Staying in Ireland

Hi,

I'm 23 years old and I was born in Ukraine, where I lived the first part of my life, until my parents were offered money (really) to move to Israel (on the grounds that my dad is Jewish), and because things financially were bad, they took it. In a nutshell, they ended up in a new country, with no money and having made the mistake of their lives, and the rest is history.
Ever since I can remember, I've been trying to get out of there, and I finally saved enough and came to Ireland as a student. I'm in my second year and I won't be able to afford my third year because the cost is just too much. My problem is - I can't go back. For me, going back to that country (and most of you will probably laugh out loud at what I'm about to say) is a fate worse than death. I wanted to go to college, it's true, and I still do, but the primary reason for this drastic step was to get out of Israel and come here (Ireland), to a place where I'm safe and where I have a chance at a future.
I'm not qualified at anything, I'm a self taught web designer and have in fact worked in that job for a year back in Israel, but correct me if I'm wrong, that won't get me a work permit.
Can I apply for asylum at this stage or will I be deported on the spot? I'm honestly and truly afraid of that country, and if you ever lived there or have been listening to the news in the last - oh, 50 years - you would know why.

I realize this question might sound retarded to many of you, but what can I do? What are my options and what are my chances?


Please help; any help will be appreciated.


Thanks,


Maria

I can pretty much guarantee that an asylum claim from a Ukraine-born Israeli is not going to be positively viewed in any EU country. Israel was historically founded by individuals attempting to create a refuge for worldwide Jews (i.e., your father). You're going to have to try something else. Marriage, perhaps?

Asylum claims have been established for those who have a legitimate fear of persecution, torture or death at the hands of their regime. Do you really believe that an Irish court is going to entertain that claim in your specific case? They're going to see you as an economic migrant and will expect you to apply for a continued stay as such. In that regard, it's probably best to take steps that have a credible chance of success. Claiming asylum from Israel for you is not one of them.

I can pretty much guarantee that an asylum claim from a Ukraine-born Israeli is not going to be positively viewed in any EU country.

Forgive my ignorance here, but why? Wwhat is so specific about that combination?

Israel was historically founded by individuals attempting to create a refuge for worldwide Jews (i.e., your father).

What does it matter what it was founded for? It was founded with the blood of people, mostly young people, and these people still die more every day in that country. Nobody is safe there, not Jews, not Arabs, no one. There is a reason why Israel is not on the list of safe countries. Bearing that in mind together with the human rights abuse andreligious abuse in that country, it can be called everything but a refuge.

You're going to have to try something else. Marriage, perhaps?

That, I think we can agree, is much easier said than done. Potential husbands to stay in a country don't axactly wait in line.

Asylum claims have been established for those who have a legitimate fear of persecution, torture or death at the hands of their regime.

Been to Israel lately?

Do you really believe that an Irish court is going to entertain that claim in your specific case?

Again, you mention my specific case and I simply don't understand what is so specifically impossible about it. No, I don't believe. If I were sure about a course of action, I would not be asking other people for advice.

They're going to see you as an economic migrant and will expect you to apply for a continued stay as such.

I think it is obvious (and will be obvious to them) that I am not an economic migrant, seeing as economically I'd be more secure in a country in which I have rights.

In that regard, it's probably best to take steps that have a credible chance of success.

Which brings me back to my original question, such as?

Claiming asylum from Israel for you is not one of them.

I really need you to explain to me, please, what is so specific about me.



Maria

if you dont want to go back to mideast, you can always go back to ukraine, can u? plus, here is the question. are your parents from ukraine or they re from another eastern europe country(which joined eu in 2004). why not check out your ancester and see if they re from another place. if let say you great grandparents from the country whcih joined eu 2004, you might be eligable to get the passport from those country, so good luck!

Listen, I'm not going to debate you point by point. This is your application. Go ahead and try it. I'm just saying you might want to consider a Plan B.

Good luck.

mktsoi wrote:if you dont want to go back to mideast, you can always go back to ukraine, can u? plus, here is the question. are your parents from ukraine or they re from another eastern europe country(which joined eu in 2004). why not check out your ancester and see if they re from another place. if let say you great grandparents from the country whcih joined eu 2004, you might be eligable to get the passport from those country, so good luck!

No, my parents, all of my family as far long as anyone can remember are from Kiev and the surroundings. I do have a Polish surname but that's probably dating back to the dark ages. I could go back to Ukraine, yes, but financially, it's not a doable option (believe me, I wish it were).

RobinLondon wrote:Listen, I'm not going to debate you point by point. This is your application. Go ahead and try it. I'm just saying you might want to consider a Plan B.

Good luck.

I'm not asking you to debate with me point by point, I was asking generally for advice, that's all. As for your post, I honestly want to know why you find my specific case so impossible (I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I just really want to know because I only got from your post what not to do, but not a why).

I imagine RobinLondon means because typically neither the Ukraine or Israel are countries from which people flee for fear of persecution. The definition used by DOJ is

A refugee is a person who fulfils the requirements of Article 1(A) of the 1951Geneva Convention. A person should be recognised as a “refugee” where s/he can show a well-founded fear of persecution in his/her country of origin on the grounds of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.

Another group are those who are "Eligible for Complementary Protection"

A person who is in need of international protection, but falls outside the terms of Geneva Convention may be eligible for complementary protection. The person must have a well-founded fear of being subjected to other serious harm in their country of origin but does not need to prove individual persecution on the basis of ‘race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion’. This may include persons fleeing generalised violence, civil war or even victims of natural disasters.

I imagine it would be quite difficult to prove that you fitted into the clas of a refugee to apply for asylum. You could always contact the Irish Refugee Council www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie if you wish to pursue this approach further. Applying for refugee status is a pretty difficult approach to take and quite difficult to prove. You only have to hear the statistics on the news or on the Justice website to see how many fail in their applications.

Have you tried looking for funding for your course? Some Universities offer bursaries, or grants for disadvantaged students. I dont know that they are offered to foreign students though. Best thing is to ask your University Guidance counceller for advice on this.

As you are in the country, you cannot apply for a Working Visa/Authorisation, but you may be eligible for a Work Permit. The main thing is you need to find an employer who is willing to sponsor you for this. You should check out for more details at http://www.oasis.gov.ie/employment/work ... rmits.html

You haven’t mentioned what you’re studying at college? I personally know people who have received job offer while in Ireland and had their work authorisations issued in London, this is only possible if you don’t require a visa and assuming you're an Israeli citizen this might be an option, unless your course doesn’t qualify for a work authorisation.