Entry Clearance Manager Review of Declined Application

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:24 am

Further to a message I posted yesterday regarding my wife's application for a Spouse Visa (http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 129#315129) I have a few more questions which I'm hoping someone can help me with:

1. Is it correct that under the Immigration Rules if an application is declined by an Entry Clearance Officer that an Entry Clearance Manager has to review it to ensure a fair decision has been made?

2. If the above is true, should it be mentioned anywhere on the refusal letter to explain that it has been reviewed by an Entry Clearance Manager?

3. On the basis that the Entry Clearance Officer overlooked the fact my wife will be working full-time on her return to the UK, and that an Entry Clearance Manager has not reviewed the application, we are looking at the best way to appeal to overturn the decision. I understand the "official" appeal process can be a lengthy process. Are we able to re-send evidence of her employment here in the UK along with a supporting letter to either the UK Border Agency or to the visa application centre in South Africa where she applied for the visa in the hope that her application will be reviewed without the need to go through the official appeal process? It would seem silly to have to go through the official process which could take months for something which could be a small oversight on the ECO's behalf!!

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:14 pm

madhouse92 wrote:Firstly here's the background information......my South African wife's application has been refused because the ECO wasn't satisfied that we can maintain ourselves without recourse to public funds. Granted my account is in overdraft, but within it's authorised overdraft limit. However, from our perspective the ECO has missed out some important factors when making their decision:

1) My account was Â£4k overdrawn but have managed to reduce by Â£1.8k within 2 months because of the surplus income I have at the end of each month.
2) My expenditure never exceeds my income.
3) My property is in positive equity to the value of approx Â£15K.

Now the most important factor which the ECO appears to have not taken into account is the fact that my wife has a full-time job position waiting for her on return to the UK. Evidence of this was sent with the application form by means of an employment letter from her employer. The job is in fact the same job she worked at for 12 months while here in the UK on her working holiday visa. One of the reasons we reckon the ECO didn't take this into account was because when my wife opened the package with the returned documents, all her supporting evidence was still paper clipped together in the same order they were sent off. Whilst all of mine were "slung" back into the folder in an inorderly fashion. Now unless the ECO was ultra efficient and put her supporting evidence back in the same order, then got fed up and simply put mine back in any old order, our guess is that the ECO only noticed the overdraft on my bank statements and saw that as reason enough to decline the application.

Our intention is to complete the appeal form along with the following new evidence:

- Bank statement to show that my overdraft has been reduced by Â£1.8k over the past 2 months.
- An income/expenditure sheet to show my monthly outgoings are less than my monthly income.
- Last mortgage statement and a property valuation to show I have postive equity.
- A second letter of employment detailing salary, working hours etc to prove my wife has a full-time job on her return to the UK.
- A second income/expenditure sheet to show that along with my wife's proposed salary we will have approx Â£1.4k remaining at the end of the month.

Our plan is to send all this directly to Pretoria where tha application was originally processed in the hope that an Entry Clearance Manager will review the application.

Now this is where I'd like some advise from anyone who has done this:

1) In your view would the above new evidence be sufficient to overturn the decision?
2) Is it common for an Entry Clearance Manager to overturn a refused application?
3) Does anyone know roughly how long we would have to wait to hear what the Entry Clearance Managers decision is?

Any help/advise would be apprciated.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:20 pm

APL1.7 ECM review wrote:On receipt of the grounds of appeal, the ECM must immediately review the refusal, taking into account the grounds of appeal and any additional supporting documentation.

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:50 pm

Vinny

Firstly apologies for not keeping to the same thread. I got told off in some of the forums I've used in the past for not starting new questions in a new thread, so I assumed the same here.

Secondly thanks for your rely. The information on that page is most useful.

Lastly, my wife went to see a company called Passport Agency in Durban. There she was told that as well as completing the appeal form and handing it into the visa office in Pretoria, we could also write a "pre-appeal" letter and fax it to Pretoria along with the new supporting documentation. Reason for this is because Pretoria is a 6 hour drive from Durban (on a good day), and by faxing a "pre-appeal" letter and the supporting documentation it's possible an Entry Clearance Manager will review the decision quicker. Is this something you've heard of before?

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:58 pm

Yes. I think that's a good idea. You can ask the EC/ECM to reconsider the refusal, based on overlooked information. However, don't forget to appeal in-time, if necessary.

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:13 pm

Vinny - Thanks again for the reply.

Good to hear that you think it's a good idea. I think my wife was just worried she was being fobbed off with information that would be a waste of time. I guess like with most independent visa agencies you only get what you pay for, and seeing as she walked in and asked for some free advice it may not have been the best advise.

hmm · Post by **hmm** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:13 am

Best to ask the ECM to reconsider the refusal and also lodge the appeal in time. I have heard that ECM don't usually over turn the decision on settlement applications. Best of luck anyway. we have done that with my mother in law's settlement visa application. It is worth a try.

Don't forget you can also submit another application if you wish.

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:20 am

But surely if the ECO has not taken into account or even completely missed out on looking at my wife's supporting evidence, which we feel makes a huge difference to the "financial" side of things, the ECM would have no choice but to overturn the decision??

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:51 pm

Just to let you know that it looks like the embassy saw the error of their ways because an ECM has overturned the decision to decline my wife's Spouse Visa without us even doing anything. She was on her way to the visa centre to lodge an appeal and received a phone call from the embassy to say her application has been approved. She's sent her passport off to them today be stamped and then she'll be coming home. Hopefully in time for Christmas!!

hmm · Post by **hmm** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:42 pm

congratulation.
so she hasn't even applied for reconsideration?
Is that mean ECM looks at every visa rfusal application, as part of the application process?

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:09 pm

No, she didn't apply for reconsideration. I spent the weekend writing a letter and gathering new supporting evidence here in the UK. My wife was doing the same in South Africa. She compiled a folder on Monday to take to the VFS office in Durban this morning. Got halfway there when she got the call from the embassy informing her that her application had been reconsidered and accepted. I spoke to my local MP's assistant who has had some dealings with visas and she reckons under the immigration rules an ECM should review all declined cases to ensure a fair decision was made. Whether that's true or not I don't know. Can't say I found much on the UK Border Agency website to that effect. Still, not gonna complain!!

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:46 am

Perhaps they read this thread?

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:31 pm

lol.....erm, i assume you were joking with that reply Vinny??!!

junai · Post by **junai** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:41 pm

You'd think the ECM would review refusals before they issue the refusal notice. At the very least it would save them time and money in letters and phone calls.

Incidentally madhouse - my fiance and i are applying through VFS in Durban - when you filled out your online application were there only appointment dates available for the current calender month? I'm trying to get an appointment for Jan but all the dates for 2010 are greyed out.

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:01 pm

I agree. Getting an ECM to review it first would also save a lot of pain and agony. My wife was distraught when she read the refusal letter. At least common sense prevailed.

Regarding the online application, we didn't actually do ours online. We did it via an agency in Hillcrest called Passport Agency. A woman there called Sharon was most helpful and well worth the fee we paid. Helped us collect what we needed, completed the application form with us and presented it all neatly in a folder for us to take to the VFS in Durban.

junai · Post by **junai** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:39 pm

[quote="madhouse92"]I agree. Getting an ECM to review it first would also save a lot of pain and agony. My wife was distraught when she read the refusal letter. At least common sense prevailed.quote]

Absolutely. The same thing happened to us when my fiance applied for the working holiday visa back in 2007. They refused it having not looked at all the evidence we had supplied (and confusing the amount she earnt per hour as a monthly rate - surely common sense would have told them that no-one earns Â£1.50 a month). The lo and behold a couple of months later they called her out of the blue and told her the visa had been approved. Part of me was slightly dissapointed as i was looking forward to savaging their initial refusal in court.

Lot's of unnecesary heart-ache was caused and it cost us Â£800 as we stupidly decided that she should come over as a tourist whilst we worked on the appeal. Needless to say she was intercepted in Dubai and returned to SA. To top it all off the security staff in Dubai airport treated her like scum.

All in all the whole episode was one of the worst experiences of our lives. I really hope this spouse's visa goes smoothly as i don't think i could do through all that again.

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:15 pm

It does seem the genuine people that want to be together get it difficult. Just glad the decision on my wife's application got overturned a few days after it was declined and before we appealed etc. She sent her passport off to be stamped yesterday so we're hoping it will be returned by tomorrow/early next week for her to fly home for xmas. Been almost 2 months since I've seen her last!!

Hope all goes well for you.

junai · Post by **junai** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:53 pm

Just out of interest madhouse - which marriage certificate did you submit? The full unabridged or just the manual certificate (the one hand written on the day of the wedding?

We're only going to submit the manual one (because we will be applying two days after the wedding and it takes 12 weeks to obtain the unabridged one from home affairs).

madhouse92 · Post by **madhouse92** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:33 pm

We only submitted the manual handwritten marriage certificate. Like you say, the unabridged one would have taken too long for us as well.

mattfrombann · Post by **mattfrombann** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:00 pm

It would seem that little has changed in Pretoria. Two years ago my wife was granted a settlement visa, but they initially refused her son in a refusal notice that contained one false statement and a contradiction. An immediate appeal was lodged and we deluged them with a bundle of additional information to counter their reason for refusal. They stonewalled by claiming that they had reviewed the application and, bizarrely, that we had not appealed. We enlisted the help of our MP who was also mystified as to why they had not taken note of the new evidence. So a hearing date was set and our MP continued to make representations, eventually right up to the minister himself. Months dragged by and suddenly , about two weeks before the hearing date, we were notified by Pretoria that they had overturned the original decision and apologised (their first line of defence against compensation claims) for any inconvenience caused. It was, they said due "to a backlog" and steps were being taken to reduce it. Yeah right. So a traumatised child joined me and his tearful mum in the UK, but I did feel slightly cheated at not having ECO argument eviscerated at a hearing. The moral is clear, get your MP on your side from day one. Wife and son have now ILR but I will never forgive Pretoria for the totally unecessary trauma they inflicted on a child.

prettypolitical · Post by **prettypolitical** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:25 pm

mattfrombann

totally agree with you about Pretoria they did the same with my family....and put my children through trauma, even had one of them under the doctors for various things not to mention they put me on anti depressants and diagnosed me as having severe reactive depression!!!.....the months i had going through that can only be compared to what i imagine hell to be like...

After my determination, Pretoria reviewed their decision and YES they overturned it!!!....

I also felt a little annoyed at not having the hearing ha ha ha

I was all geared uop too, even bought a new suit!

Zaryaab · Post by **Zaryaab** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:50 pm

Dear PretyPolicitcal, My husband appeal is withdrawn by ECM yesterday. Can u please tell what will happen next. How long would it take for HO British High Commission to contact him. He is in Pakistan. Will Gerry contact him. The AIT said that British high commission will contact him. How lengthy is the further proceedure. thanks

prettypolitical · Post by **prettypolitical** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:37 pm

Not sure with it being Pakistan, i do that people have been waiting months for their passports stamped....Batleykhan will be able to answer that question i am sure....why dont you start a fresh post and he may answer for you....sorry

naseer78 · Post by **naseer78** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:42 pm

batleykhan or vinny prettypolitical can you answer zaryaab's question because i am in the same situation plz!

thankyou!

lubzy · Post by **lubzy** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:24 am

Hi, if you read around pages 234-236 of the Spousal Visa - Pakistan thread you will find some timelines provided by people whose refusals were recently overturned.

Mine was an allowed appeal and it took over 3 months to receive the call letter, assisted by MP intervention. It appears as though the process is quicker where the BHC itself overturns a decision.

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