Does Nationality matter for Non EU spouse travelling in EU

craftynick · Post by **craftynick** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:42 am

Hi, I am Irish & my husband is Nigerian & has a UK resident card. We were due to fly out to Amsterdam this morning & I had our marriage cert with us & also the print out from the Dutch embassy stating that as a holder of the resident card & travelling with me he did not need a visa.

However Easyjet refused to let us board & the reason given was that Ducth immigration said that he still needed a Schengen visa due to his nationality. Now i researched this loads & never saw any mention that it was nationality specific, am i wrong?? Also we previously contacted the Spanish embassy & advised of his nationality we were advised a visa was not needed!

Understandably i am both livid & confused today, any advice greatly welcome.

Punjab · Post by **Punjab** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:10 am

Dear Member,

You were a victim of harrasment and beloved ( indirect). If your husband was with you at the time of boarding the flight there is no way he was denied entery to any schengen country as by law.

Under Directive 2004/38/EC, a family member of an EU/EEA national does not require a visa for the Netherlands if he/she qualifies as a family member of a Union citizen to whom the provisions of this directive apply. The type of residence permit, the country of residence of the EU/EEA national and the actual details of the trip will determine if a visa is required for the specific trip.

http://www.dutchembassyuk.org/consular/index.php?i=261

they do mention about some other permitt.. so do check if it was different than the one in your husban'ds passort.

Now what you have to do is complaint to easy jet on the ground of harresment and also to dutch authority on ground of indirect beloved.

also there is no need for you guys to take any prrof of your marrige with you

Now visit these sites

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... G_10036233

http://www.sue-the-airline.com/complain ... lines.html

best wishes and i hope they will fix your filights and give your money back....

dasjoker · Post by **dasjoker** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:11 am

You can point out Schengen Border Guard handbook

http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.en06.pdf

Quote:

6. ‘Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement’ are nationals of EU Member
States, EEA countries and Switzerland, as well as members of their family, regardless of
their nationality, accompanying or joining them.
:
:

3. Special rules for checks on certain categories of persons
3.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement

3.1.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement are authorised to cross the border
of a Member State on the basis of the following documents, as a general rule:
– EU, EEA, CH citizens: identity card or passport;
– members of the family of EU, EEA, CH citizens who are nationals of a third country:
passport. They may also be required to have an entry visa, if they are nationals of a third
country subject to the visa obligation, unless they are in possession of a valid residence
permit or card, issued by a Member State (or by EEA countries or CH).

3.1.2 However, if a person enjoying the Community right of free movement does not have the
necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned must, before turning him/her back, give such person every reasonable
opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to him/her within a
reasonable period of time or corroborate or prove by other means that he/she is covered by
the right of free movement.

3.1.3 As a consequence, checks on persons enjoying the Community right of free movement
should be limited, as a general rule, to the verification of their identity and nationality
/family ties (so-called “minimum check”, see above point 1.4). No questions concerning
the purpose of travel, travel plans, employment certificate, pay slips, bank statements,
accommodation, means of subsistence or other personal data should therefore be asked to
them.

Punjab · Post by **Punjab** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:14 am

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 007:EN:PDF

craftynick · Post by **craftynick** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:38 pm

Thank you for your replies. Yes my husband was with me & I showed the Easyjet manager the print out from the Dutch embassy website that stated clearly that as his residency card stated that he was a family member of an EU person (or whatever the correct wording is) that he was freely entitled to travel with me.

Since them I have emailed my complaint to Easyjet & told them I want it in writing why we were refused. I have also contacted the Dutch embassy to ask them exactly where does it state that this directive does not apply to Nigerians and also to the European Commission, asking them for clarification on this matter & what I can do next. I will certainly not be letting this lie!!

Punjab · Post by **Punjab** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:49 pm

nick do stand for yourself

they should pay for your flight full and may be your train fair to the airport.. if you will sue them you have more chances to win..

best wishes

craftynick · Post by **craftynick** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:52 am

Trust me im as far from a quiet mouse as you can get, as soon as i get clarification that they were in the wrong I will do everything possible to make them pay for it, not only for myself who has had had her wedding anniversary/christmas pressie to my husband ruined at an expensive & humiliating cost but also to try help others being spared the same

keffers · Post by **keffers** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:51 pm

Punjab wrote:Dear Member,

You were a victim of harrasment and beloved ( indirect).

Unsubstantiated comments such as those above do not help anyone.

People do make errors of judgement. The people dealing with check-ins etc at airports are not highly experienced immigration officers.

The person attempting to travel clearly knew there would be issues and that is why so much additional documentation was being carried.

Common sense would dictate that clarification in writing should have been obtained from Easy Jet in advance.

Consulates can give wrong advice; immigration advisers can give wrong advice; immigration officials can give wrong advice and people on this board can give wrong advice. Mistakes happen.

Playing the race card helps no-one.

Azhaar · Post by **Azhaar** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:23 pm

keffers wrote:
Punjab wrote:Dear Member,

You were a victim of harrasment and beloved ( indirect).
Unsubstantiated comments such as those above do not help anyone.

People do make errors of judgement. The people dealing with check-ins etc at airports are not highly experienced immigration officers.

The person attempting to travel clearly knew there would be issues and that is why so much additional documentation was being carried.

Common sense would dictate that clarification in writing should have been obtained from Easy Jet in advance.

Consulates can give wrong advice; immigration advisers can give wrong advice; immigration officials can give wrong advice and people on this board can give wrong advice. Mistakes happen.

Playing the race card helps no-one.

true .. normally citizens of nigeria need visas to visit european countries unless like your husband is a family member of an eea.. but not everyone know that

Guerro · Post by **Guerro** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:34 pm

Well, I went to Amsterdam with " my wife at that time" and we used easy jet and there was no problem. Only my passport, UK residence card and marriage certificate and nobody either easy jet, UKBA or Dutch immigration authorities asked for more.

craftynick · Post by **craftynick** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:14 pm

Easyjet have now replied to my email, the said the reasons that he was refused were -

1. Mr George did not have a Schenghan Visa to permit travel. (obviously this shouldnt have been needed under 2004/38/EC
2. Mr George also only had a residence document for Liverpool and his UK entry clearance was out of date (His residency has another 4 years left on it so that is just lies)
3. The easyJet agent at Belfast International called Amsterdam immigration but the refused travel for Mr George as the documentation that he had was not sufficient to allow travel (not surprised if they told him his residency was out of date!!)

They also confirmed, in writing, that I was travelling with him. Now that I have advised them of all this & told them that I will see them in court, thay are now launching a full investigation

Punjab · Post by **Punjab** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:17 pm

well dont nick,

once i went to HUngary by my wife on my side and this jet2.com checking agent told me i am not allowed to flying today as i have no schengen visa. i told her i dont need a visa as my eu member is with me.. so she was trying to get more funny to me.. i asked for the manager and she asked me to step a side while she call her manager.. i said no i am standing here infront of u as my rights are being voilated.. anyways so this manager came and phoned someone i belive to the airport in hungary as it was sat and embassy dont open.. so they let me in but i did tell them to upgrade their records...

you have full right to sue easyget and immigration also.. you need to get all of your ticket fair back plus a rebooking.

you need to make a record of time date etc when this happen as they are lying to you and you can request a cctv check up also...

best wishes

Punjab · Post by **Punjab** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:17 pm

keffers wrote:
Punjab wrote:Dear Member,

You were a victim of harrasment and beloved ( indirect).

Playing the race card helps no-one.

You shared your opinion and I shared mine. Coman Sense shows both type of discrimination...

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:57 pm

Guerro wrote:Well, I went to Amsterdam with " my wife at that time" and we used easy jet and there was no problem. Only my passport, UK residence card and marriage certificate and nobody either easy jet, UKBA or Dutch immigration authorities asked for more.

Yes, that is how it should be and in fact, either residence card or marriage certificate should be sufficient (not both), but of course it is better to have a bit of documentary overkill.
The problem is usually not with immigration authorities (of whatever EU country) but with the travel companies (airlines, ferries, etc.) who refuse boarding, fearing the high fines they face when bringing illegal immigrants with them. The socalled budget airlines have an especially bad reputation in this respect, although in your case it was apparently all handled correctly.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:23 pm

craftynick wrote:Easyjet have now replied to my email, the said the reasons that he was refused were -

1. Mr George did not have a Schenghan Visa to permit travel. (obviously this shouldnt have been needed under 2004/38/EC
2. Mr George also only had a residence document for Liverpool and his UK entry clearance was out of date (His residency has another 4 years left on it so that is just lies)
3. The easyJet agent at Belfast International called Amsterdam immigration but the refused travel for Mr George as the documentation that he had was not sufficient to allow travel (not surprised if they told him his residency was out of date!!)

They also confirmed, in writing, that I was travelling with him. Now that I have advised them of all this & told them that I will see them in court, thay are now launching a full investigation

Don't go to court yet: first claim the maximum compensation under the European Denied Boarding Directive.
Very nice they confirmed you were travelling together - that should make any legal procedure a piece of cake!

craftynick · Post by **craftynick** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:28 pm

Yeah I acted all nice when I got them to confirm everything in writing & didnt mention courts etc until I had all i needed. Because they are trying to say now that his residency was out of date I had an email from their escalation team this morning asking me to send a copy of our travel documents which I did immediately so they can see that was just a big fat lie

Directive/2004/38/EC · Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:06 am

craftynick wrote:Hi, I am Irish & my husband is Nigerian & has a UK resident card. We were due to fly out to Amsterdam this morning & I had our marriage cert with us & also the print out from the Dutch embassy stating that as a holder of the resident card & travelling with me he did not need a visa.

However Easyjet refused to let us board & the reason given was that Ducth immigration said that he still needed a Schengen visa due to his nationality. Now i researched this loads & never saw any mention that it was nationality specific, am i wrong?? Also we previously contacted the Spanish embassy & advised of his nationality we were advised a visa was not needed!

Since your real husband has a Residence Card, there is no need for a visa. Does not matter what nationality he has.

But, if he hypothetically did not have the RC, then he might or might not require a visa. Whether he did would actually depend on his nationality, or more accurately which passport he is traveling on. If he was using a Canadian or Japanese passport he would not require a visa. If he was using a Nigerian passport then he would require a visa.

Punjab · Post by **Punjab** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:14 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
craftynick wrote:

Since your real husband

can't stop smiling... does she have a fake one also... i have a doll he he

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:54 am

craftynick wrote:Yeah I acted all nice when I got them to confirm everything in writing & didnt mention courts etc until I had all i needed. Because they are trying to say now that his residency was out of date I had an email from their escalation team this morning asking me to send a copy of our travel documents which I did immediately so they can see that was just a big fat lie

it seems they only looked at the EEA Family Permit, which probably is out of date already indeed, and overlooked (or ignored) the Residence Card?

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:05 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:But, if he hypothetically did not have the RC, then he might or might not require a visa. Whether he did would actually depend on his nationality, or more accurately which passport he is traveling on. If he was using a Canadian or Japanese passport he would not require a visa. If he was using a Nigerian passport then he would require a visa.

If you are a visa national and travel alone you do need a visa indeed. However, if you travel with your EU spouse and have proof of the marriage with you, you will be allowed entry into Schengen (or non-Schengen EU countries) even without visa (based on the BRAX/MRAX case). The challenge in this case is to get to the border in the first place: airlines may refuse boarding.

craftynick · Post by **craftynick** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:03 pm

fysicus wrote:
craftynick wrote:Yeah I acted all nice when I got them to confirm everything in writing & didnt mention courts etc until I had all i needed. Because they are trying to say now that his residency was out of date I had an email from their escalation team this morning asking me to send a copy of our travel documents which I did immediately so they can see that was just a big fat lie
it seems they only looked at the EEA Family Permit, which probably is out of date already indeed, and overlooked (or ignored) the Residence Card?

Nope i thought about this but as they mentioned that it was "only issued in Liverpool" his family permit doesnt mention here at all but his residency does so they definitely saw the right document!!

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:53 am

Well yes, then they must have seen it but apparently haven't properly read or understood it. I can't even understand their reasoning.

Do they really believe that there exists such a thing as a residence permit that is valid only in Liverpool (or Merseyside, to be generous)????

Of course, a budget airline cannot spend fortunes to hire the best and the brightest, but even at Easyjet people cannot be so stupid, or am I wrong?

Of course, your RC was issued in Liverpool, because every RC is issued there, because that is where the UKBA office is that handles EEA applications, and it is totally irrelevant in any discussion.

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