E.U States Allowing Visa free Travel-E.U Fam&Residence c

It is issued by the directive,becouse the one that i had before 2007,was way too different and it was under national law,but the "carte de rezidenta" residence card is issued by EU law

Ok, you originally said you had a "carte de rezidenta" (no indication that it was of a family member of a Union citizen).

The picture you have posted is of a "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie". Is this Romania's version of the "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen"? Google tells me that "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie" is translated as "Residence card for family members".

Did your Romanian spouse previously exercise an EU Treaty right in another Member State?

We've discussed this earlier. The problem appears to be that, some people claimed that here in the past, the Romanians issue identical cards.

why do you need google translation when it is writte on the card in english and french(i guess)...
that "italian"case,is actually not mine in particular,but my friend (russian as me,married to a romanian),we are in the similar situation,i travelled with this card and my passport before,when i sent an email to spanish embassy asking if i could go to Spain without visa,i also attached my card abd i recived an answer,that from 2009 i can travel ALONE if i hold such "card"....

86ti wrote:We've discussed this earlier. The problem appears to be that, some people claimed that here in the past, the Romanians issue identical cards.

no,that is not the SAME problem at all
my new card is PERMANENT,the one one the picture is the card i had before i applied for permanent residence,and i already found the answer "thanks to solvit" ab my questioning in the topic mentioned above...has nothing to do with the subject

Be that as it may, if Romania's "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie" is a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as described in § 10 of the Directive, then:

Directive 2004/38/EC, § 5(2) wrote:2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an
entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national
law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in
Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.

The provisions of the Directive do not permit travel to another Member State unless travelling in the company of, or to join, the EU national of whom the holder is a family member.

exoticbeauty, please moderate your attitude. We non-Russians are not used to such a brusque tone.

Ben wrote:Be that as it may, if Romania's "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie" is a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as described in § 10 of the Directive...

Sure but obviously one can't distinguish in this case...

excuse me, if my attitude is way too russian,but today i tried to understand,why italian embassy asked a holder if "residence card for family members of EU" to apply for visa since the non-eu citizen want to visit ITALY with a romanian SPOUSE,they r going together

86ti wrote:

Ben wrote:Be that as it may, if Romania's "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie" is a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as described in § 10 of the Directive...

Sure but obviously one can't distinguish in this case...

I understand what you're saying, but can entry be refused on the basis that Italy (or other) is unsure whether the card was issued in accordance with the Directive or not? What about the false-positives that a blanket non-acceptance would cause?

This is the problem when Member States incorrectly transpose the Directive, by calling the RC something other than "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as is specifically required in the Directive.

exoticbeauty wrote:..why italian embassy asked a holder if "residence card for family members of EU"..

Your card is not called a "residence card for family members of EU" though, is it. This is the problem.

Ben wrote:

86ti wrote:

Ben wrote:Be that as it may, if Romania's "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie" is a "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as described in § 10 of the Directive...

Sure but obviously one can't distinguish in this case...

I understand what you're saying, but can entry be refused on the basis that Italy (or other) is unsure whether the card was issued in accordance with the Directive or not? What about the false-positives that a blanket non-acceptance would cause?

That's a question I would like to have answered directly form the EU commission, assuming of course that the cards are truly identical. (I haven't seen a proof for that yet.) For other member states it may be a convenient excuse...

Ben wrote:

exoticbeauty wrote:..why italian embassy asked a holder if "residence card for family members of EU"..

Your card is not called a "residence card for family members of EU" though, is it. This is the problem.

ok,hows the problem can be solved?
the ponit is,that the card is not called this way,becouse Romania is not England and english is not oficial language,so the docoment is on romanian,but as you can see on the picture,right after the romanian name of the card it is written in english and french,so it can be recognized by those who do not know romanian,im not sure if for exapmle Italy,Spain,Germani or France,has such card totally in english as it written in directive...
even if it is the wrong card,but the Ro goverment issues ONLY this type,which is my fault here?

Looking into the Romanian translation of Directive 2004/38/EC: "Permis de ședere de membru de familie pentru un cetățean al Uniunii".

exoticbeauty wrote:the ponit is,that the card is not called this way,becouse Romania is not England and english is not oficial language,so the docoment is on romanian,but as you can see on the picture,right after the romanian name of the card it is written in english and french,so it can be recognized by those who do not know romanian,im not sure if for exapmle Italy,Spain,Germani or France,has such card totally in english as it written in directive...

No. Romania was instructed, in the Romanian language version of Directive 2004/38/EC, to call it "Permis de ședere de membru de familie pentru un cetățean al Uniunii"*.

The Romanians ignored this instruction by calling it a "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie"

*although, personally, I feel that "Carte de ședere de membru de familie pentru un cetățean al Uniunii" is a more accurate translation.

lol that is what i had before the 2007,permis de sedere,but they changed it to carte de rezidenta,also applied new condition for application,which are much more "human" than before,in 2007 i was invited to Immigrant office to change my current 'permis de sedere" to the "carte de rezidenta" as they said" by the new UE law,Romania had to change the way the permits look like and the conditions to obtain one"

exoticbeauty wrote:lol that is what i had before the 2007,permis de sedere,but they changed it to carte de rezidenta,also applied new condition for application,which is are much more "human" than before,in 2007 i was invited to Immigrant office to change my current 'permis de sedere" to the "carte de rezidenta" as they said" by the new UE law,Romania had to change the way the permits look like and the conditions to obtain one"

There are multiple problems here.

The Romanian language version of Directive 2004/38/EC states in §10 that the card is to be called a "Permis de ședere de membru de familie pentru un cetățean al Uniunii". This is incorrect, since "permis de ședere" means "residence permit". It should be "residence card" (no permission required).

This is why, in my opinion and I cannot speak Romanian, the Romanian authorities were correct in not calling it "Permis de ședere de membru de familie pentru un cetățean al Uniunii" and were on the right lines by replacing "permis" with "carte".

However, "Carte de rezidenta pentru membrii de familie" ("Residence card for family members") is wrong since "of a Union citizen" is missing - there is nothing which indicates that the card is issued according to EC law.

exoticbeauty wrote:ok,hows the problem can be solved?

Complain to the Romanian authorities and to the European Commission. Meanwhile, you need a visa to enter Italy.

Funny as it may sound, I travelled ALONE with this same card to Belgium, Spain, Poland, Czech, I pass through Hungary 10 times alone.


Whatever its called

I hope I'm posting in the right place. It's related to the topic.

This is the situation. I am a British Citizen and I am married to a South African who has a residence permit in the UK. Can I travel to France without applying for the Schengen Visa?

I can't make head or tail of the ECC law regarding the matter...

If someone could enlighten me that'd be great!

Thanks in advance,

Ben

Mercyknight wrote:I hope I'm posting in the right place. It's related to the topic.

This is the situation. I am a British Citizen and I am married to a South African who has a residence permit in the UK. Can I travel to France without applying for the Schengen Visa?

I can't make head or tail of the ECC law regarding the matter...

If someone could enlighten me that'd be great!

Thanks in advance,

Ben

Your wife needs a visa.

giruzz

Mercyknight wrote:I am a British Citizen ... Can I travel to France without applying for the Schengen Visa?

Yes, you as a British Citizen can travel to France without a visa of any kind. Your wife, however, will require a Schengen visa from the French Embassy, though she will not have to pay for it.

Non-EEA family members in possession of a UK RC with the endorsement "family member of a EEA national" can travel to France without a schengen visa provided that they are travelling with or joining their EU spouse. This has been the case since March 2009.

See here: http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Visa-websi ... ommaire_15

Here a short report on what we have experiened recently on our trip from Manchester to Munich (and also to Liechtenstein) and back.

Lufhansa. The airline allows online check-in and we opted for this variant. Based on nationailty the online form asks for visa information (visa number and expiry date). Alternatively, one can tick a box stating that the traveller would be eligible for a visa on entry. As there were no other alternatives we decided to enter my wifes data from her residence card. I have no idea what happens with this data or how it would be used or if we could just have decided to go with the visa-on-entry tick box. The documents were checked at the gate. At Munich airport the person checking wore a 'Document check' patch. Neither (Manchester, Munich) asked any questions, no explanations had to be given though the person in Munich looked somehwat strangely when he saw the RC but was obviously satisfied that everything was in order.

German Immigration at Munich airport. It was the very first time that the police officer (in the EU queue) had seen a residence card. While discussing the issue he kept staring at his screen and must have gleaned some relevant information from there as he let us eventually pass (or maybe he just believed us that we were married or maybe...). Interestingly, the EU queue seemed to be rather slow that day.

Liechtenstein border. I decided to park the car at some distance to the check point and discuss with the Swiss border police first. Somewhat surprisingly, the RC didn't mean anything to them. I briefly explaind that the RC should allow entry to the principality. He took my wife's passport and started to do some investigations on his computer. He also used the phone once though I am not sure if that was related to our case. Some five minutes later another IO came in and they started to discuss the issue.

At this point I decided to ask them whether they would be interested in some input of mine. They were very open to this suggestion and I explained them about the recent changes in Liechtenstein law, that I had confirmation from the Swiss embassy in London (through the ministry), and that visa free travel for residence card holders extends to the whole of the EEA but not Switzerland (stare of confusion at this point). They tell me that they are supposed to get orders from Bern but actually don't and therefore have to investigate "unusual" cases themselves. The IOs decided to let us pass the border because they thought that we would pose "a low risk" anyway. The first IO made a copy of the RC and said that he would investigate the case later ("out of personal interest"!!!). Both seemed to be very happy to have learned something new that day. I went back to the car and they eventually waved me through which, from my observation, they appeared to be doing with every car (and may very well have been the short route to the whole affair of entrance). They never checked documents of mine and may have seen wife (she kept waiting in the car) only for a second or so while I drove past them..

On the way back we were waved through by the Austrian border guards (obviously they are very well versed in this game too...) As interesting as it may have been to disucess their views I was actually quite happy not to.

German Immigration at Munich airport (again). There are exit checks at this airport. The border police guard investigates my wife's document and asks whether we are married. Slightly confused, I said yes and pointed to the British 'Aufenthaltskarte' (residence card) but he seemed to have believed that it was irrelevant (huh?). I recall that I also mentioned that we were living in the UK. Giving our documents back he let us pass and while we were leaving he seemed to be shaking his head and eventually nodding to himself while talking to his colleague in the same cubicle. Overall, the scene was very confusing and I have no idea what he actually was after (or whether he fully understood the situation).

UK immigration at Manchester airport. We go throught the EU queue. The IO takes our documents and quickly puts my wife's passport back on the counter claiming that the landing card is missing. My wife and I simultaneously declare 'residence card' at which point the IO realises the situation and does the right thing. Could have been obvious from the beginning but the IO obviously knows how to deal with EEA regulations.

Overall, the immigration side of our travel was quite positive although it left me wondering why it is me to have to explain the situation to border police...

HI All,
I am married to an Irish National and hold a "RESIDENCE CARD OF A FAMILY MEMBER OF AN EEA NATIONAL"

Do I need a Schengen visa to travel to Italy? We are travelling together and have been told to take our marriage cert just in case.
I have read on a site the following:

Can anyone confirm if they have travelled to Italy with any problems?

No, you don't. Hope this helps.

Gabriella2305 wrote:HI All,
I am married to an Irish National and hold a "RESIDENCE CARD OF A FAMILY MEMBER OF AN EEA NATIONAL"

Do I need a Schengen visa to travel to Italy? We are travelling together and have been told to take our marriage cert just in case.
I have read on a site the following:

Can anyone confirm if they have travelled to Italy with any problems?

Information regarding the Czech Republic:

http://www.mzv.cz/london/en/visa_and_co ... rs_of.html
http://www.mzv.cz/jnp/en/information_fo ... index.html