EEA4 residence card and EU visa free travel

My spouse had a 5 years residence card "spouse of EU/EEA citizen" based on an EEA2 application. this residence card allowed her to travel visa free to most EU countries when traveling with myself.
We applied now for EEA4 and I'm wondering if the permanent residence card that comes with this application still allows us to travel visa free in the EU. (as I'm planning our summer holidays)

Yes it does.

aye he should be either travelling with you or travelling to join you in the eu country then (he will need visa for transition in case he is travelling to join you )

Would Permanent residence obtained after 5 years not entitle him to even travel on his own?

immaculatestuff wrote:Would Permanent residence obtained after 5 years not entitle him to even travel on his own?

No Mate the rules are same for EEA4 as for EEA2 until you obtain red passport

anyways te only difference having eea4 on eea 2 is that when you come back to the UK borders then it doesn’t matters if your eu/eea national is in the UK or not. So you are free from all immigration rules which are for eea2. but at the end of the day you do need a visa to travel out of the uk if your eu paertner is not in the eu country or schengen country and you are not travelling with him/her.

immaculatestuff wrote:Would Permanent residence obtained after 5 years not entitle him to even travel on his own?

well he can certainly trevel on his own, but may require visa for some member state.

My spouse now received th PR card, however it doesn't say spouse of EEA national on the RC, like it said on the first card which was valid for the first five years after the EEA2 application.
By the looks of it some countries want to see it mentioned on the RC that thye holder is a spouse of an EU national:
http://www.dutchembassyuk.org/consular/index.php?i=261

So I'm a bit worried if the will let us through

You are not the first to ask this question. You have an article 20 residence card (PR). The format is not specified in the directive. The UK chose not to mention the directive anywhere on the card.

The short answer is that it can be used just as the article 10 card (RC), but you may find some airlines and border cards are unfamiliar with it.

Post back your experiences as you travel. It may be a good idea to also bring your expired article 10 card if you still have it.

An update
Traveled through Eurotunnel to France.
If you pre booked you can go through automatic check in. I ended up in a manned queue. The person at check in didn't ask for a passport, basically because the French border control is on the UK side of the tunnel and if teh paperwork is not in order they will send you back.
Moved on to the French border control, handed over my wife's brand new passport with new permanent UK RC, which doesn't mention spouse of EU citizen (I had the old passport with the 5 year EEA2 residence card and a lot of other paperwork in a separate folder in case they needed it)
The border guy flipped a few times through the passport, made a phone call and waved us through, not even a stamp.

Eirikur wrote: and waved us through, not even a stamp.

Good story, well done

Hi Guys,

I understand that if you are a family member of EEA and travelling with her/him then you dont need to apply visa for Spain or other member state. But, I dont want to take any risk or waste my time with immigration officer OR airline so, I booked my appointment for spanish visa on 25th Sept'12 next week. I am just wondering whether, I need to pay visa fees (as I am travelling with my EEA wife). Second problem is I have PR status and its not written that I am a family member of an EEA and spanish visa requirement clearly state that your residence permit must state that your are a family member of an EEA. I just don't want to pay VISA fee.

pinkpanter wrote:spanish visa requirement clearly state that your residence permit must state that your are a family member of an EEA. I just don't want to pay VISA fee.

If your residence card states "family member of EEA national" no visa required. Although PR Confirmation doesn't state so it should still allow visa free travel. It is advisable to carry your marriage certificate with you.

If you still wish to apply for a visa, the visa is free and this is clearly stated on the Spanish consulate website:

SCHENGEN VISA APPLICATION FEES wrote:There will be no charge for the spouse and/or dependants of an EU citizen. However, proof of the relationship must be submitted at the time of application. This proof must be an original EU full national passport or national ID card and an original marriage certificate or civil partnership, (birth certificate in the case of children or dependants). Photocopies are not acceptable. Non EU Certificates should be legalised according to the 1961 Hague Convention.

I suggest you also make sure you provide the evidence according to CONDITIONS OF APPLICATION - DOCUMENTS REQUIRED ON THE APPOINTMENT DATE.

Jambo wrote:

pinkpanter wrote:spanish visa requirement clearly state that your residence permit must state that your are a family member of an EEA. I just don't want to pay VISA fee.

If your residence card states "family member of EEA national" no visa required. Although PR Confirmation doesn't state so it should still allow visa free travel. It is advisable to carry your marriage certificate with you.

If you still wish to apply for a visa, the visa is free and this is clearly stated on the Spanish consulate website:

SCHENGEN VISA APPLICATION FEES wrote:There will be no charge for the spouse and/or dependants of an EU citizen. However, proof of the relationship must be submitted at the time of application. This proof must be an original EU full national passport or national ID card and an original marriage certificate or civil partnership, (birth certificate in the case of children or dependants). Photocopies are not acceptable. Non EU Certificates should be legalised according to the 1961 Hague Convention.

I suggest you also make sure you provide the evidence according to CONDITIONS OF APPLICATION - DOCUMENTS REQUIRED ON THE APPOINTMENT DATE.

Thanks Jambo! you always very helpful!

I was thinking the same. Just wanted second openion, so I just give them copies of my EEA ID and Marriage certificates.

I suggest you also make sure you provide the evidence according to CONDITIONS OF APPLICATION - DOCUMENTS REQUIRED ON THE APPOINTMENT DATE .

Do I need medical and travelling insurance and Bank statement for funds as well providing I am travelling with my EEA spouse?

pinkpanter wrote:

I suggest you also make sure you provide the evidence according to CONDITIONS OF APPLICATION - DOCUMENTS REQUIRED ON THE APPOINTMENT DATE .

Do I need medical and travelling insurance and Bank statement for funds as well providing I am travelling with my EEA spouse?

No.

Was just reading this from this website:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

Arriving at the border without an entry visa

It's always best for your non-EU family members to be well informed in advance and have all the necessary documents before starting their journey.

However, if they arrive at the border without an entry visa, the border authorities should give them the opportunity to prove by any means that they are your family members. If they manage to prove it, they should be issued with an entry visa on the spot.

Some countries may fail to apply EU law correctly, and your family members may be denied their rights. If your family members are having difficulties getting a visa, you can contact our assistance services.

pinkpanter wrote:Hi Guys,

I understand that if you are a family member of EEA and travelling with her/him then you dont need to apply visa for Spain or other member state. But, I dont want to take any risk or waste my time with immigration officer OR airline so, I booked my appointment for spanish visa on 25th Sept'12 next week. I am just wondering whether, I need to pay visa fees (as I am travelling with my EEA wife). Second problem is I have PR status and its not written that I am a family member of an EEA and spanish visa requirement clearly state that your residence permit must state that your are a family member of an EEA. I just don't want to pay VISA fee.

I just came from Spanish embasy. After giving my documents, she asked me that I don't need to pay visa fee as an EEA family member however, do need to pay there admin fee of £17 if you apply at 'vfs office' plus £1.20 for text msg when your passport is ready to collect. I told her that it shoud be fully free of charge as I never paid any fee in the past and also I am travelling with my EEA wife. But, she refused to accept my application without £17 fee and advice me that it is written on their website. After the argument I paid it.

She also told me that it will take 4 weeks as your country is on this list. I again objected that as a family member of an EEA it should be quick as I never had this problem in the past. But, she again told me that she cannot do anything as what the law says. I asked her full name which she gave me.

I am realy not happy with that and want to complain. Please can anyone advice whether they are right to charge me £17 fee and whether it should take 4 weeks??

See related link. What documents did they ask for?

sum1 wrote:See related link. What documents did they ask for?

Thanks Sum1!

Now I am wondering how and where to complain??

pinkpanter wrote:Hi Guys,

I understand that if you are a family member of EEA and travelling with her/him then you dont need to apply visa for Spain or other member state. But, I dont want to take any risk or waste my time with immigration officer OR airline so, I booked my appointment for spanish visa on 25th Sept'12 next week. I am just wondering whether, I need to pay visa fees (as I am travelling with my EEA wife). Second problem is I have PR status and its not written that I am a family member of an EEA and spanish visa requirement clearly state that your residence permit must state that your are a family member of an EEA. I just don't want to pay VISA fee.

Read this thread.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 2&start=80

Directive 2004/38/EC in English:

Article 5

2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an
entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national
law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in
Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas
shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

Directive 2004/38/EC in Spanish

Artículo 5

2. Los miembros de la familia que no tengan la nacionalidad de un Estado miembro sólo estarán
sometidos a la obligación de visado de entrada de conformidad con el Reglamento (CE)
nº 539/2001, o, en su caso, con la legislación nacional. A los efectos de la presente Directiva, la
posesión de la tarjeta de residencia válida contemplada en el artículo 10 eximirá a dichos miembros
de la familia de la obligación de obtener un visado.
Los Estados miembros concederán a dichas personas todas las facilidades para obtener los visados
que precisen. Estos visados se expedirán gratuitamente lo antes posible, mediante un procedimiento
acelerado.

See also the transposition into Spanish domestic law: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... nfo-spain/

sum1 wrote: What documents did they ask for?

They asked for Marriage certificate, passports (both), Bank statement for proof of address and visa stating family member of EEA. Although, she was argueing with me that your visa (PR) doesn't say that you are a family member of an EEA and thats really irritated me and I replied "but, this (marriage certificate and old RC) do say that I am a family member of an eea. She was saying all the time that I have to follow the list which she has provided. Then I asked her manager named Margarita and she accept my PR as family member but did insist to pay service fee and advice that it will take at least 4 weeks to process visa. nonsence.

Anyway, I m more concern about my passport receive on time (hope with visa)

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Directive 2004/38/EC in English:

Article 5

2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an
entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national
law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in
Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas
shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

Directive 2004/38/EC in Spanish

Artículo 5

2. Los miembros de la familia que no tengan la nacionalidad de un Estado miembro sólo estarán
sometidos a la obligación de visado de entrada de conformidad con el Reglamento (CE)
nº 539/2001, o, en su caso, con la legislación nacional. A los efectos de la presente Directiva, la
posesión de la tarjeta de residencia válida contemplada en el artículo 10 eximirá a dichos miembros
de la familia de la obligación de obtener un visado.
Los Estados miembros concederán a dichas personas todas las facilidades para obtener los visados
que precisen. Estos visados se expedirán gratuitamente lo antes posible, mediante un procedimiento
acelerado.

See also the transposition into Spanish domestic law: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... nfo-spain/

Thanks Directive/2004/38/EC!

I do understand that I dont need visa if I am visiting with my EEA spouse to any EEA state. However, I dont want to make my journey uncomfortable and urguing with airlines and IO regarding my valid visa etc.

pinkpanter wrote:

sum1 wrote: What documents did they ask for?

They asked for Marriage certificate, passports (both), Bank statement for proof of address and visa stating family member of EEA. Although, she was argueing with me that your visa (PR) doesn't say that you are a family member of an EEA and thats really irritated me and I replied "but, this (marriage certificate and old RC) do say that I am a family member of an eea. She was saying all the time that I have to follow the list which she has provided. Then I asked her manager named Margarita and she accept my PR as family member but did insist to pay service fee and advice that it will take at least 4 weeks to process visa. nonsence.

Anyway, I m more concern about my passport receive on time (hope with visa)

Thanks for the list. It is really silly to ask for a RC when you have to hand in the marriage certificate anyway... I wonder why they ask for a proof of address but maybe they just want to issue visa to residents (which, I think, should not apply to family members). According to Article 23(1) in the Visa Code the visa must be issued within 15 calendar days.

sum1 wrote:

pinkpanter wrote:

sum1 wrote: What documents did they ask for?

They asked for Marriage certificate, passports (both), Bank statement for proof of address and visa stating family member of EEA. Although, she was argueing with me that your visa (PR) doesn't say that you are a family member of an EEA and thats really irritated me and I replied "but, this (marriage certificate and old RC) do say that I am a family member of an eea. She was saying all the time that I have to follow the list which she has provided. Then I asked her manager named Margarita and she accept my PR as family member but did insist to pay service fee and advice that it will take at least 4 weeks to process visa. nonsence.

Anyway, I m more concern about my passport receive on time (hope with visa)

Thanks for the list. It is really silly to ask for a RC when you have to hand in the marriage certificate anyway... I wonder why they ask for a proof of address but maybe they just want to issue visa to residents (which, I think, should not apply to family members). According to Article 23(1) in the Visa Code the visa must be issued within 15 calendar days.

Thats what I am thinking. My visa shoud be issued within 15 days without regard what nationality you have got.