Any one searching job on Datawarehousing / Business Objects

Hi

Does any one of our member searching job on Datawarehousing / Business Objects ? If so, please share your experience. It would be great help and appreciated.

None..Surprising to see

nm wrote:None..Surprising to see :cry:

None jobs that's why!

Really, don't bother just yet, everyone's outsourcing offshore to India at the moment ironically, when that goes tits up and it definitely will the market will pick up here.

Wanderer wrote:

nm wrote:None..Surprising to see

None jobs that's why!

Really, don't bother just yet, everyone's outsourcing offshore to India at the moment ironically, when that goes tits up and it definitely will the market will pick up here.

Perhaps call centre work is the way to go for people in India? I phoned up my bank yesterday and spoke to someone in India, phoned up Singapore Airlines to see if i could bring my flight forward and i spoke to someone in India again, told to phone back the next day and i spoke to...another Indian! My old work place actually set up a dedicated call centre in India too, in Mumbai, shortly before the bombings over there.

meats wrote:

Wanderer wrote:

nm wrote:None..Surprising to see :cry:

None jobs that's why!

Really, don't bother just yet, everyone's outsourcing offshore to India at the moment ironically, when that goes tits up and it definitely will the market will pick up here.

Perhaps call centre work is the way to go for people in India? I phoned up my bank yesterday and spoke to someone in India, phoned up Singapore Airlines to see if i could bring my flight forward and i spoke to someone in India again, told to phone back the next day and i spoke to...another Indian! My old work place actually set up a dedicated call centre in India too, in Mumbai, shortly before the bombings over there.

In times like this the powers that be want to pay peanuts, and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys I'm afraid - first law of offshoring.

The place I was just at had some great guys, Indian, good guys knew their stuff (Oracle), now they've been binned and replaced by numpties physically located in India and they are total crap, u have to speak on the phone and with them and without face-to-face contact, Northern accents, it's a freaking nightmare.

I've seen this circle so many times, it's some daft fukers idea to get cheap Indians, that turns crap so get everyone back quick! Too late, everyone's fuked off somewhere else so want more money so that lasts a while before the cost cutting offshoring idea comes around again with the next lot of graduate clever-shites....

The Consolation of Philosophy - read it...

hi Wanderer,

I beg to differ with you here.

There is no universal rule in life. I have met some of these people you call "monkeys" who get paid peanuts, but they are 10 times brighter than some other people, who get way more than peanuts.

Sometimes its just circumstances which force you to keep jobs which pay peanuts, but that does not necessarily mean you are a monkey.

Of course there are incompetent people everywhere, and its no exception here, you will find all kinds.

Well i know I have moved far from the topic nm was discussing, but then I had to put in my 2 cents here.

Well IMHO too, no offense.

Regards

InUkOnHsmp wrote:hi Wanderer,

I beg to differ with you here.

There is no universal rule in life. I have met some of these people you call "monkeys" who get paid peanuts, but they are 10 times brighter than some other people, who get way more than peanuts.

Sometimes its just circumstances which force you to keep jobs which pay peanuts, but that does not necessarily mean you are a monkey.

Of course there are incompetent people everywhere, and its no exception here, you will find all kinds.

Well i know I have moved far from the topic nm was discussing, but then I had to put in my 2 cents here.

Well IMHO too, no offense.

Regards

If u read I did say the Oracle guys (Indian) I dealt with face to face here in UK where A1 guys, top of their game.

The ones 'offshore' ie in india have been universally crap, because they are cheap. No cos they are Indian per se it's just cos they r cheap.

And in that scenario u pay peanuts, u get monkeys, of that there is no doubt.

This is what will happen, 100% sure, everyone will get pissed of with the cheap incompetents and start re-engaging not only Brits but Indians/HSMP/WP guys here too. It's a cycle. I've been in IT for eeek a long time and contracting since 1994, and I have seen this cycle turn and turn...

Let's get cheap crap in, oh no it's terrible, get the clever guys back in, oh that's good, let's relax, oh no it's costing a lot, get rid of the good guys and get cheap offshore guys in, oh no it's terrible....

Read Boethius, really....

Wanderer wrote:
And in that scenario u pay peanuts, u get monkeys, of that there is no doubt.

This is what will happen, 100% sure, everyone will get pissed of with the cheap incompetents and start re-engaging not only Brits but Indians/HSMP/WP guys here too. It's a cycle. I've been in IT for eeek a long time and contracting since 1994, and I have seen this cycle turn and turn...

Loads of rubbish assumption. I too am in IT from ages now and I have worked myself in India for years. 80% of them hired by good MNC's are quality people which is SAME as in UK.

And why is it bothering you if the company are happy with we Indian. They do that when they are exhauted with quality people in UK/US. The fact we Indian are in this business from a decade now and still growing is enough proof that there's quality out there. There is nothing that guys in UK/US can do that an Indian cannot and hence we deserve same quality life as you get. So let the cycle go on.......

gainvidya wrote:

Wanderer wrote:
And in that scenario u pay peanuts, u get monkeys, of that there is no doubt.

This is what will happen, 100% sure, everyone will get pissed of with the cheap incompetents and start re-engaging not only Brits but Indians/HSMP/WP guys here too. It's a cycle. I've been in IT for eeek a long time and contracting since 1994, and I have seen this cycle turn and turn...

And why is it bothering you if the company are happy with we Indian. They do that when they are exhauted with quality people in UK/US.

They do it when they want to cut costs.

If you read back where does it say I have problems with Indians? The problem I have is with cheap outsourcing be it Indian now or Chinese in the future. Also I remain fully confident the tide will turn and next time the offshoring will probably be Chinese cos they will be cheaper then India in the near future, then I expect you'll be here complaining with me!

They do it when they want to cut costs.

I couldn't agree more with this opinion. It has got nothing to do with race or nationality. It's the outsourcing businesses that are to blame. They are only after money, all they are concerned about is their profit margins. I have seen it happen firsthand. When they were trying to build relationship with their customer they provided well experienced, top of the draw guys in the project. The customer was very happy and offshored more work. Then after a couple of years once the relationship was established they (the outsourcing company) pulled the rug from under, forced new inexperienced people with questionable communication skills to take on the jobs that the experienced guys did. No awards for guessing what happened next. The project was screwed, client became unhappy, sacked the offshore team and had to bring in costly contractors here to finish the project.

SKUK wrote:

They do it when they want to cut costs.

I couldn't agree more with this opinion. It has got nothing to do with race or nationality. It's the outsourcing businesses that are to blame. They are only after money, all they are concerned about is their profit margins. I have seen it happen firsthand. When they were trying to build relationship with their customer they provided well experienced, top of the draw guys in the project. The customer was very happy and offshored more work. Then after a couple of years once the relationship was established they (the outsourcing company) pulled the rug from under, forced new inexperienced people with questionable communication skills to take on the jobs that the experienced guys did. No awards for guessing what happened next. The project was screwed, client became unhappy, sacked the offshore team and had to bring in costly contractors here to finish the project.

Exactly! And me being in this business so long I've seen it happen time and time again.

SKUK wrote:

They do it when they want to cut costs.

I couldn't agree more with this opinion. It has got nothing to do with race or nationality. It's the outsourcing businesses that are to blame. They are only after money, all they are concerned about is their profit margins. I have seen it happen firsthand. When they were trying to build relationship with their customer they provided well experienced, top of the draw guys in the project. The customer was very happy and offshored more work. Then after a couple of years once the relationship was established they (the outsourcing company) pulled the rug from under, forced new inexperienced people with questionable communication skills to take on the jobs that the experienced guys did. No awards for guessing what happened next. The project was screwed, client became unhappy, sacked the offshore team and had to bring in costly contractors here to finish the project.

I cant disagree with this more. You must be picking up 1 out of 1000 case. The count of number of IT projects offshored to India is increasing and not decreasing it does not matter whatever the reason it be.

gainvidya wrote:

SKUK wrote:

They do it when they want to cut costs.

I couldn't agree more with this opinion. It has got nothing to do with race or nationality. It's the outsourcing businesses that are to blame. They are only after money, all they are concerned about is their profit margins. I have seen it happen firsthand. When they were trying to build relationship with their customer they provided well experienced, top of the draw guys in the project. The customer was very happy and offshored more work. Then after a couple of years once the relationship was established they (the outsourcing company) pulled the rug from under, forced new inexperienced people with questionable communication skills to take on the jobs that the experienced guys did. No awards for guessing what happened next. The project was screwed, client became unhappy, sacked the offshore team and had to bring in costly contractors here to finish the project.

I cant disagree with this more. You must be picking up 1 out of 1000 case. The count of number of projects offshoring thier IT work to India in increasing NOT decreasing it does not matter whatever the reason be.

Yes it is increasing - hence the paucity of the job market in UK.

What we are all saying is this is driven purely by cost-cutting, replacing experienced and knowledgeable UK and UK-based staff (Yes, Indians and others) with inexperienced cheap labour in India now, China next time....

I've been contracting since 1994, and I'm now on the fifth turn of this wheel, BT have canned a lot of contractors here in UK, and outsourced it to TechM, and the rates TechM are offering in UK for same job are under half the going rate. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. This is only the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure the offshore people are paid much much less.

So what happens? Well like we are saying, QoS goes down, people get pissed off talking to let's say somewhat clueless staff offshore and won't even call, I've seen it time and time again.

I am sure there are talented people offshore, don't get me wrong, but u cannot deny the reason for going offshore is cost in hard times, and when things pick up - cost becomes less important as people want QoS, so the wheel turns. Read Boethius.

I cant disagree with this more.

Good. You are thinking like a businessman then .

The count of number of IT projects offshored to India is increasing and not decreasing it does not matter whatever the reason it be

Of course it is increasing and at a phenomenal rate that too. Otherwise the company I cited in my story wouldn't grow from a turnover of a few hundred million dollars to few billion dollars as of last count, that too in just a few years. Oxymoron you might think.

I did say the work starts off well. But then it peters out. Why? Because greed takes over and consideration is given only to money. Quality and customer satisfaction takes a back seat. In fact they are thrown out of the window. I am not saying you shouldn't give a chance to youngsters and those less experienced. But they need to be trained and groomed before they become ready to face the music and put on the frontline. But companies don't do that anymore. Because that costs money and time. Nobody is willing to wait that long. All they want is these poor souls to become "billable" as soon as possible and their profit margins to increase. They replace the same role that a bright and experienced lad does with a noob with no adequate training at the same day rate. This means they can laugh all the way to the bank with more money as they pay a pittance to the novice while the original guy is probably drawing a huge salary. Admit it, it's not easy for a graduate starter in India to immediately pick up the culture, communication and work techniques of countries like US, UK, particularly those from rural and small town background. This takes time and gradual exposure to pick up. But these guys are not given that chance. IMHO this is where it goes wrong. The quality takes a hit and the foreign customers start whinging.

But still there are thousands of bright professionals in India. It is because of them along with the cost cutting measures that firms here undertake and marketing that the service provider companies based in India are doing well.

My wife's HR dept has been relocated in India can you believe that !
After some years I think UK will just be a finacial capital and all the manufacturing ( none any more ) and services will be outsourced. So we have to plan what type of work we have to do in future or our children have to do..

Unfortunately,whatever can be outsourced,will be outsourced .other things will be automated.!!!!!.I was surprised to visit my friendly neighbourhood bank HS** the other day..All 20 odd staff were replaced by ATM/Cash deposit/Cheque deposit machine..I had a query,so i picked up the phone from the brach (as there were no humans around to assist me)..And the call went straight to India!!!!
I agree with other posters that as soon as the vendor gains confidence from client,the experienced guys are replaced with new recruites.now,having invested huge time and money in this vendor,client cannot overniht switch to a new vendor/take operations onsite..This is not a story which i heard,i was at on site .One day i found that my whole team at off shore was replaced by newbees and i had to train them all over again.

Its looks the vehicle travel around all the way except the destination..

back to my question, mate do you have any idea on that.?

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