EEA RESIDENT CARD REFUSAL HELP

I am an Austrian national living in UK from 4 years with my wife.my parents are struggling to survive in India.i was sending money to them from 6-7 month.i thought its easy if they stay here with me.they came on tourist visa & i applied resident card for parents they are non eea national..i got refusal letter from ho saying it doesn't look they are dependant on me.i made a appeal in court my solicitor saying there is no need to show dependacy.date is in Jan next year.can anybody advice on this.
thanks

I think solicitor is wrong, they are required to show dependancy in the UK.
The evidence has to show they need your support to meet their essential needs.
He may be right if he said they are not required to show evidence of dependency in India, but they certainly do in the UK.
What evidence did you provide? and what do you have now

I sent my passport, salary slip, my & wife bank statement, my house registry. etc but i think solicitor did not state that they are dependant.
My father lost his business & everything in beginning of this year. Now I got only my bank statement showing I transfer money from April 2011 to India for there needs.
Can you recommend any other docs to show in court
Thanks

Please don't shout.

sorry for that

Hi ,

This is same as the refusal of my father (EEA application) in Dec 2011, if the dependant living with EEA national son and Depended father got no Employment, no other income, What documents can we provide to show the financial dependancy except a letter in writing ? please help .
Does not the Dependancy imply automatically ?
Please help

Same with me don’t know what docs for support. Just got money transfer statement.

The evidence must show that having regards to their circumstances, they are not in the position of supporting themselves at the time of making their application, without the material support you provide to them.

Evifence can be adduced by any means. However simply showing money transfer does not discharge the burden of proof. You have to show that without the money you sent them, they would not have been able to meet their basic needs.

Most of us send money to relatives overseas, but it is not all the time those money are for there material needs, sometime it could be for property development. Or for other purpose.

Loads of thanks obie
I am confused with technical language, let me elaborate
My father lost his home & everything in India, he use to deal in commodities & share market. He is here from September & I am taking care of them.
If you please give me example of docs what he needed from India.
I will try to arrange.
Thanks

sorry for that

Really? Really sorry?

On the internet posting in block capitals is equivalent to shouting, and on this board posts in block capitals are liable to be deleted without warning.

soory i dont know the rules.can somebody help me with docements to arrange for hearing.

I have edited your previous posts, to reflect forum policy, by changing the Sentence case to lower case.

I can safely assume you have understood, and will adhere to forum policy in future, by the compliance in your last post.

I cannot specify what documents you should produce, i can only advice on the position of the law. It is for you and possibly your solicitor to decide how you can show you comply with the provisions of the law.

I must warn you though that there is a possibility that the evidence your father produced to the British High commission in India prior to the visitor's visa being issued may be produced in court.

If dad provided evidence showing he owns a business in India, and he is coming to visit son in UK, and will be self-sufficient in UK, and since his arrival in UK, there is no evidence or material change in the circumstances, this may have effect on credibility, and may make a judge unpersuaded that he is genuinely dependent on you.

If however he stated you will be supporting the visit, and paying the flight, it will help to add support to your claimed dependency.

I wish you all the best with your appeal.

thanks really appriciated you help
i got letter today from ho saying same thing as you told.they gone back to old records march 2011 & saying your father had enough money on that time.but he dont have any business since may now due to up downs.he closed his company as well.he submit at the time of application only his company account statement. & bank overdraft limit letter against fixed deposit.evertything gone now & bank account is 50-100 pound.do you think
if i take bank staement or company closing docs.it can help.
i dont know how can i show dependecy.

thanks

i was sending money to them from 6-7 month

they gone back to old records march 2011 & saying your father had enough money on that time

On the face of it there is a discrepancy between those two statements. Or please explain.

ho check the docs when my father applied visitor visa in march 2011.the docs which he submitted was bank statement of his company account.fixed deposits,which i can get letter from bank saying that was cancelled in may.
that money he gave back to bank & creditors.


i start sending money in may which was for debts & his living,heclosed his company in may.since than i was helping him.the ony thing we got house in india which fifty percent in my name.my father got no other resources.

thanks

When did he actually enter the UK on his visitor visa? And when he did enter on that visitor visa, did he really have any intention to return to India?

he came to u.k on 12 september for permanent stay.before he came
i took advice from soilicitor is it legal to apply eea2 from here as he hasnt got eea family permit.he said ok & no need of dependecy docs.thtwhy i am
stuck.



thanks

I don't think there is need to discuss the solicitor or any advice he gave you in the past as he/she is clearly wrong or don't seem to know the law well as far as i can see.

Yes there is no bar on someone especially spouse , dependant parents or even extended family members coming in with a visitors visas. The courts or the HO don't like it, they would rather those people apply for an EEA family permit from overseas so they could be scrutinised there and it is cheaper and easier to refuse from overseas, however they cannot simply refuse because someone came in with a V visa.

Mrs Jia in the case of Jia entered with a visitors visa and she secured a Residency visa under EU law.

I am not happy with this solicitor chap for saying dependancy is not a requirement.

The issue for your dad is, he applied for that visa as self- sufficient, before he entered the UK , his circumstance is alleged to have changed before he entered, but he possibly did not inform the immigration officer. He came in September with this visa, knowing he will be staying.

If you can properly deal with these issues on witness statement and show or possibly give oral evidence which are credible and the judge believe you then you will succeed.

By the way are both your parents over 65 yet.

he came to u.k on 12 september for permanent stay.

There is the problem, he did not have a visa for a permanent stay. Had he mentioned to the Immigration Officer at the Port of Entry that he intended to stay permanently he would not have been allowed into the UK, but simply returned straight back to India.

Expect UKBA to fight you all the way. And even take steps to deport him.

By the way, you have told us he applied for the Visitor visa in March, but when was that visa actually granted?

[Moderator edit : You have been warned that posts in block capitals are liable to be deleted without warning. So now that has happened. Stop shouting!]

father is 57 mother 55

sorry for caps again

john sir visa was granted in march

I believe this is a situation where OP might have fallen victim of poor advice from an immigration consultant.

Under regulation 11(4), the parents might have been able to secure entry even with the visitors visa, if they could have convinced the Immigration officer they are Dependent family member of Kapil.

Strictly speaking the directive does not specify which kind of visa people should hold, and national immigration rules from which EEA family permit originated, cannot be applied to dependent family members who are covered by regulations 7, provided of course they are able to show they are indeed dependent family members.

I was thinking they might qualify if they met all the condition of the immigration rules 318 E other than entry clearance, even if they were not able to show they live under the most exceptional circumstance in India, but they are both under 65.

How does your solicitor intend to proceed, is he still of the view that they qualify without the evidence of dependency?

Lots of these so called advisers are getting things wrong big time. Yes the directive provides that children or parents who fail to show dependency may qualify under Article 3(2) of the directive, but they are failing to understand without the parents and the EEA national providing proof that prior to the EEA national entering the UK, the parents and the EEA national lived together in an household owned by the EEA national, they will not qualify.

These parents who are unable to meet the conditions as dependent family members, are expected to meet all the conditions in Regulation 8(2) and even meeting those condition is not final, the issue of residence Card to them is discretionary, although this discretion is not unfettered. An extensive examination of the personal circumstances of these people will have to be undertaken, and a justification of any refusal provided.

Have you any evidence that this business is broken down, that father is bankrupt?

A fixed deposit is different from an overdraft, to my little knowledge of accounting, if dad showed them he had a fixed deposit, that means it is money that he owned.

Where they aware he has an EEA national son in the UK, with who he will be residing?

Where has the money he showed to the British High commission gone. Was it stolen, was the bank liquidated?

fixed diposit was also under company name not personal and bank statements was also under comapny name.
he use to deal in commodities like shares,when the market fells he lost everything.he is not trading anymore since may 2011.


thanks

Obie wrote:Yes the directive provides that children or parents who fail to show dependency may qualify under Article 3(2) of the directive, but they are failing to understand without the parents and the EEA national providing proof that prior to the EEA national entering the UK, the parents and the EEA national lived together in an household owned by the EEA national, they will not qualify.

Hi Obie, one question though. I'd like to know if it has to be an household "owned by the EEA national"? In the Directive, it says "members of the household of the Union citizen", but doesn't seem to emphasize on the ownership of the property itself?

Thanks.