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Fined by Magistrate Court for SP30 (3 points, £60)

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

Cheekoo
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Fined by Magistrate Court for SP30 (3 points, £60)

Post by Cheekoo » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:29 pm

Hi All, I went thru all the forums and I am still confused about this, so here is what I am looking for.

In Feb 2007, I received a Notice of Intended Prosecution from Greater Manchester Police for excess speed (30MPH). I was driving on my Indian License so I called them up and told that I am driving on Indian License. They mentioned that they can not handle international licenses and sent it to Magistrate Court.

I got a summon from Magistrate Court , where I pleaded Guilty thru Post and I got fined by Magistrate Court for 60£ (3 points on my license SP30).

My query is that is this a criminal conviction under Rehabilitation Act 1974 ? if yes then when will it be spent ? 4 Years (per DVLA the points will be removed after 4 years) or 5 Years (Per rehabilitation Act 'Fines' are spent after 5 years)

I am due for my ILR (Tier-1) in early May 2011, but According to the new rule published on 6th April 2011, will I be able to apply for my ILR , or I need to wait until the Conviction is 'spent' (if it is considered as criminal conviction)?

genorp
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Post by genorp » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:36 pm

A fine issued by the court (as opposed to a Fixed Penalty Notice) is considered a conviction and is not spent until 5 years from when it was issued.
Under the rules that took effect 6 April no unspent convictions are allowed when applying for ILR.

forwardever
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Post by forwardever » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:16 am

frm my own understanding speedin is not a crime is an offence and not all traffic offence counts,accordin to ukba your offence is class as minor offence..

We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence resulting in a bind over, conditional discharge or relatively small fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable for citizenship in all other respects. By 'minor offences' we mean speeding or other 'regulatory' offences.

Offences involving dishonesty (for example theft), violence or sexual offences are not classed as minor offences. Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified are also not minor offences. ...

the same rules applies to ILR...my advice wuld be to do a CRB check if it comes out clear then u are safe secoundly you should apply in person...if you live in west midlands i would recon u use solihull PEO..they will do all checks and go thru all your documents before they ask u to pay that is if everythin if fine if not they will tell u and u wont have to pay....so dont let it bother u.....cheers


SENIORS AND EXPERTS PLS CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG...

genorp
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Post by genorp » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:43 am

That is true for citizenship but ILR is not treated the same. Remember, the government's plans are to drastically cut visas and settlement. The disregard line is in the citizenship guidance but not the settlement criminality guidance http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... detention/
where it clearly says:
If the applicant is applying for settlement on or after 6 April 2011, they must not have a conviction which is not considered ‘spent’ via the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (‘the Act’). Where they do, their application must be refused.
The only thing mentioned to disregard there is the FPN.

That is from the 8 April, 2011, update. There is nor further update on the cross-cut page with 20 April updates (where the absences calculation was updated). Of course we all hope that they would apply similar discretion but as of yet the hard line is the documented way and I don't know of anyone who has stepped forward to say they were successful after 6 April with an unspent minor traffic conviction.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:21 am

Cheekoo, because you were driving on an international licence and charges / offence(s) on international licences can only be processed through court, it is not necessary that it is a "criminal conviction".

Suggest that you check with the court or request a CRB check yourself.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

forwardever
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Post by forwardever » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:35 pm

i agree with u sushdmehta,...request a CRB check like i said if it comes back clear u are safe,and also when applyin do it in person and dont even say anythin jus let case worker go through ur documents and let him or her question u abt it,that is if it comes up on there system which i doubt..if you dont have any other conviction you think your case is straight forward u havent breached the immigration law, request a CRB check if it comes out clear mate u are safe...dont let that bother u and if you live in the west midlands use SOLIHULL PEO...

Cheekoo
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Post by Cheekoo » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:04 pm

I had my Tier-1 extended last year (Feb 2010) and at that time, in the form where it's asked that have you had any convictions (including Traffic offences) I declared this speeding ticket. So when I fill the form now for ILR will this not conflict with my earlier form where I did declare it and Now I don't mention this.
--------------------------------
Section 7.1 of the form asks -
Do you or any dependants who are applying with you have any criminal convictions in the UK or any other country (including traffic offences) or any civil judgments made against you?

Note 3 Convictions spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 need not be disclosed. More information about the Act is given towards the end of this section.
--------------------------------
Secondly, if the CRB check comes clean and I go for ILR, then I feel that I will still be carrying the risk of loosing more than £3000 (Myself + 3 dependant) Fee if my application is rejected. So do you think I can go for ILR for myself only at this stage and if all goes well then can get the ILR for the dependants done at a later date (can be done even thru post). Is that an option ?

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:50 pm

You declared your offence "assuming" that it was a criminal conviction.

If your request a CRB check and CRB report doesn't list your offence as a "conviction", then UKBA cannot can refuse your application for that reason (for not declaring a "not a unspent conviction" offence or for refusing you on the basis of "not a unspent conviction").

For the reason I have mentioned earlier, do not assume that you have a "unspent conviction".

[quote]Standard Disclosure
Also referred to as a Standard check. The Standard check contains details of all convictions held on the PNC including current and ‘spent’ convictions as well as details of any cautions, reprimands or ï¬
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

Cheekoo
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Post by Cheekoo » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:25 pm

Thanks very much guys for the help, will get the CRB check done soon.

Cheekoo
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Post by Cheekoo » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:03 pm

I was checking the process of CRB on http://www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk

it says -
CRB checks cannot be obtained by members of the public directly but are only available to organisations and only for those professions, offices, employments, work and occupations listed in the Exceptions Order to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.

For this reason your application will be processed either by your employer, if it is registered with the CRB, or a third party organisation, called an Umbrella Body, which is registered with the CRB.

So I need to go thru an Umbrella Body if I need to get the CRB check done on my own ? Searched on google and found lots of Umbrella bodies like 'Personnel Check' , 'CBS' etc. any suggestion which one should I go for?

ssoct98@hotmail.com
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Post by ssoct98@hotmail.com » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:36 pm

Most of offences done by court remain on CRB,but it depends on officers whether they categorized it as Criminal offence or not?Mostly show on enhanced CRB.So any court fine remain in record.Any court fine dealt by police so they have record in their system,so I don't think so anyone with court fine can apply before 5 years from fine date.
Any fine given by Court remains in PNC data but it will not come up on CRB record some time but I believe HO see PNC data which always shows these court fines.So getting a clear CRB don't mean its not in record.Sushmehta please suggest getting police certificate will help or not?
cheeko i am sure in Ur case its not shown on CRB.

Cheekoo
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Post by Cheekoo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:10 pm

ssoct98@hotmail.com , this is what's given on www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk, so my understanding is that if I go for Standard CRB check (as suggested by sushdmehta) it should reveal everything given below which is there on PNC and if it doesn't then it's clear that the one I got should not be of UKBA's concern for my ILR.

Standard CRB check
Is available for any position or licensing application listed in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, (Exceptions)Order 1975. Standard CRB checks show current and spent convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings held on the Police National Computer.

ssoct98@hotmail.com
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Post by ssoct98@hotmail.com » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:16 pm

Agreed now with You and sehmehta.But I have studied many persons stories on line and its being shown that some get clean CRB but on enhanced all even minor data on PNC come up,so due to this I assume that HO always check PNC data which come up with your date of birth and shows fine as all fines given by courts keep in records on PNC(Police national computer) but not on CRB(Basic).
Now its on HO what the decide,so applying is good but make sure 100% for result at least on criminality threshold.

blay1
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CRB

Post by blay1 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:30 am

I called Nacro last week and they said fines and any conviction should show on a CRB check even if it spent,but i did an Enhanced CRB check last year and a fine i had seven years ago did not show which when i told the guy i spoke to at Nacro said then i am lucky??. I don't know what other criminal check is done that will reveal all these things.

forwardever
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Post by forwardever » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:57 am

@ Cheekoo....Click the link below u will see the reason why i said use Solihull PEO,dont panic jus request a CRB check if its comes back clear u are fine and if u are still in doubt jus book appointment at SOLIHULL,go there submit ur form and documents and dont even say anythin jus let the case worker ask u questions if he needs to, dont mension anythin about ur conviction unless u were asked,if there is any problem they will deffinately tell u and if no problem they will ask u to pay and come back for you ILR...no matter where u live use solihull it will be worth the time spent to travel down there...

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... prill+2011


cheers..

ssoct98@hotmail.com
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Post by ssoct98@hotmail.com » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:06 am

Yes solihul is best place for this type of application.Blay 1 is right sometime it does not show up but you are really lucky that don't even on enhanced,I believe HO check from PNC data which keep all fines in it even smaller or big done by courts.

Cheekoo
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Post by Cheekoo » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:13 pm

I have applied for Subject Access Report (SAR) with police to see what's there on PNC, meanwhile I called UKBA and asked advise on my situation. The lady asked me to hold for 5 minutes and confirmed with his boos, and told me that with Criminality Threshold they are only looking for the serious crimes with imprisonment, or driving offenses where the driver is banned from driving for some time etc. She mentioned that SP30 is a minor offense and that will not have impact on my ILR after the new rules are implemented on 6th April 2011.

That boosted my confidence, but I will still wait for the result of my CRB/SAR and after that I will apply ILR in person, at Solihull PEO as suggested by you guys.

ssoct98@hotmail.com
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Post by ssoct98@hotmail.com » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:07 pm

Cheeko good to hear that but always keep solid documents,and get CRB and sar police file before going ahead.
Good luck

Cheekoo
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Post by Cheekoo » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:34 pm

Thanks for the valuable suggestions Sushdmehta and other members. I went ahead for ILR application after I got the SAR report from police which didn't have any convictions, which means my speeding ticket was considered as FPN and the application was successful, got ILR. Many thanks to moderator and the members who helped me here.

ssoct98@hotmail.com
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Post by ssoct98@hotmail.com » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:35 pm

Great News,so its not confirmed that Crb clear all ok and in most cases when no arrest involved than no record on PNC.
Anyhow good luck.

yhmoon
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Post by yhmoon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:42 am

Your guys' suggestions are really helpful. I also applied the basic disclosure through Disclosure Scotland, which took me one week to receive it. I had a 6 point penalty on my DVLA record as my father test drove my car without being insured and caught by the police in 2008. The record came out as clean. I have one more question: do I need to send the the basic disclourse with my application or not? Many thanks.
ssoct98@hotmail.com wrote:Great News,so its not confirmed that Crb clear all ok and in most cases when no arrest involved than no record on PNC.
Anyhow good luck.

Polat
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Post by Polat » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:17 pm

when you are going to submit your application ?

yhmoon
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Post by yhmoon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:37 pm

very soon. I have already completed the application and prepared additional documents. Just not sure whether to sent the disclosure certificate with the application or not.
Polat wrote:when you are going to submit your application ?

Polat
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Post by Polat » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:58 pm

best luck ... I hope you tell us of the outcome ...
regarding the disclosure certificate take it with you ... you might need it but it is not required as per the applicaton form

yhmoon
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Post by yhmoon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:38 pm

Thank you very much. I just double checked with the Disclosure Scotland, the basic disclosure contains only convictions considered unspent under The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. I think this will be useful. Anyway, gonna try it out tomorrow. Good Luck every one!

Polat wrote:best luck ... I hope you tell us of the outcome ...
regarding the disclosure certificate take it with you ... you might need it but it is not required as per the applicaton form

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