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please help!!IS MY APPLICATION GOING TO BE REFUSED??

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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hashemp
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please help!!IS MY APPLICATION GOING TO BE REFUSED??

Post by hashemp » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:01 am

i just had to pay 120 pound fine to magistrate court because i didn't have valid ticket on the train..this is my only conviction in 5 my years time in uk and my record is clean. never been outside the uk in this 5 years
i passed the life in the uk test

Do you think HO will disregard this minor offence if i declare on the application form??
Is this a minor offence or i have to wait for five years more for this stupid mistake to be spent

hashemp
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Location: croydon

help

Post by hashemp » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:39 am

come on guys, i am desperate for an answer
50 view and no answer

Newbies
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Post by Newbies » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:07 pm

To be on the safe side you have to declare it. Not sure if this will be regarded as a minor offence when it comes to the good character accessement. If your fine was given at the spot where the offence was committed and you paid the fine instantly without going to court then you have a good chance and you did not have to declare it. Call HO for clarification. Best of luck.

ChetanOjha
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Re: please help!!IS MY APPLICATION GOING TO BE REFUSED??

Post by ChetanOjha » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:27 pm

Normally any fine/penalty order by magistrate/judge is considered as conviction even if it is small amount.
Besides, can you tell us why you went to judge for ticket offense. Normally if you are found without ticket, ticket-checker can fine you on the spot which is not considered as offense, if paid on the spot. But if you do not pay it and matter goes to court and magistrate order you to pay....then it is considered as conviction(no matter how small it is).

Again this is my understanding. I think if you mention this in your application with explaination as why the matter went to magistrate etc. you may be considered for BC.

hashemp wrote:i just had to pay 120 pound fine to magistrate court because i didn't have valid ticket on the train..this is my only conviction in 5 my years time in uk and my record is clean. never been outside the uk in this 5 years
i passed the life in the uk test

Do you think HO will disregard this minor offence if i declare on the application form??
Is this a minor offence or i have to wait for five years more for this stupid mistake to be spent

hashemp
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:53 pm
Location: croydon

Post by hashemp » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:01 pm

these days TFL are refusing to fine people, they want to put example for other people to buy ticket before getting going on the train. i offered TFL to pay the 20 pound fix penalty because i was in rush to catch the train and forgot to tap my oyster and when i got caught, they refused to fine me and instead, they said they will send me a letter,and i recieved a letter from magistrate court i have to pay 100 fine.its not fair is it. im not a criminal

ChetanOjha
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Post by ChetanOjha » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:44 pm

You can mention in your application that you offered to buy ticket and also ready to pay penalty on the spot but checker refused to accept it and send your letter instead. You can also challenge the process in front of magistrate as its the TFL who didn't gave you chance to buy ticket or pay penalty. Normally in the first instance, people are given chance to pay the penalty which is much less than what you end up paying.
hashemp wrote:these days TFL are refusing to fine people, they want to put example for other people to buy ticket before getting going on the train. i offered TFL to pay the 20 pound fix penalty because i was in rush to catch the train and forgot to tap my oyster and when i got caught, they refused to fine me and instead, they said they will send me a letter,and i recieved a letter from magistrate court i have to pay 100 fine.its not fair is it. im not a criminal

JulesN19
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Post by JulesN19 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:50 pm

hashemp wrote:these days TFL are refusing to fine people, they want to put example for other people to buy ticket before getting going on the train. i offered TFL to pay the 20 pound fix penalty because i was in rush to catch the train and forgot to tap my oyster and when i got caught, they refused to fine me and instead, they said they will send me a letter,and i recieved a letter from magistrate court i have to pay 100 fine.its not fair is it. im not a criminal
What was the exact offence with which you were charged? Was it under s. 5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889? Section 5(1) of that Act? Railway byelaws?

hashemp
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Post by hashemp » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:01 pm

i was told on the letter from TFL its under s. 5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1990s. I was told its a non-recordable offence by the clerk when i came out of the courtroom and i don't have to declare it when i am applying for visa or employment. i don't know about naturalisation application.. shall i get a letter from magistrate court to confirm its not a non-recordable offence

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Post by soulfullness » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:25 pm

Hi

I have somewhat similar incident (Throwing a ciggerett butt on the floor) but in my case , the officer issued me a letter on the spot and asked to pay to the court and I did pay the penalty. What sort of conviction is this? Should I mention this in my naturalisation form AN? Please help
regards

JulesN19
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Post by JulesN19 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:32 pm

hashemp wrote:i was told on the letter from TFL its under s. 5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1990s. I was told its a non-recordable offence by the clerk when i came out of the courtroom and i don't have to declare it when i am applying for visa or employment. i don't know about naturalisation application.. shall i get a letter from magistrate court to confirm its not a non-recordable offence
My understanding is that s. 5(3) fare evasion is recordable. Regardless, whether an offence is recordable only determines whether or not it ends up in the Police National Computer.

If you do apply before your conviction becomes spent, then you must declare the conviction. If you do not declare the conviction and the Home Office learns of it in considering your application, then your application will be refused and you will be told that you will be very unlikely to be approved for naturalisation for the next ten years.

Whether or not you are approved depends on whether or not the Home Office considers your offence to be sufficiently minor to be disregarded. There are various motoring offences that are matters of strict liability, such as driving without insurance, that the Home Office does not regard as minor offences. As fare evasion under s. 5(3) involves intent not to pay the fare due, I suspect that they would not regard it as minor.

Whether or not you should apply now depends on whether you are willing to take a very real risk of losing £780. Whatever you do, don't make your situation worse by failing to declare the conviction if you apply before it is spent.

Keep in mind that there is a bill being considered in Parliament that, if passed in its current form, will reduce the rehabilitation period for convictions that result in small fines so that they will be deemed spent after one year. You may want to track the progress of that bill and write to your MP in support of it.

JulesN19
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Post by JulesN19 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:39 pm

soulfullness wrote:Hi

I have somewhat similar incident (Throwing a ciggerett butt on the floor) but in my case , the officer issued me a letter on the spot and asked to pay to the court and I did pay the penalty. What sort of conviction is this? Should I mention this in my naturalisation form AN? Please help
regards
It depends. Which of the following were you given?:
(a) a fixed penalty notice that invited you to avoid being charged with the alleged offence by paying a given amount; or
(b) a summons that notified you of a charge and that led you to plead guilty (whether in person or by post)?

A fixed penalty notice need not be declared. As long as it was paid promptly and you have not been given more than one fixed penalty notice in the last year, the Home Office will not consider it.

If you received a conviction from the court, then you must declare it unless it has become spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

You may want to read the Home Office's guidance to its employees on the good character requirement for naturalisation.

hashemp
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Post by hashemp » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:59 am

guys i received a letter just yesterday from magistrate court say nothing about me convicted and say offense and penalties
fine 35 pound and costs of court 50 pound
it says on the UKBA small fine in a court may be disregarded as you can see i was only fined 35 because i was on low income and court cost wasn't really a fine.. on the first letter i received a summon that i have to pay 120 pound fine but then because i was on low income i received this much fine

do you think i'm going to be alright as this is my only conviction and do you think 35 is a small fine

hashemp
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Location: croydon

GREAT NEWS

Post by hashemp » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:46 pm

hello guys, finally i risked it and applied for british citizenship. i also disclosed my minor offence. i was lucky to be granted british citizenship. so, if you guys have a similar offence as me don't be scared to not apply.. apply because its worth it

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