Experience with INCOMPETENT Border Control at Heathrow Term1

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:03 am

Tell us how that one goes and good luck. Feel free to ask any questions if u need help and hope u dont get those incompetent morons upon your "someone's" entry into the UK.

Thanks. Will do.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:22 am

keffers wrote:A right not to have a stamp in a passport? Justice denied! Get over yourselves.

So you are trivialising the fact that an officer of law enforcement breaks laws?

paulmu · Post by **paulmu** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:50 am

Blackwater1 wrote:It's better way to take `revenge' than describing IO's atrocities here which is totally a priceless waste of time.

You make this sound like Darfur!!

There is nothing here that speaks directly to anyone, so personal attacks are unwarranted.

Any reference made to an individual (however described in the original posting) cannot be taken as a slur against any other member of that commmunity. If you watch the news or read the papers should know about this. So get over it!

Blackwater1 · Post by **Blackwater1** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:25 am

@paulmu,mate u didn't get it!If OP has the will then a legal action would be better if it really happened or was that bad,than useless gossip here.

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:46 am

So you are trivialising the fact that an officer of law enforcement breaks laws?

In the same way as some on this board trivialise the law breaking act of overstayers, by offering advice and help about how to overcome the 'situation'?

Want officials to comply with the law? Then folk here should only help those who have complied with the law and not those who have deliberately broken it. Those who do break the law and try and manipulate it only make it difficult for those who make genuine and truthful applications.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:04 pm

keffers wrote:In the same way as some on this board trivialise the law breaking act of overstayers, by offering advice and help about how to overcome the 'situation'?

What does this have to do with this case or anybody commenting in this thread? I asked you specifically about your opinion but it seems you are just trying to justify your own deeds with the actions of others ("The others do it so I can do it too"?).

keffers wrote:Want officials to comply with the law? Then folk here should only help those who have complied with the law and not those who have deliberately broken it. Those who do break the law and try and manipulate it only make it difficult for those who make genuine and truthful applications.

Did the OP manipulate the law? In what way? Are you suggesting that officials only have to comply with the law if everyone else did?

keffers wrote:You can't have your cake and eat it.

Why can't I eat my cake?

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:04 pm

Did the OP manipulate the law? In what way? Are you suggesting that officials only have to comply with the law if everyone else did?

No. Please try to stop suggesting that I am suggesting something other than what I have written. Its a bit childish. The posts I have posted are in plain English.

However, there is definitely hypocrisy by some posters who insist that the law is complied with by officials yet seek to assist law-breakers.

Consistency and not expediency.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:20 pm

keffers wrote:The posts I have posted are in plain English.

Yes, you are right. Your comments clearly speak for yourself.

Mrfantastic · Post by **Mrfantastic** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:17 pm

i've read through this post and i don't think the op was rude in any way, i would say op was rather frustrated with the way he/she was treated at the time, i mean we all expect IO at the port to know the law and be competent in what they do and also provide little bit of customer service alongside, if they dont know the law then they shouldn't be sitting there, is as simple as that. actually i think it's the IO that was rude trying to ignore the op and arguing about something she doesn't know by sending her to the non-eea queue. op i think u've done the right thing by sticking to your right and sharing your experience with others, people should read posts clearly before commenting.

giardaella · Post by **giardaella** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:33 pm

keffers wrote:However, there is definitely hypocrisy by some posters who insist that the law is complied with by officials yet seek to assist law-breakers.

So, either you are saying I am a law-breaker and ppl here try to assist me OR if this comment is not related to my post what are you on about, what's the point in picking on some other posters personally here, give us at least one example, would you! A link or smth which portrays such damn advice to law-breakers hiding on this site.

Just to give another example of possible affects of incompetence in everyday life.

Imagine you urgently need to withdraw all your money from a bank. You know for sure (banking code or similar reference clearly states this) that you can do this by providing document A. You approach a personal banker and he tells you blindly that NO, you need to provide docs B,C,D etc. which you don't have and also sends you to another branch, not far, just a 5 minute walk, not a biggie, as you say, get over it.

What would your reaction be??? You would try to argue your point, but all you get back is the personal banker calling security on you and escorting you outside the building. WOW, you would politely write a letter to the Bank's head office and politely describe that the person needs more training. In 2-3 weeks you get a reply through the post apologising for the mistake etc, promising that they maintan the highest possible level of service

and this type of mistake would never happen again...

You feel so much better because the Bank acknowledged the mistake, but the fact remains, you had to go back home, collect docs B,C,D and walk 5 minutes to another branch. Now, as per my first sentence of the example, you URGENTLY needed money, remember? You would make such a fuss to get to the manager to speak to him AND would insist on that personal banker being told in front of you that he's a door knob

I have encountered incompetence EVERYWHERE I lived and that's why I anticipate this, so as a minimum I always send letters recorded delivery, take names, departments and extension numbers of ppl who I speak to, keep copies of what I'd sent. Thus, when manure hits the fan, I don't have to swear an affidavit that I had done this or that!

I can give you plenty of examples, but you get the point... I hope

@Mrfantastic
Thanks for seeing the clear picture and point of this thread!

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:57 pm

Giardaella, you are wasting your energy and time on the wrong people. It should have become clear by now that some here just need a forum to express their discontent with, well, whatever they feel discontent about. Whether related to your case or not, or factual at all doesn't seem to matter.

daddy · Post by **daddy** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:22 pm

giardaella wrote:I'm a NON-EU passport holder. Arrived today on 22 January with a EEA RC. Went to the EU Queue, just as you're supposed to.

A short lady wearing a muslim hijab looked at my passport and went:

Her: "Have you filled out the Landing Card?"
Me: "I'm an EEA Family Member, I'm not supposed to." and showed her the RC.

Her: "it doesn't matter, you still need to fill one out and go to the NON-EU queue"
Me: "I am NOT!!! are you new or something?"
Her: "NO! (rolling back the eyes) you're new, just got your RC recently!"
Me: "Listen, can you at least call your supervisor or someone who is more competent? and give me your name, need to complain"
Her: "No, we don't give names and I'm not calling a supervisor" So she started to shut her booth and just walked away!!!

At that stage I heard another guy shout from another booth smth like, "this is for EU only, go into the middle queue".

I saw another guy on the left, went up to him, he looked like he'd help. He just told me: "you've been dealt with sir, go into the NON-EU queue please."

Me: "are you ALL incompetent!!! I can't believe it!!!, I want to speak to someone, make a complaint"
Him: "after you've been rude, I'm not gonna serve you, you can make a complaint after and if you go through passport control"

Me: "I WILL make a complaint and I'm not being rude, saying that you're all incompetent and had no training is just stating the fact and not being insulting! And in any case, it's not as if I'm in a restaurant, if you guys don't serve me I can't just go to another restaurant, I still need to enter the country and what you're doing is ILLEGAL!"

Anyway, I decided to get through first so was looking at the endless middle queue. As I was approaching the queue I just decided to call one of the immigration officers there. I asked the guy if I could speak to a supervisor and when he'd approached me, explained what had happened.

He knew the law as it was and that I'm not meant to fill out a landing card (Art.24 Directive 2004/38- equal treatment) nor get a stamp in the passport (Reg.11 I think of 2006 Regulations) and got me through without queueing up.

The funny thing was, he wasn't logged in to his computer so asked a colleague to check my passport, that colleague guy checked the passport nd before I managed to say a word (presuming he also knew the rules) STAMPED it )) HAHAHA it's not a biggie, just a stamp, but I also told him that look mate, you're NOT meant to stamp it. He told me that they HAD A CHOICE!!! whether to stamp it, and they can do so on the first arrival?!!! It wasn't even my first arrival and they have NO BLOODY choice! The guy who was helping me (same rank so couldn't have a go at his colleague) also looked stunned, there he was trying to help etc. knows the rules and his colleague just stamped my passport illegally. Anyway, he tried to cover it by saying that people are still confused as to the rules. I told him it's not a new thing and requested to speak to the supervisor.

Long story short, the supervisor came, we went up to the guys at the EU queue to sort out what'd happened. As the immigratino officer girl wasn't there (prob on her break) I first called up the guy who shouted from the side booth.

In front of his supervisor I had a go at him smth like:
Me: "You were not even dealing with me, you never saw my papers and you're making a scene by shouting across the fllipping hall as if we're at a market. Whenever you see this RC in the future, let them through without a stamp or landing card"

He replied, struggling to speak English at all, I started to wonder how he'd got the job and if they employ HIS type, who do they reject???

Him: "I was just supporting my colleague who you'd been rude to, all I said was this is EU queue only"

Me: "Well, I don't have anyone to support me here, and moreover, she should be competent enough to handle situations on her own without your or anyone's intervention."

The supervisor stood there all this time and whenever I'd try to tell the guy off, he'd stop me and tell me to just explain what'd happened and he'd do the ticking off.

When done with this idiot, I asked him to find that short girl in a hijab. He brought her out, she apologised (don't think sincerely). I told her not to treat people with non-eu passports like 2nd class citizens and to call a supervisor if EVER in doubt, and at least listen to what people are telling her. Again, the supervisor stopped my telling off and just said that he'd deal with it. She rolled her eyes back again and walked off... just shows what she thought of all the fuss, but am sure she'd know what to do in the future. I took his shoulder number 2158 and he'd advised me to take Imm. Officers' numbers if I wanted to make complaints.

So, that was it today at Heathrow, sorry for the long post, got pissed off big time, NOT because I can't be asked to queue up with other people or fill out that landing card, or can't bear a stamp in my passport... No, but because that is how people's incompetence can mess up others' lives in any walk of life. Where they are in the position of authority and can blindly tell you to eff off, without listening. And you'd think this is not a new rule, it's been around since 2006, when UK implemented the Directive...

Anyway, don't know if it's worth to write a complaint to the UKBA and receive an apology AND carry that letter with me in the future...

The funny thing was that I had a copy of Directive & Regulations with me... but in the ckecked in baggage ))) so, I only got to it AFTER I'd passed immigratino control, but I'd never think I'd have to show it, all my previous recent experiences were fine, I always dealt with trained staff who knew what they were doing...

Pls, may I ask, in what eu country do you and your partner live? your answer may help others who wants to know if realy in practice people with reisdence card from other eu country can enter uk for a visit, thanks for your reply.
Daddy.

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:23 pm

Hi

After reading this story and people comments,I would like to add my comments and try to be rational.

What I got from yours this post is`you think yourself a first class citizens because you have EEA permit.Second it looks you have attitude problem.

I am not saying you were wrong,what I am saying you try to create a bit of drama from a little thing.This whole drama was easily avoid if you tried a little hard.It looks to me you are Ego-minded person.

We Non-EEA citizens are always treated like second class citizens but we never jumped into neck of immigration officers.

I would agree most of people views on this forum.

I would also question why home office treats EEA citizen first class citizens?
Why they dont have to pay visa fees for their applications.

This is clearly discrimination and injustice in UK system.

This is also unfair why EEA are no considered to cut immigrations to desire level.

So called justice system.

Shahzad

HRY2005 · Post by **HRY2005** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:01 pm

I read the OP's post the first day it was posted but decided not to comment because the first few responses was clearly focused on the OP's personal and none was ''constructive'' I was surprised today to see how far the thread's gone. I emphatised with the OP because I could feel the anger of someone who's been flying for hours, tired and probably wanted to go home as quickly as possible and was pushed over the edge with the IO's treatment.

IMHO, while there are very pleasant and competent IO's at the borders, we have all watched them sometimes on UK borderforce where they are very rude to passengers, especially when they are suspicious. In this case, the OP was very right and only demanding that his rights be respected. I would get angry, if no one is listening to my argument or can't even be bothered to know the fact of the case before making conclusions, and I know that I was 100% right.

The first response of the OP was ''Im not suppose to fill a landing card and I have got an RC''. That's enough to make the IO listened and pay more attention to what he said rather than trying to walk away from the desk and asked him to join the non-EU queue.

I'm from the same school as Obie and other guys who share that view. It's not right when a general issue that we can all learn one or two things from are being personalised. Its a forum, we all have different views but should posted with respect to each other, no matter what the circumstances.

HRY2005 · Post by **HRY2005** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:08 pm

shahzad80 wrote: I would also question why home office treats EEA citizen first class citizens?
Why they dont have to pay visa fees for their applications.

This is clearly discrimination and injustice in UK system.

Lets not take this to another level. The EU directive prohibits fees for EEA applications, not just in the UK but throughout the EU. Its not an HO issue.

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:39 pm

HRY2005 wrote:
shahzad80 wrote: I would also question why home office treats EEA citizen first class citizens?
Why they dont have to pay visa fees for their applications.

This is clearly discrimination and injustice in UK system.
Lets not take this to another level. The EU directive prohibitsh fees for EEA applications, not just in the UK but throughout the EU. Its not an HO issue.

Because EEA permit so this is not discrimination.

Thays way I called this injustice system.

Treating EEA as first class citizens and other second class citizens.

Shahzad

giardaella · Post by **giardaella** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:46 pm

daddy wrote: which country u live in

Uk

If this thread reaches 5 pages... I'll be ROFLing. For everyone out there who thinks i'm arrogant-YES! Who thinks i'm treatig myself first-class - YES! who bears a grudge cause people have their cakes and strangely want to eat them- YES! (same as saying, u can't have a wife and then shag her too). I love cakes! I am a big-deal maker, pick on the weak and suck up to the strong! Yes i was rude and i LOVED it cause i could and cause this is UK and not some 3rd world country where they'd just plant drugs in ur suitcase and ship u off to a local prison!!!! Everything u guys say- good, bad or evil... THAT'S ME!!!

A "don't try this at home" piece of advice. If u r one of those who gets into the same situation, unless u feel comfortable being extremely rude and obnoxious, just go into the middle queue... listen to music, watch a rubbish or read a book on ur IGadget (if u have one) while u r there, fill a landing card, get stamped on the forehead, y not? U r absolutely right, now that i am quasi eea national, i cant hang out with the lowly non-eu nationals. Losers

God it's sooo funny, keep posting guys, me and YOU- we r gonna make

historyyyy,

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:11 pm

Hi

If this thread reaches 5 pages... I'll be ROFLing. For everyone out there who thinks i'm arrogant-YES! Who thinks i'm treatig myself first-class - YES! who bears a grudge cause people have their cakes and strangely want to eat them- YES! (same as saying, u can't have a wife and then shag her too). I love cakes! I am a big-deal maker, pick on the weak and suck up to the strong! Yes i was rude and i LOVED it cause i could and cause this is UK and not some 3rd world country where they'd just plant drugs in ur suitcase and ship u off to a local prison!!!! Everything u guys say- good, bad or evil... THAT'S ME!!!

A "don't try this at home" piece of advice. If u r one of those who gets into the same situation, unless u feel comfortable being extremely rude and obnoxious, just go into the middle queue... listen to music, watch a rubbish or read a book on ur IGadget (if u have one) while u r there, fill a landing card, get stamped on the forehead, y not? U r absolutely right, now that i am quasi eea national, i cant hang out with the lowly non-eu nationals. Losers

God it's sooo funny, keep posting guys, me and YOU- we r gonna make historyyyy,

[/quote]

Thats way we all are saying you have attitude problem.

This post is a classical example.

You are not listening people.

You should sing song..I am on top,I am no.1 oh I am first class.

Trust me I have seen many qualified solicitors who dont know immigration basis.But they are solicitors

I am 100% with you that you were asking right thing.
we only object yours style.

Shahzad

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:24 pm

OK we all now know giardaella likes cakes and likes to eat them - and takes colloquial sayings literally (or pretends not to understand what they mean).

Attitudes?

For several years after she acquired British Citizenship my wife did not apply for her British passport until her old one had run out.

Shock, horror! She had to queue up with and go through the channel with all the foreigners. My God! How did she survive? Should she have waived her naturalisation certificate about demanding to go through with the natives?

When I arrive in my own country I am asked where I have been. Should I tell the immigration officer to sod off and mind his own business as he can't stop me entering my own country - or should I smile, do what is requested of me and then carry on regardless?

giardaella doesn't have a chip on his shoulder - its more of a log.

shahzad80 · Post by **shahzad80** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:42 pm

keffers wrote:OK we all now know giardaella likes cakes and likes to eat them - and takes colloquial sayings literally (or pretends not to understand what they mean).

Attitudes?

For several years after she acquired British Citizenship my wife did not apply for her British passport until her old one had run out.

Shock, horror! She had to queue up with and go through the channel with all the foreigners. My God! How did she survive? Should she have waived her naturalisation certificate about demanding to go through with the natives?

When I arrive in my own country I am asked where I have been. Should I tell the immigration officer to sod off and mind his own business as he can't stop me entering my own country - or should I smile, do what is requested of me and then carry on regardless?

giardaella doesn't have a chip on his shoulder - its more of a log.

well said bro.

Shahzad

HRY2005 · Post by **HRY2005** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:53 pm

shahzad80 wrote:Because EEA permit so this is not discrimination.

Thays way I called this injustice system.

Treating EEA as first class citizens and other second class citizens.

Shahzad

I dont think you get where I was coming from. Injustice system!!! What? By the UK or the EU?

1. why home office treats EEA citizen first class citizens?
2. Why they dont have to pay visa fees for their applications.
3. injustice in UK system

I was only responding to the above comments, not about 1st class or 2nd class!
The point I was making was that the UK is only respecting the requirements of the EU directive in which they are obliged and its the same way all over the EU, so it's not a UK thing.

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:51 pm

Since the topic has digressed from an immigration issue to personal perception(s) regarding posters' attitudes and personalities, the topic is being closed.

regards

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Experience with INCOMPETENT Border Control at Heathrow Term1

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