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Switching from WorK Permit to Tier-2 - refusal

Only for the UK Skilled Worker visas, formerly known as Tier 2 visa route

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

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roggiewaters
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Switching from WorK Permit to Tier-2 - refusal

Post by roggiewaters » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:11 am

Hi everyone

I applied for a Tier-2 General visa which was refused based on no points given for appropriate salary. (My salary is 21K and the Code of practice requires it to be 27K).

However, i was on a work permit on the same job title working for the same employer / sponsor with the same salary at the time of application. My work permit was issued in September 2008 and i was merely switching my category from WP to Tier-2 for an extension to leave to remain.

I have been issued with a right to appeal and thats what i am going to do. But looking for suggestions in light of the above matter. I have never been refused a visa before, so i am a little lost as to where to go from here.

Any comments would be very useful. Thanks everyone in advance.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:55 am

roggiewaters wrote:My salary is 21K and the Code of practice requires it to be 27K
Transitional arrangement A wrote:You must be applying to continue to work for the same employer in the same job (unless you have been working as a senior care worker - see transitional arrangement D). Your employer must be a licensed Tier 2 sponsor, and must have assigned a Tier 2 (General) certificate of sponsorship reference number to you. Your certificate of sponsorship must confirm that:

- your job is identified as skilled in the codes of practice (unless you have been working as a senior care worker - see transitional arrangement D); and
- your job is being paid at or above the appropriate rate.
Will an appeal help?
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

roggiewaters
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Post by roggiewaters » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:06 pm

Will an appeal help?[/quote]

The Tier-2 form and Tier-2 policy guidance are very misleading for the applicant. Under section L5: Attributes: Appropriate Salary it says:
The applicant has or last had entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain as a: Work Pemit Holder - 20 points

It appears to reflect UKBAs Statement of intent, transitional measures and indefinite leave to remain (February 2011 page 10)
“The new Tier 2 criteria (i.e. the requirement to be in a graduate level occupation, the new salary thresholds and the requirement to have competence in English language to level B1) and the limit will not apply to those with leave under Tier-2 or as work permit holder granted before 6 April 2011 and are seeking to extend their stay as a Tier-2 migrantâ€

arsenal49
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Post by arsenal49 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:52 pm

I think if i have been given a chance to appeal, i have to atleast try.
i say, go for it.

but just so you know.. ANYONE who gets refused visa is given the option to appeal, by law.(provided he made an in-country and on-time application)

they haven't given you the option of 'appeal' just because they think there is a doubt etc regarding your app!

They are confident of their decision already but if you still feel like hard-done, than its your right to appeal!

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:15 pm

arsenal49 wrote:ANYONE who gets refused visa is given the option to appeal, by law.(provided he made an in-country and on-time application)
Factually inaccurate statement/assertion!
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

arsenal49
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Post by arsenal49 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:31 pm

...still true, for those switching/making an app for tier 2 visas

ninja edit: ok i kno, u must be refused visa based on certain paras to get the rightof appeal, but 9/10 times you will get the right to appeal.
Last edited by arsenal49 on Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:33 pm

arsenal49 wrote:...still true, for those switching/making an app for tier 2 visas
not if they have extant leave on the date of refusal.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:36 pm

arsenal49 wrote:...still true, for those switching/making an app for tier 2 visas
No. A factually incorrect statement can never be true!

One is given the right to appeal only a decision is made on an application after the current leave has expired (or at such time that the leave will expire by the time the decision is communicated to the applicant).

This is nowhere similar or close to your assertion that
ANYONE who gets refused visa is given the option to appeal, by law.(provided he made an in-country and on-time application)
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

arsenal49
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Post by arsenal49 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:40 pm

i stand corrected... thanks

ArgieBee
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Ireland

Post by ArgieBee » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:09 am

You may want to look up the recent (from the summer) Owolabi and R Alvi cases. The tribunals found that the tier 2 visa could not be refused based on the job and salaries listed in the codes of practice.

The decisions seem to be based on the fact that the codes of practice are not lawful as they have a substantive affect on the Immigration Rules but are not set before parliament for approval.

arsenal49
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Post by arsenal49 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:56 pm

link please

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:34 pm

Life isn't fair, but you can be!

roggiewaters
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Appeal submitted

Post by roggiewaters » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:19 am

To all the contributors above, i cannot thank you enough for your time and advice. It really means a lot. Fingers crossed and waiting for the hearing date now.
I will post the outcome of my appeal here, so watch this space.

@Argiebee - thanks a lot for pointing out specific cases, i had been looking all over without luck.
@Arsenal49 - thanks for backing me up. Means a lot
@sushdmehta - thanks for the links to the cases. They really help.

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:14 pm

ArgieBee wrote:You may want to look up the recent (from the summer) Owolabi and R Alvi cases. The tribunals found that the tier 2 visa could not be refused based on the job and salaries listed in the codes of practice.

The decisions seem to be based on the fact that the codes of practice are not lawful as they have a substantive affect on the Immigration Rules but are not set before parliament for approval.

Note both of these cases were decided with reference to the immigration rules before they were amended by the Statement of Changes in July 2010 (HC382).

Note that Alvi primarily concerned the fact that the appellant's application was refused because his occupation was not NQF level 3 or above, whereas the rules at the time did not require this, rather they required that the occupation be 'skilled'. The rules were since changed in July 2010 to refer to the NQF 3 requirement.

In Owalabi, the court did found that reliance on a list of skilled occupations was not lawful because the list of skilled occupations had not been laid before parliament and were capable of being amended by the secretary of state, however the court very clearly states that:

We would draw attention, as did the Court in R (Alvi) at para 40, to the fact that the relevant provisions of Appendix A were amended in July 2010 (the court clearly had in mind HC382 which as already noted was published on 22 July and came into effect on 12 August 2010. To what extent those amendments have altered the legal position is not a question before us. Our conclusions are confined, therefore to the provisions of Appendix A pre-dating 12 August 2010

I think it is also important to know that the codes of practice, are specifically referred to in the rules.

Roggiewaters I would suggest that you seek advice from a competent immigration solicitor on your appeal.

mehtagaurav
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Post by mehtagaurav » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:03 pm

Hi,

Could you please give me details of what grounds are you appealing on?

As I have the same situation...

My salary has been refused on basis of SOC

regards,
G

roggiewaters
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Post by roggiewaters » Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:19 am

Just to let everyone know as i had promised in my last post

My appeal was allowed, making this christmas very 'merry' indeed. I still do have to wait the 5 working days to see if UKBA makes further request for appeal to upper tribunal. It will be a different kettle of fish altogether then i suppose.

I represented myself accompanied by my sponsor / employer. He gave evidence in the form of a statement in my support.

A appeal was allowed on multiple counts of 'human rights' (disproportionate interference to private life)

arsenal49, argiebee, greenie and sushdmehta.... thank you all for your time and input at various stages.

To answer sushdmehtas original question "Will an appeal help ?". Well, you never find out until you try and see if it does and it turns out that infact it did.

Thank you one and all once again. Wish you all a merry christmas and a spectacular 2012 to follow. Peace

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Post by geriatrix » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:40 am

roggiewaters wrote:To answer sushdmehtas original question "Will an appeal help ?". Well, you never find out until you try and see if it does and it turns out that infact it did.
I am glad that you did (appeal) and it worked!
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

arsenal49
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Post by arsenal49 » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:11 pm

glad to hear it, buddy...

all the best

roggiewaters
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Post by roggiewaters » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:06 pm

Dear Moderators, Gurus, and Senior Members

Its been about 9 working days since my appeal has been allowed and i have confirmation from the tribunals contact center that UKBA has not made a further request of appeal at the Upper Tribunal. (5 working days is the time limit to make a request for further appeal anyways)

Sushdmehta, Arsenal49, Greenie, Argiebee ...... It would be very kind if someone could tell me what happens from here, does UKBA contact me, do i contact them, how long before they ask for my passport back? Just looking for some general information of the process to follow.

I understand i should not start a new topic/thread in this space, so if this has been discussed somewhere else, could one of you direct me to it?

Much appreciate your help and many thanks in advance.

A very happy new year to all of you.

arsenal49
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Post by arsenal49 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:54 am

ukba are suppose to contact you but.....

knowing ukba you probably need to nudge them yourself!

search this forum as tehre was a post which listed the solution for someone who was also trying to get the visa after appeal was allowed.

the thread could be in general immigration section but im not sure

roggiewaters
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finally it arrives

Post by roggiewaters » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:09 am

Just to keep the thread updated.

Our Visa finally arrived on Saturday. A 3 year limited leave to remain on discretionary grounds.

I have a 2 questions however, if the Gurus and Senior member would be kind enough to shed some light on the matter.

1) The new visa issue date is 22nd March 2012 and my last valid visa had expired on 22nd September 2011. (My original visa application was in time and valid done on 19th August 2011) The six month gap is when i had appealed UKBAs decision, Tier One Tribunal hearing, and UKBAs processing time to implement the verdict.
I am wondering if this six month gap will affect my prospects when i apply for ILR using 10 year legal stay?

2) At the time of my original application i had completed 3 years of legitimate time on Work Permit. Can i use those 3 years + 2 years of my current discretionary visa to apply for ILR (5 year settlement)?

Here's a sequence of my case if it helps

Work Permit Application - 22/09/2008 (Granted for 3 years until 22/09/2011)
Tier 2 Application - 19/08/2011
Biometric Test Enrolment - 28/08/2011
Work Permit Visa Expires - 22/09/2011
Biometric Test - 03/10/2011
UKBA decision - 20/10/2011 (Visa Refused)
Appeal lodged - 03/11/2011
Tier One Tribunal hearing - 08/12/2011
Decision served - 24/12/2011 (Appeal allowed)
UKBA requests return of Passports - 10/03/2012
New Visa issued - 22/03/2012 (3 years validity)

Once again i appreciate all of yours time in this forum. This board has been of great help in the last 5 months since i first came looking for advise.

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