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Wife received PR Feb 2011 and now wants divorce April 2011

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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Sanchez
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Wife received PR Feb 2011 and now wants divorce April 2011

Post by Sanchez » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:07 pm

My wife (Mexican) received her ILR in Feb 2011 and now (April 2011) has left the family home wanting a divorce.

I havent received a petition as of yet but getting ready just in case, therefore does anyone know what would happen in respect to her being able to stay here or would she have to leave once divorce confirmed? Or even not have to wait for this if i communicate to the Home office that she has left etc etc?

As far as i was concerned the ILR (marriage 10 year visa) would only be valid whilst she remains married to me (EU Member) , does anyone know if this is the case or not?

Want to know a few answers on this as i know this is all going to come up if at all i receive the petition.

Would be greatful if someone can give some advise.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:12 pm

Unless it can be proved that the ILR was obtained fraudulently, the grant of settlement may not be cancelled ... and the person will continue to hold "settled status".

You talk of ILR, but mention EEA regulations! ILR is granted under UK (national) immigration laws and PR under EEA regulations.

And there is no "marriage 10 year visa".
Last edited by geriatrix on Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

Sanchez
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Post by Sanchez » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:22 pm

Yes sorry not entirely sure what its called exactly as keep seeing people call it different things. But the application was made in the home office for the right to remain which is for 10 years under my Spanish passport (being an EU family member) using EEA forms.

I was born in the UK but as from a spanish family and spanish citizen is why the application was made using the EEA forms pertaining to me as the EU family member.

So are you saying then i dont have to communicate this with the home office so soon after her receiving this as no point ? By the way i have the actual paperwork as she left with only her passport and marriage certificate.

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Post by geriatrix » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:27 pm

You were married when your wife was granted settlement. You still are .. even though she has moved out.

So, there is no reason for UKBA to cancel her PR. Nor is there a need for you to inform UKBA when the divorce goes through ... because as a settled person, your wife is no longer your dependant (from immigration perspective). She is now a settled person in the UK .. in her own right.

That she may have used the relationship to gain PR is purely personal issue.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

Sanchez
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Post by Sanchez » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:44 pm

sushdmehta wrote:You were married when your wife was granted settlement. You still are .. even though she has moved out.

So, there is no reason for UKBA to cancel her PR. Nor is there a need for you to inform UKBA when the divorce goes through ... because as a settled person, your wife is no longer your dependant (from immigration perspective). She is now a settled person in the UK .. in her own right.

That she may have used the relationship to gain PR is purely personal issue.
Yes we are currently married and i understand what you are saying but every communciation i've had says that its only valid whilst married to me being the EU family member and that she would have to apply for British citizenship for this to be different. It also states i have a duty to inform them of any changes etc considering she is only here due to my status and is the reason why its a 10 year visa only.

I just want to make sure i'm doing the right thing here legally as if a divorce is to go through then she cannot be listed with the UKBA with any ties to me whatsoever then, as like i said she is only here due to me. I think the UKBA do need to know because if we get divorced and she then goes off and commits crimes etc (as an example) then UKBA records will show her tied to me right?!

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Post by geriatrix » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:16 pm

Okay, but what has changed .... other than the fact that she has moved out. You are still married to her, and will remain married until a decree absolute is issued.
6.7 Revoking a document certifying permanent residence or permanent residence card wrote:Permanent Residence can be revoked on the basis of Public Policy, Public Health, or Public Security or if the EEA national and/or non-EEA national family member has been away from the UK for more than 2 consecutive years.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

Sanchez
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Post by Sanchez » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:45 pm

Ok i was born in the UK but have always had spanish citizenship with a spanish passport since birth. Basically dual nationality even though never had a british passport as never had the need for it.

When i got married to my mexican wife here in the UK 5 years ago and applied for her initial visa it had to be done under the EU papers submitted to the HO due to me having a spanish passport even though they could never understand why i then had documents like birth certificate to say i was born here and i think because they automatically assume everyone wants a british passport. Anyway that initial visa for my wife was for 5 years in which after that we could apply for her right to remain. We therefore applied for the right to remain in OCT 2010 and again it had to be done under the EU paperwork being EEA forms etc. Again had initial problems with them understanding the concept but in the progress they issued me with a kind of residency card saying i could remian in the UK which i think is procedure due to me having a spanish passport as i never needed this due to being born here. I think they had to do this to then support my wifes application and in Feb 2011 my wife received her right to remain visa which states is valid for 10 years.

My wife walked out last week and said she was going to file for divorce so this is why i'm now wondering what i need to do as i'm sure that i have to let the UKBA or the HO office of this as her right to remain i think is only valid under me as the and sure this is stated in the applications. I could be wrong but thats the way it has been as those forms clearly say that that individual can only remain here under an EU family member. Therefore what i need to know is if she files a petition for divorce and it goes through then i have to notify the UKBA or HO of this right, due to the fact the only reason shes allowed to be here is due to being married to an EU family member. I couldnt careless if she's allowed to remain without being married to me now if thats the case but what i dont want is the UKBA or HO having her right to remain here associated with me if we are divorced. The paperwork also stated that she would be able to do away with this right to remain only if she takes up british citizenship which she can do if she wants to.

Hope that explains it a little as sorry but have tried to understand everything but theres so many different rules and circumstances that it does make it complicated. I honestly think that if i am served a petition that i will be left no choice but contacting the UKBA and finding out what needs to be done on my part as within 2 months of receiving the right to remain she has left and wants a divorce!!

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:11 pm

My two cents:

When a person is granted settled status in the UK, he / she ceases to be (and therefore not regarded as) a family member of an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights in the UK (EEA regulations) or a dependant of settled person / British citizen (UK national immigration laws).

A person with settled status can initiate proceedings and divorce his / her sponsoring partner without the fear of losing settled status.

At least I am not aware of any such requirement that UKBA needs to be informed of a divorce wherein both of the partners either have settled status or are British / dual nationals.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

armanibloke
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Post by armanibloke » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:09 pm

Sorry to hear that but 2 me it sounds that you can't do anything about it. Well before she apply for PR i believe she sent all the docment to HO to prove you both been married all that time and you were still married while the application were on the process, and you both been exerceing your treaty right . So obviously she is been granted PR , HO they can't go back on their decision because she left you now.
Sorry for that ones more

Sanchez
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Post by Sanchez » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:18 pm

Thanks for all the help and I'm going to check this with the ukba agency anyway considering she is still a Mexican passport holder and I have all the documents including the actual residence documentation which they normally put on a passport but they sent on an A4 sheet, but more importantly it clears my mind that I have done the right thing if things do go the way she intends.

fysicus
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Post by fysicus » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:13 am

In my view the situation is extremely easy.

As I understand the wife of Sanchez has acquired Permanent Residency under the EEA regulations, and as far as I can judge without any trace of fraud or deception. Mr Sanchez was exercising treaty rights during five years and the couple was married and living together all those time.

The law mentions only one single ground for such PR to be lost: physical absence from the UK for more than two consecutive years. The Permanent Residence Card needs to be renewed after ten years, but that is a purely administrative formality. You don't lose any rights if you don't renew it.
In fact, the ECI that sushdmehta quoted in this thread is also wrong. Direct quote from the law:
Once acquired, the right of permanent residence under this regulation shall be lost only through absence from the United Kingdom for a period exceeding two consecutive years.
or from the EU-directive itself:
Once acquired, the right of permanent residence shall be lost only through absence from the host
Member State for a period exceeding two consecutive years.
Only in exceptional cases can a PR holder be expelled:
The host Member State may not take an expulsion decision against Union citizens or their
family members, irrespective of nationality, who have the right of permanent residence on its
territory, except on serious grounds of public policy or public security.

Sanchez
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Post by Sanchez » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:18 pm

Thats correct, but the UKBA will always have my wife having that PR registered in their records as being obtained under an EU family member being myself and therefore if this is no longer the case i presume they must be notified as they will have records saying we are married etc. If this was not to be the case why on earth would they ever ask for those details of prove in applying for the PR to begin with. And i would disagree that its not been under fraud or deception as 2 months after receiving it she leaves so i think thats quite clearly obvious dont you think?
As mentioned i just want to ensure the UKBA are aware of the situation and that if things do go in the manner she wants then at least they are clear that we are no longer married etc as dont want anything coming back to me and was aware that shes in the country as a mexican national but not associated with me any longer as the sponsoring EU family member.

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:38 pm

Sanchez wrote:Thats correct, but the UKBA will always have my wife having that PR registered in their records as being obtained under an EU family member being myself and therefore if this is no longer the case i presume they must be notified as they will have records saying we are married etc.
What you still do not appreciate is the fact that your wife has obtained PR in her own right, that is she has her status now totally independent of yours. Logically, a subsisting marriage or any other dependancy is not a requirement anymore (as outlined above) and totally irrelevant so there is nothing to report to the UKBA as they couldn't make anything with that information. You are not "sponsoring" anything anymore.

Sanchez wrote:If this was not to be the case why on earth would they ever ask for those details of prove in applying for the PR to begin with.
Well, obviously because those are the requirements to have PR confirmed?

Sanchez
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Post by Sanchez » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:50 pm

Yes i appreciate everything you are all saying dont get me wrong here but i really just want to make sure i'm doing the right thing here as dont want anything biting me on the mule later so to speak ............ thats all! As i mentioned i couldnt careless if she stays as its obvious to everyone she only had one intention here and thats obtaining the PR and then moving on but again say that as long as i'm doing the right thing then my conscience is clear!

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Post by Obie » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:03 pm

I think it is really unfair and evil what she did, especially the fact you spent so much time on this forum to seek advice for a successful PR application. To feel that you have been stringed along or taken advantage of over a 5 years period, is really bad. Unfortunately there is not much you can do in regards to her immigration status, as she is no longer subjected to any controls. Reporting her to the HO will make no difference, even if she had not obtained the PR, as under community law, as marriage is considered valid until the decree absolute is issued by the national authority, therefore you are still considered as married. If the application was made under national rules and she has yet to obtain ILR, then it MIGHT have had an impact.
From personal experience, i can assure you that people who act in the way she did tend not to go far, if that is any consolation.

Having said so, i have to be on the err of caution as there is alway two sides to a story.

My advice is to move on with your life and forget about her if the marriage cannot be reconciled, as it seems in this case. You will not be held liable for any criminal or illegal activities she indulgies herself in.

Just make sure joint account and other activities are cancelled.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Sanchez
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Post by Sanchez » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:31 pm

Thank you Obie for the kind words as your absolutely right as i did everything i could for her and as you rightly mentioned everything in obtaining her PR so that we could obviously be happily married which is noted by your reference to my research on this forum on previous posts. This is why i have come back to find out where i stand so like i mentioned my conscience is clear.

Life is hard are times and this is really one of those as even though being married to her for over the 5 years we were together a lot longer but unfortunately nobody can force anyone to do anything but its clear to me and others that there was only one motive here now!

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Post by Obie » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:30 pm

I can understand how angry and badly hurt you may be feeling, and wanting to punish her for what she did to you, but legally speaking, there is no honest information that anyone on this forum can give you that could bring you comfort, where her immigration issues are concern. Once PR has been obtained as explained by experience member on this thread, not much can be done to get it revoked.

Time is a healer, if it not meant to work out it will not. Although it is morally wrong to be in a relationship with someone, you have no intention of living with. There might also be other issues you are unaware of, which is why she left.

I must say there are case i have read in this forum where the overseas spouse has got the Uk citizen spouse out of the family home, made false allegation, and the rest.

Try and focus on your properties and interest, in the event of her proceeding with divorce.

So long as your conscience is clear, she would have to bear the brunt of what she did to you on her conscience forever.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Post by sjimoh112 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:42 pm

This is an unfurtunate situation. She's clearly be waiting for the pr, but what a snickie person she is. It's obvious you didn't see this coming.It's a shame she took this route, sorry!!!

Going through a divorce it a traumatic thing for anyone and I hope she will pause and think for a moment. As Obie has written, time is a healer and I wish you all the best.

Can also say there's no point in informing HO; they don't give a toss and it's a complete waste of your time and money. You won't be responsible for her if she involve herself in illegal activities.
[Moderator Edit]

Nimitta
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Post by Nimitta » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:10 pm

Sanchez wrote:I could be wrong but thats the way it has been as those forms clearly say that that individual can only remain here under an EU family member. Therefore what i need to know is if she files a petition for divorce and it goes through then i have to notify the UKBA or HO of this right, due to the fact the only reason shes allowed to be here is due to being married to an EU family member.
Well, you can write them, fax them, call them and tell them. It will not change a thing. Her status in the UK ceased to be dependent on her being married to you. Moreover, there are rules defending non-EU spouses who already divorced and has not yet received or even filed their PR applications, provided they have lived in the UK for at least 1 year and have being married for three years and the EU spouse had being exercising the Treaty rights during the last year prior to getting divorce. Even if that was the case you would be able to do nothing. She would get permission to remain in the UK anyway.
Sanchez wrote:I honestly think that if i am served a petition that i will be left no choice but contacting the UKBA and finding out what needs to be done on my part as within 2 months of receiving the right to remain she has left and wants a divorce!!
I understand you are upset, and I am truly sorry. When marriage breaks up it is... hard to accept and it hurts a lot. :( Just do not let it to drug you down from being upset to being angry or depressed.
Obie wrote:I think it is really unfair and evil what she did, especially the fact you spent so much time on this forum to seek advice for a successful PR application.
I think we have no idea what happened. All we know is that she left. Maybe she will come back... I really doubt that all she cared for was PR and she had no feelings for him. She could not manage fooling him for 5 years, it just does not sound plausible.
Last edited by Nimitta on Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:37 am

Nimitta wrote:Even if that was the case you would be able to do nothing. She would get permission to remain in the UK anyway.
No quite so because to successfully retain rights the non-EEA would need the full support of the EEA national.

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Post by Nimitta » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:27 pm

86ti wrote: No quite so because to successfully retain rights the non-EEA would need the full support of the EEA national.
I know. You mean the proof of exercising the Treaty rights during 12 months before the divorce. I have read about cases when an EU spouse refused to give payslips and p60 form to the non-EU spouse. But that is all, isn't that?

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:48 pm

Nimitta wrote:
86ti wrote: No quite so because to successfully retain rights the non-EEA would need the full support of the EEA national.
I know. You mean the proof of exercising the Treaty rights during 12 months before the divorce. I have read about cases when an EU spouse refused to give payslips and p60 form to the non-EU spouse. But that is all, isn't that?
Well, yes but that's the major hurdle for some to get the much wanted RC...

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Post by michelinha » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:57 am

86ti wrote:
Nimitta wrote:Even if that was the case you would be able to do nothing. She would get permission to remain in the UK anyway.
No quite so because to successfully retain rights the non-EEA would need the full support of the EEA national.

No quite, I ve retained my rights of residency without any help or documents from my ex EEA national.

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Post by Nimitta » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:47 am

michelinha wrote: No quite, I ve retained my rights of residency without any help or documents from my ex EEA national.
How did you do that?

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:20 pm

Very interesting. Please let the forum know the details.

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