British or English ?

hello,

since I became British last month, I came across few website where i was asked for my nationality, but they dont have the British as an option, they have English, Welsh, Scotish, .... for example www.wayn.com.

I would like to mention that i am British beside my original nationality, and i dont feel right saying I am English... (british living in London is English?)

any ideas?

Clearly that website is not very knowledgeable about nationality in this part of the world.

I have used the facility on their website to send them a message to point out the error of their ways.

Is this a common problem? Such websites tend to have a drop-down list of countries, rather than nationalities, and United Kingdom would tend to be there.

Thanks John,

although i would like to register as an English citizen as well as British (if possible),
Since I got my British citiznship , lots of my friends and family abroad, kept on saying to me, "CONGRATULATIONS ON BECOMING ENGLISH ", i just gave up on explaining to them.

I've often wondered about this....

England, Scotland and Wales are countries, except Wales is actually a Principality! Anyway, the more I think about it, Britain is a Union or just the name of the Island! United Kingdom (inc NI) is definately a Union of Countries, much like the Soviet Union was, having a Russian partner we discuss this often!

If we accept Wales as not a real country (donning flak jacket now) cos of it's principality status, that really leaves England and Scotland, who joined in Union in 1707 or something like that.

Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain but is part of the British Isles, but they consider themselves British, religion and politics apart.

So, I find it hard to find evidence of a Country called 'Britain' and therefore a Nationality to match called 'British'. I think 'British' is really 'United Kingdomian'!

I'm off to Google this now!

Steve

If we accept Wales as not a real country (donning flak jacket now)

I think Offa's Dyke needs strengthening a bit ... for your protection!

I don't think that new immigrants can call themselves English (unless they are from an English stock like white Australians). English means belonging the English (i.e Anglo-Saxon) race. Immigrants and their descendants can call themselves British but not English.

Thanks

Britain is like USSR??? so what happens when England and Scotland gets their own indepednece and UK disolves? will we get to choose which country we need to settle in o? or we will be kicked out? (we=those ntauralised as British)

K2004 wrote:Thanks

Britain is like USSR??? so what happens when England and Scotland gets their own indepednece and UK disolves? will we get to choose which country we need to settle in o? or we will be kicked out? (we=those ntauralised as British)

You can have Wales!

It is intersting though, the legal standing of 'Britain' and 'British'....

Steve

I think I was largely correct!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain

Steve

Quite right... so the most relevant option here would be eg... Indian/ SA/ etc... or options permit... British Indian?...

tvt wrote:I don't think that new immigrants can call themselves English (unless they are from an English stock like white Australians). English means belonging the English (i.e Anglo-Saxon) race. Immigrants and their descendants can call themselves British but not English.

You know when I was a kid in the late 60's I well remember a busload of Indians arriving at my school. They were from Uganda I think, when Amin had one of his purges....

Anyway, all these kids were put into class 4I, 'I' for 'Immigrant' - Christ imagine the fuss over that nowadays!

Another thing is the cutural aspects of 'where you are from' as against 'where you belong'....

In the UK, we tend to associate nationality to place of birth, for example, my two youngest kids where born in Scotland (me and the rest of the kids are English). They are my 'Jock-kids'! Also one of my collegues was born in Germany (father in Army) so we always referred to him as 'German' depsite him being as British as they come. Prince Philip is Phil the Greek cos he was born in Corfu!

Conversly Russians consider their ethnicity as their nationality. My gf is Russian but her mother was born in Kazhakstan but of Russian ethnicity, so she considers herself Russian. The Soviets did what Cromwell did to Ireland and relocated Russians throughout the lesser Republics.

Kazakhstan has the Kazakhs, the indiginoeus Arab/Turkish race, but most are of Russian stock now, and depite their place of birth, are Russian. If a child is born even in USA to Russian parents, the child is considered Russian and not American.

Interestng topic!

Steve

I don't think that I will be able to call myself English when I naturalise though I am white of German ethnicity I'll always remain an Argie Bargie.

tvt wrote:I don't think that I will be able to call myself English when I naturalise though I am white of German ethnicity I'll always remain an Argie Bargie.

You could say ur Patagonian and therefore Welsh!

Bet you've had some stick over the last few England Argentina matches! OWEN!!!

Steve

At the end of the day it does not affect the price of fish - if you call yourself British or English

dont forget that you are European as well, which means you could be French or Belgian or German ...!!!

Wanderer wrote:
Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain but is part of the British Isles, but they consider themselves British, religion and politics apart.

The people of Northern Ireland *are* British.

Apart from the self-identified Irish minority community in the province (many of whom are still British enough to carry United Kingdom passports, for a variety of reasons).

So, I find it hard to find evidence of a Country called 'Britain' and therefore a Nationality to match called 'British'. I think 'British' is really 'United Kingdomian'!

Unless the context otherwise indicates, the term "British" generally refers to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, together with its Dependencies and Territories.

K2004 wrote:Thanks

Britain is like USSR??? so what happens when England and Scotland gets their own indepednece and UK disolves? will we get to choose which country we need to settle in o? or we will be kicked out? (we=those ntauralised as British)

The United Kingdom is not going to dissolve anytime soon. There is a difference between people in England and Scotland (and elsewhere) flirting with the idea, and actually voting in sufficient numbers to end the Union.

Hypothetically, if Scotland became independent, and the rest of the United Kingdom stayed in place, then it is likely that the British citizenship of those acquiring Scottish citizenship at independence would be revoked. The exception would likely be for those who retained ties by way of birth or descent to another part of the United Kingdom, a Dependency or Overseas Territory.

Wanderer wrote:I've often wondered about this....


Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain but is part of the British Isles, but they consider themselves British, religion and politics apart.



Steve

Actually, if you ask them, they consider themselves Irish.

Lynn, I don't think you would get that answer from Ian Paisley! Whilst the Protestants consider themselves British, a number of Roman Catholics consider themselves Irish.

What is that city called? Londonderry or Derry .... depending upon a person's religion.

John wrote:Lynn, I don't think you would get that answer from Ian Paisley! Whilst the Protestants consider themselves British, a number of Roman Catholics consider themselves Irish.

Quite a number of Roman Catholics from Northern Ireland possess British passports, even if they consider themselves at least partially "Irish".

And (anecdotally) there are still quite a few people from Republic of Ireland who still use British subject passports. Most people born in the Republic of Ireland before 1949 can apply for a British subject passport, if they are not a British citizen some other way.

Shouldn't it be looked at from the other way round.

Almost all in Northern Ireland are or are eligible to be Irish citizens.

The United Kingdom consists of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Great Britain refers to the larger of the 2 islands of the (British) Isles group off the North-West coast of continental Europe. By inference, lesser Britain means Brittany in north-west France.

Before 1922, those in the entire island which has Ireland on it were referred to as Irish. Since 1922, the only difference for those in the northern part of the island is that formally, they are not part of the legal state of Ireland as recognised by most nations.

But they are not British either - of course, they may refer to themselves as whatever they like, British or Irish, or as a UK citizen (which, of course, would be the legally accurate description).

tt wrote: But they are not British either - of course, they may refer to themselves as whatever they like, British or Irish, or as a UK citizen (which, of course, would be the legally accurate description).

The legally accurate description is a *British* citizen.

Again, yes, from the Westminster angle, as defined in the legislation.
But then all British subjects are, using that angle, British of sorts, even if originating from India or Malaysia. You can take that point of view, but I don't know how close to reality it would be outside the context of Westminster.
Point here is that almost all in Northern Ireland are or are eligible to be Irish citizens. If some of them with British ancestry wish to be called British, so be it. I suppose it doesn't matter if it's true or not. Those calling themselves Irish would not face that dilemma.

tt wrote: Point here is that almost all in Northern Ireland are or are eligible to be Irish citizens. If some of them with British ancestry wish to be called British, so be it. I suppose it doesn't matter if it's true or not. Those calling themselves Irish would not face that dilemma.

The fact that the Republic of Ireland chooses to grant citizenship rather indiscriminately to those connected with territory beyond its borders is irrelevant (any sovereign nation is free to do this if it wishes).

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. And as it's part of the same country as Great Britain => then the people of Northern Ireland have the same nationality.

if northern irish people can call themsevles British, even when they are not part of great Britain, so being british, can i call myself English?that was my first question....