Immigration Cap

MJNair wrote:Found this here.. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 73/173.pdf

This is a publication by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights on the HSMP judicial review.

Most of the comments in this document relates to the Human Rights violation based on 'I intend to make UK my main home'. However, when you get a chance, please read through section 4 on page 11.

56. We recommend that the Government accept that where a change to the Immigration Rules engages a Convention right (as here), it does not have an unfettered power to make changes to the Rules, and that where a change would lead to an interference with a right such as the right to respect for home and family life, the requirement that any such interference be in accordance with the law requires that such changes should be prospective only. We also recommend that changes to the Immigration Rules should always be accompanied by a statement as to the compatibility of the changes with the ECHR.

I totally agreed with you MJNair. The problem is, apart from you, no one feeling the greviance of the matter. This is not a blah blah discussion. Need to understand that you have to formulate a forum now. If you are thinking that HSMP forum will help you, then you are wrong. I have taken the membership of HSMP Forum, but they are least concerned about the Tier1 Migrants. It is now we should start working hands-in-hands...Otherwise, the situation after Aprill 2011 will be really worst...and I mean really worst, specially in case of extension applications....

I would like to request all the experts on this forum to formulate a strategy as how to tackle this... I suppose we need to start our working right now, as once they will announce the policy and some one wants to start the legal battle like HSMP Forum, then it might required quite a bit of time to win one....

How do you people know that TIer 1 extensions will be subjected to the cap after April 2011? Perhaps what the MAC were talking about was that anyone on Tier 2 or some other visa who switched into Tier 1 (switching from Tier 2 and extending their leave under Tier 1) would be subjected to the cap.

If there was a cap on Tier 1 or 2 extensions, then people would NOT be wanting to move here which means it will leave this country high and dry and with a reputation of not welcoming people. If people are not welcome to live here, obviously, they are not welcome to visit, so there goes the Tourism industry.

My advice to any young person going into university and then wanting to possibly move to the UK should be to get a PHd before coming over. That way, you know you'll be covered regarding points.

I do not think cap would be applied on extension applicants. HO will then again commit same mistake which they did prior to HSMP JR. If they apply changes retrospectively then it will be challenged in court.

zahid.ali.anwar wrote:

MJNair wrote:Found this here.. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 73/173.pdf

This is a publication by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights on the HSMP judicial review.

Most of the comments in this document relates to the Human Rights violation based on 'I intend to make UK my main home'. However, when you get a chance, please read through section 4 on page 11.

56. We recommend that the Government accept that where a change to the Immigration Rules engages a Convention right (as here), it does not have an unfettered power to make changes to the Rules, and that where a change would lead to an interference with a right such as the right to respect for home and family life, the requirement that any such interference be in accordance with the law requires that such changes should be prospective only. We also recommend that changes to the Immigration Rules should always be accompanied by a statement as to the compatibility of the changes with the ECHR.

I totally agreed with you MJNair. The problem is, apart from you, no one feeling the greviance of the matter. This is not a blah blah discussion. Need to understand that you have to formulate a forum now. If you are thinking that HSMP forum will help you, then you are wrong. I have taken the membership of HSMP Forum, but they are least concerned about the Tier1 Migrants. It is now we should start working hands-in-hands...Otherwise, the situation after Aprill 2011 will be really worst...and I mean really worst, specially in case of extension applications....

I would like to request all the experts on this forum to formulate a strategy as how to tackle this... I suppose we need to start our working right now, as once they will announce the policy and some one wants to start the legal battle like HSMP Forum, then it might required quite a bit of time to win one....

fair point.. people are all clever.. each words are important

The MAC will look at capping extensions because the target is reducing net migration. So getting more people to leave has the same effect as reducing new entrants.

Losing hard working, talented, tax paying tier 1s is clearly the worst option for the UK, but it is good for big businesses that want to control and profit from migrant workers.

Big businesses have a lot of lobbying power and will want to protect tier 2. Tier 1s can work for anyone (or themselves) so they erode the advantage that sponsors get through tier 2.

The whole debate (and MAC study) will move towards comparing the relative worth of both routes. Which route should be hit more by the caps?

Tier 2 sponsors will lobby hard and want the destruction of tier 1 including extensions, if it means they are less affected by the cap.

It is vitally important that tier 1s have a voice and show that they are better qualified, earn more, pay more taxes and help UK business in general and not just the tiny proportion of companies that are sponsors.
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GSOtodd wrote:How do you people know that TIer 1 extensions will be subjected to the cap after April 2011? Perhaps what the MAC were talking about was that anyone on Tier 2 or some other visa who switched into Tier 1 (switching from Tier 2 and extending their leave under Tier 1) would be subjected to the cap.

I see your point, but here's what they are saying:

"It will apply to inflows into and FROM WITHIN Tier 1 from both within and outside the UK."

This "from within" suggests, in my opinion, that they are specifically talking about Tier 1 extension cases, not switchers into this category.

GSOtodd wrote:How do you people know that TIer 1 extensions will be subjected to the cap after April 2011? Perhaps what the MAC were talking about was that anyone on Tier 2 or some other visa who switched into Tier 1 (switching from Tier 2 and extending their leave under Tier 1) would be subjected to the cap.

If there was a cap on Tier 1 or 2 extensions, then people would NOT be wanting to move here which means it will leave this country high and dry and with a reputation of not welcoming people. If people are not welcome to live here, obviously, they are not welcome to visit, so there goes the Tourism industry.

My advice to any young person going into university and then wanting to possibly move to the UK should be to get a PHd before coming over. That way, you know you'll be covered regarding points.

Not yet indeed.

Certainly, there is no cap on Tier 1 extensions till September 2010 since that's when the consultation of MAC ends. However, based on the results of this consultation, the government will take a call on whether or not to pplay cap on Tier 1 application from April 2011. Hope that makes it clear!

Hi Zahid

i Disagree with you on this

ArgieBee wrote:The MAC will look at capping extensions because the target is reducing net migration. So getting more people to leave has the same effect as reducing new entrants.

Losing hard working, talented, tax paying tier 1s is clearly the worst option for the UK, but it is good for big businesses that want to control and profit from migrant workers.

Big businesses have a lot of lobbying power and will want to protect tier 2. Tier 1s can work for anyone (or themselves) so they erode the advantage that sponsors get through tier 2.

The whole debate (and MAC study) will move towards comparing the relative worth of both routes. Which route should be hit more by the caps?

Tier 2 sponsors will lobby hard and want the destruction of tier 1 including extensions, if it means they are less affected by the cap.

It is vitally important that tier 1s have a voice and show that they are better qualified, earn more, pay more taxes and help UK business in general and not just the tiny proportion of companies that are sponsors.
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This is strange. Your point seems very well articulate but I strongly disagree with you.
I believe that the most sensible approach to this issue is:
- no cap on extension for tier1s and tier2s (legitimate expectation, human rights...)
- cap (or even a total ban) on new tier1s (G): if a tier1 comes in the UK to take a high skilled job, he should be able to get a job as a tier2 (after the resident market labour test is passed). With Internet today, you can't really argue that you need to be in the UK to find a job.

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does anyone know what's that extra 5-points for??( for in-country applicants to score 100 points)

dev106 wrote:does anyone know what's that extra 5-points for??( for in-country applicants to score 100 points)

There will be no additional attribute to score the extra 5 points. You should score 80 points instead of 75 in the existing attributes.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

According to the above source (1:5), the government said that they will be booking into "other immigration routes and making proposals".

The question is, what are other immigration routes? I thought Tier 1 and 2 was it as far as "immigration" was concerned.

Studands (& PWS) are the biggest source of immigration.

Well, to be honest, I have a feeling that in a few years time the UK will be begging for people again, only then, people will have second thoughts about coming. This is because people have long memories and people in Non-EU countries have heard about all the non-stop changes the homeoffice imposes on skilled and highly skilled migrant workers.

I was speaking to people who live and go to school around where I graduated from in the US. They did a survey of where they would like to go if they had the opportunity to start a new life outside the US. Of course, the majority said they didn't want to leave the US (mainly because the US is all they know and its home...fair enough). The ones that did wrote in Canada. Canada had the highest picks. Second were places in South America and Australia. There were others but NO ONE picked the UK or Ireland.

My old tutor/advisor at my University said that this was mainly due to weather and the fact that migrant workers face so much uncertainity when they arrive in the UK. Migrants want to know that they have a chance to start a new life and progress. Not be subjected to endless finger pointing and changes to rules that affect people who have been here contributing for some time.

Please don't say that I'm putting down the UK because I'm VERY grateful for it allowing me to start a new life and gave me a chance when my own country didn't, due to the early/mid 2000s recession. However, I don't think the UK needs to be changing rules on people who have been IN the country and have been progressing. It isn't fair. I don't care if you're in Tier 1 or 2. People who are in Tier 2 are just as skilled and valuable as Tier 1.

If you read the MAC document, section 3.3 - Issues & Limitations, their goal is to limit the number of migrants to tens of thousands during the current govt run. i.e before 2015 & this will be based on the data available by April 2013 which essentially gives then 2.5 years to show results from 160,00 to tens of thousands (wonder what they mean by tens of thousands).
Also, they do not have data onT1 or T2 visa holders who left UK.

Shall we put together a petition to request our local MPs to request the govt not to apply the limits on the people already in a T1 or T2 visa either during the interim cap or when the permanent cap is applied?

Reducing the net immigration by sending back people already here in the UK with good jobs when they extend or apply ILR is a cruel way of implementing it. They should be able to listen to us at least on humanitarian grounds.

I totally agree with you GSOtodd...

It's totally not fair to throw the new rules on even the in-country tier-1,2 people, who got settled ....totally not fair..

God save us!!plzz

Are they really allowed to do this under legal rules, I see people winning the court cases against them. I have the feeling they will not extend the cap to extension and also increase the past income threshold for extension. they cannot afford the legal implications

Please, let me know how I can help. I'd be more than happy to help you put together a petition. I'm due for ILR in January but still, I'm concerned about people who are here and have set down roots and planning on starting families. They shouldn't have to worry about this.

So, where do we go from here. What do we need to do in order for changes not to impact people already here, even those who want to switch into another category.

I think we all have to wait until September.

Check the official entry clearance numbers on page 33:
http://uk.sitestat.com/homeoffice/rds/s ... df&ns_url=[http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/immiq110.pdf]

To cut 60,000 p.a., that is 15,000 per quarter. For 2010 quarter 1, tier 1 is 1930, tier 2 general is 2,735, tier 2 ict is 7,305, tier 1 dependents is 2540, and tier 2 dependents is 5315. Assuming tier 2 ict is not capped, stopping ALL new tier 1, tier 2 general and dependents together only gives 12,500. So the MAC can only really recommend at cap of 0 and some way of stopping extensions (or scrapping PSW).

Does anyone know.... may be slightly out of topic here...
The number of T2 CoS is capped under the interim limit.
Do you have to get a new CoS when you go for a T2 extension or can you extend your T2 visa with the CoS you got with your 1st application?

I think you need a new CoS for an extension or significant change of employment. So the cut in CoS could result in sponsors being unable to extend tier2 employees. It should be clearer in 2 weeks.

To cut 60,000 p.a., that is 15,000 per quarter. For 2010 quarter 1, tier 1 is 1930, tier 2 general is 2,735, tier 2 ict is 7,305, tier 1 dependents is 2540, and tier 2 dependents is 5315. Assuming tier 2 ict is not capped, stopping ALL new tier 1, tier 2 general and dependents together only gives 12,500. So the MAC can only really recommend at cap of 0 and some way of stopping extensions (or scrapping PSW).

I don't think that they will be stopping extensions. That would really be shooting themselves in the foot. I think the possiblility of them capping extensions is out there. Whether they do or don't remains to be seen. If so, I think they will give priority to those who need extensions as part of the cap for Tier 1 and 2. They may even give permanent residence to people under tier 1 right from the get go like they do in Australia or the US but just have a limit, and, just cap Tier 2 at the beginning and when extensionsare needed. This may be to straight forward and not enough red tape for the home office though. They don't seem to like any system that is not gagged with red tape and is too easy.

Hi,

I have applied for visa on July 02 via post for Tier 1 general. Basically I am switching from ICT tier 2 to tier 1 and I have exactly 95 points only. Will the new change in the rule from july 19th will effect my application which was submitted on July 02. Please let me know your suggestion.

Many Thanks
Abdul

razakab wrote:Hi,

I have applied for visa on July 02 via post for Tier 1 general. Basically I am switching from ICT tier 2 to tier 1 and I have exactly 95 points only. Will the new change in the rule from july 19th will effect my application which was submitted on July 02. Please let me know your suggestion.

Many Thanks
Abdul

No it should not affect you..good luck!!