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Is this standard text on Citizenship Ceremony Invitations?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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scrudu
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Is this standard text on Citizenship Ceremony Invitations?

Post by scrudu » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:47 am

Hi folks,

Hubbie just received his invitation to the ceremony on April 1st. We have a holiday booked for those dates so are wondering about whether he can refuse this date for a future date, or whether we should cancel our plans to attend this ceremony. The invitation letter says the following:
Attending a citizenship is mandatory. If you are unable to or do not attend on this day you will be re-scheduled for a future ceremony. Please be aware however that, as the Division is working over the coming months to eliminate the backlog of standard applications awaiting a decision, demand for ceremony places is high and there may be a considerable delay before a further place becomes available.
Did this appear on all invitations for other ceremonies? Has anyone refused the date offered in lieu of a future date? Were they sent an invitation for the next date or were they left waiting. Given that he's waited so long for the application to be considered, I am worried that he'll be dumped to the bottom of the bundle for the next time.

adlexy
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Re: Is this standard text on Citizenship Ceremony Invitation

Post by adlexy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:23 pm

scrudu wrote:Hi folks,

Hubbie just received his invitation to the ceremony on April 1st. We have a holiday booked for those dates so are wondering about whether he can refuse this date for a future date, or whether we should cancel our plans to attend this ceremony. The invitation letter says the following:
Attending a citizenship is mandatory. If you are unable to or do not attend on this day you will be re-scheduled for a future ceremony. Please be aware however that, as the Division is working over the coming months to eliminate the backlog of standard applications awaiting a decision, demand for ceremony places is high and there may be a considerable delay before a further place becomes available.
Did this appear on all invitations for other ceremonies? Has anyone refused the date offered in lieu of a future date? Were they sent an invitation for the next date or were they left waiting. Given that he's waited so long for the application to be considered, I am worried that he'll be dumped to the bottom of the bundle for the next time.
They will probably just forget you till next year if you miss out on that date - tough one with holidays booked!

knapps
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Post by knapps » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:45 pm

If you ask my honest opinion, I would cancel my holidays and attend the Ceremony. Holiday you can go anytime in life. This is vital day!

Irisheddy
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Gift Horse

Post by Irisheddy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:24 pm

There is an old expression :Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

How many of the 50,000 undocumented migrants would like to have your problem? Well nobody else except you seems to consider it a problem.

Go ahead and say you have a prior arrangement. The mere fact that you have to ask shows that it is not very important to you. Don't be surprised at the reaction you get

scrudu
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Re: Gift Horse

Post by scrudu » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:20 am

Irisheddy wrote:There is an old expression :Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

How many of the 50,000 undocumented migrants would like to have your problem? Well nobody else except you seems to consider it a problem.

Go ahead and say you have a prior arrangement. The mere fact that you have to ask shows that it is not very important to you. Don't be surprised at the reaction you get
Who the hell do you think you are to make a comment like that to someone you don't even know? A Gift???? I don't think so. To be offered citizenship one has to comply with a list of requirements and checks.

How dare you try to make ANY connection between illegal undocumented migrants in the US and LEGAL migrants who have been through years of mishandling and appalling treatment by the Irish immigration system. Why on earth would they ever be offered citizenship given that they have already shown their disregard for that country's immigration rules?

Of course getting citizenship is important to my husband as it is to me, otherwise he wouldn't have applied over 3.5 years ago having completed the required residency period, nor would he have paid the 950EUR fee. Just because it is important doesn't mean that everything else is less important, or that it's not conceivable that he'd prefer another date.

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Re: Gift Horse

Post by walrusgumble » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:51 pm

scrudu wrote: Who the hell do you think you are to make a comment like that to someone you don't even know?
Calm down, it is an Irish saying, it is not meant to offend anyone at all! In other words, now that you have Citizenship, do what you have to do to get that document and not be awaiting another 6 months for another chance. Jeez, you are going to have problems in this country with that carry on.

scrudu wrote: A Gift???? I don't think so. To be offered citizenship one has to comply with a list of requirements and checks.
A very small price to pay, especially how easy it is to comply with the said conditions, in comparison to other countries. Being granted citizenship of another country, any country, is one of the highest honours a non national (of that country) could obtain from their host country. As for the term "gift" the poster was not referring to citizenship as a "gift".
scrudu wrote: How dare you try to make ANY connection between illegal undocumented migrants in the US and LEGAL migrants who have been through years of mishandling and appalling treatment by the Irish immigration system.
What mishandling and appalling treatment?
scrudu wrote:
Why on earth would they ever be offered citizenship given that they have already shown their disregard for that country's immigration rules?
Many could ask the same question, as some got their status via IBC 05 scheme via questionable asylum cases that which they later cancelled. But they are here so, get on with it.

Again, the poster was not trying to offend you at all. So relax.

If anyone has got the letter, they should sort that out, immediately, it should be number 1 priority
scrudu wrote: Of course getting citizenship is important to my husband as it is to me, otherwise he wouldn't have applied over 3.5 years ago having completed the required residency period, nor would he have paid the 950EUR fee. Just because it is important doesn't mean that everything else is less important, or that it's not conceivable that he'd prefer another date.
Fair enough, but the poster was correctly pointing out, that for once, get this citizenship issue sorted now when you are called, and not when it suits you.

Alternatively, once you calmed down, contact the Department with a view of making other arrangements, after all, your excuse is genuine and understandable. What if ye had to leave Ireland for a family emergency for example. And, as you note, since you have waited 3.5 years for it, maybe it is fair that alternative arrangement's can be made. Don't expect much flexibility though

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Re: Gift Horse

Post by Irisheddy » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:30 pm

scrudu wrote:
How dare you try to make ANY connection between illegal undocumented migrants in the US and LEGAL migrants who have been through years of mishandling and appalling treatment by the Irish immigration system. Why on earth would they ever be offered citizenship given that they have already shown their disregard for that country's immigration rules?
I am just after seeing this now. Thanks Walrus for correcting scrudu on the other matters. Scrudu, I gather English is not your first language and you have difficulty understanding the use of proverbs. However you should really try to relax and ensure you understand the post before flying off the handle (That's another expression!)

You also appearing to be imagine words that were not even in my post. NOWHERE did I make any mention anything about illegal undocumented migrants in the US. Check back and have a relaxed reread of my post and you will see that this is not the case. I was referring to the undocumented migrants here in Ireland who would love to have a problem like your husband's. I don't know how you got "in the US" out of that.

I think Walrus put it best when he said: "Jeez you are going to have problems in this country with that carry on!"

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Re: Is this standard text on Citizenship Ceremony Invitation

Post by Dee1 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:56 am

scrudu wrote:Hi folks,

Hubbie just received his invitation to the ceremony on April 1st. We have a holiday booked for those dates so are wondering about whether he can refuse this date for a future date, or whether we should cancel our plans to attend this ceremony. The invitation letter says the following:
Attending a citizenship is mandatory. If you are unable to or do not attend on this day you will be re-scheduled for a future ceremony. Please be aware however that, as the Division is working over the coming months to eliminate the backlog of standard applications awaiting a decision, demand for ceremony places is high and there may be a considerable delay before a further place becomes available.

I would strongly advise you Scrudu to defer your holiday plans. If there's anyway you can cancel it and get some refund, if not all, but not to miss the citizenship ceremony on the 1st of April. You're really close to getting it now, after waiting all those years. I can assure you that, you wouldn't get any other date sooner.
I have also read all the other comments on here. I gotta say that as a non-national, Irish citizen is a privilege to us, we're not entitled to it, we gotta prove that we deserve it, hence the background checks and long wait.
All am saying is, be grateful, you're soon gonna be a naturalized Irish citizen. I know for one that when I become an Irish citizen in April, I'll get something nice for my 3 Irish references on my application to show my appreciation.

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Post by scrudu » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:08 pm

Thanks for the unhelpful and mostly rude or offensive comments by Dee1, Walrusgrumble and IrishEddy. Seriously, they were a joy to read.

Just because citizenship has been granted, doesn't mean that you have to turn into a slavering idiot and drop all else ignoring the consequences.

To close out on the original post requesting advice about the Citizenship Ceremony letter, for anyone else who may be unable to attend a citizenship ceremony for whatever reason, simply phone the Citizenship Division and explain the situation. Their recommendation was to write a letter explaining the same. DH phoned and wrote a letter requesting he partake in a ceremony at a later date due to prior commitments. He has since been sent a letter confirming him for the June ceremony instead.

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Post by walrusgumble » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:14 pm

scrudu wrote:Thanks for the unhelpful and mostly rude or offensive comments by Dee1, Walrusgrumble and IrishEddy. Seriously, they were a joy to read.

Just because citizenship has been granted, doesn't mean that you have to turn into a slavering idiot and drop all else ignoring the consequences.

To close out on the original post requesting advice about the Citizenship Ceremony letter, for anyone else who may be unable to attend a citizenship ceremony for whatever reason, simply phone the Citizenship Division and explain the situation. Their recommendation was to write a letter explaining the same. DH phoned and wrote a letter requesting he partake in a ceremony at a later date due to prior commitments. He has since been sent a letter confirming him for the June ceremony instead.
Sweet Lord, read your posts, the only rude and aggressive poster was you ' it started with you completely misunderstanding a comment made by another. Everyone else responded to you in kind with rudeness.

If your the caliber of "new Irish" with that behavior, please don't bother applying for Citizenship, your self regarding self righteous attitude can be taken elsewhere.

We have been unhelpful by providing accurate and honest answers to your problem? Great.

At the time, the Department had not indicated that these ceremonies would be on on a regular basis ala once every 3 months. The Department are known for not being accommodating to immigrants. There are plenty of threads on this site to confirm it



"Just because citizenship has been granted, doesn't mean that you have to turn into a slavering idiot and drop all else ignoring the consequences"

Who said that you do? Reading something that is not there I see.

What consequences was there for dropping a holiday for something far more important (hint EU citizenship)

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:36 pm

walrusgumble wrote:Sweet Lord, read your posts, the only rude and aggressive poster was you ' it started with you completely misunderstanding a comment made by another. Everyone else responded to you in kind with rudeness.

If you sincerely believe that, I'd suggest you re-read the comments posted.
walrusgumble wrote:If your the caliber of "new Irish" with that behavior, please don't bother applying for Citizenship, your self regarding self righteous attitude can be taken elsewhere.
Walrusgrumble: From the posts you've posted over the last 6 years I've been using this forum, you obviously know quite a bit about immigration, but your attitude when responding to people has generally been pretty arrogant and at times obnoxious or rude. In the past I simply decided to ignore any of your posts and many other long term posters have done the same. As you comments are directed at me and not my husband (the person who has been granted citizenship) I'll point out that I've been Irish since birth, so fortunately I won't have to pass the walrusgrumble personality vetting process ;) Thank God you are not representative of the Irish people I grew up with. I do feel sorry for other immigrants who post questions to these boards who may not know the same
walrusgumble wrote:We have been unhelpful by providing accurate and honest answers to your problem? Great.
Disagree wholeheartedly
walrusgumble wrote:At the time, the Department had not indicated that these ceremonies would be on on a regular basis ala once every 3 months. The Department are known for not being accommodating to immigrants. There are plenty of threads on this site to confirm it
The reasons given for why he should drop his prior engagement in favour of attending the date offered were not to do with the regularity of ceremonies, but rather that he should be so grateful of his application being granted, that it should be the most important thing in his life and that he should drop any other plans in favour of attending the ceremony. It has been a long hard slog (you only have to read my or others previous posts to figure this out) to get to this point, so obviously he's overjoyed. Just because that is true, does not mean that he should attend on a date that doesn't suit simply because it was the date offered.
walrusgumble wrote:What consequences was there for dropping a holiday for something far more important (hint EU citizenship)
The consequences are really none of your concern. But regarding "what's important": Let's be clear here, as per my initial post, he didn't want to "not attend" a citizenship ceremony, but wanted to attend at another date. This has always been possible prior to the ceremonies when a person simply organised a suitable date with the local courts.

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Post by walrusgumble » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:09 pm

scrudu wrote:
walrusgumble wrote:Sweet Lord, read your posts, the only rude and aggressive poster was you ' it started with you completely misunderstanding a comment made by another. Everyone else responded to you in kind with rudeness.

If you sincerely believe that, I'd suggest you re-read the comments posted.
In response to the post of Irish Eddy’s comments at 14/2/2012, which said

“There is an old expression :Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

How many of the 50,000 undocumented migrants would like to have your problem? Well nobody else except you seems to consider it a problem.

Go ahead and say you have a prior arrangement. The mere fact that you have to ask shows that it is not very important to you. Don't be surprised at the reaction you get”

You unjustifiably went ballistic, clearly not understanding the term “don’t look a gift hoese in the mouth” and deemed it offensive, and got all self righteous and self entitlement over an honest and very direct comment made by Irish Eddy

By saying

“Who the hell do you think you are to make a comment like that to someone you don't even know? A Gift???? I don't think so. To be offered citizenship one has to comply with a list of requirements and checks.

How dare you try to make ANY connection between illegal undocumented migrants in the US and LEGAL migrants who have been through years of mishandling and appalling treatment by the Irish immigration system. Why on earth would they ever be offered citizenship given that they have already shown their disregard for that country's immigration rules?

Of course getting citizenship is important to my husband as it is to me, otherwise he wouldn't have applied over 3.5 years ago having completed the required residency period, nor would he have paid the 950EUR fee. Just because it is important doesn't mean that everything else is less important, or that it's not conceivable that he'd prefer another date.”


I then came in and explained that the term was not offensive. I also pointed out that your priorities, in light of waiting around for so long, were wrong as the Department, in the past were prone to ignore people like you who would later seek to rearrange new dates.

You flew off the handle, and as Irish EDDY fairly pointed out afterwards
“You also appearing to be imagine words that were not even in my post. NOWHERE did I make any mention anything about illegal undocumented migrants in the US. Check back and have a relaxed reread of my post and you will see that this is not the case. I was referring to the undocumented migrants here in Ireland who would love to have a problem like your husband's. I don't know how you got "in the US" out of that.”

Well done by the way, hot head

You treat someone they way that you did, expect a return of the same treatment.


Your were in the wrong to react in this way. You did not even read what other posters said, but distort what was said.

scrudu wrote:
walrusgumble wrote:If your the caliber of "new Irish" with that behavior, please don't bother applying for Citizenship, your self regarding self righteous attitude can be taken elsewhere.
Walrusgrumble: From the posts you've posted over the last 6 years I've been using this forum, you obviously know quite a bit about immigration, but your attitude when responding to people has generally been pretty arrogant and at times obnoxious or rude.
Only when responding to people who have made arrogant or retarded comments which were easily verifiable, or idiots who refuse to read or seeking clarification as to what others said before replying.

You were told something that you did not like. You misread what was said. Thankfully, we were wrong on this occasion. But you react like that again, in the real world you better duck and dive, people won't put up with such tosh, especially when only a piece of paper proves that your "one of us"
scrudu wrote: In the past I simply decided to ignore any of your posts
Continue to do so , so. You would unlikely have said anything remotely useful anyway and would have been easily rebutted. (but if you were right, I would have conceded or agree with you)
scrudu wrote: and many other long term posters have done the same.
In the long arguments over Zambrano and Dereci, it would have been wise of them to have done that from day 1, or, at the very least, have read the sources provided, instead of going feet first into an area which they had little or no knowledge of, and was too influenced by emotions.
scrudu wrote: As you comments are directed at me and not my husband (the person who has been granted citizenship) I'll point out that I've been Irish since birth, so fortunately I won't have to pass the walrusgrumble personality vetting process ;)
I beg your pardon, I taught that, by the way you wrote your replies, that you were not Irish. Ah, that explains the self righteous clap trap so.
scrudu wrote: Thank God you are not representative of the Irish people I grew up with. I do feel sorry for other immigrants who post questions to these boards who may not know the same
Ah your the spineless ones who comment but believe in the "not in my back garden" type - well, for you on this occasion, not quite.
scrudu wrote:
walrusgumble wrote:We have been unhelpful by providing accurate and honest answers to your problem? Great.
Disagree wholeheartedly
That is your opinion. Your entitled to it.
scrudu wrote:
walrusgumble wrote:At the time, the Department had not indicated that these ceremonies would be on on a regular basis ala once every 3 months. The Department are known for not being accommodating to immigrants. There are plenty of threads on this site to confirm it
The reasons given for why he should drop his prior engagement in favour of attending the date offered were not to do with the regularity of ceremonies, but rather that he should be so grateful of his application being granted, that it should be the most important thing in his life and that he should drop any other plans in favour of attending the ceremony.
You were told, clearly, that the department would likely forget you in the future in their next lists. (Previously a Court list) I explained that this was serious as it might take ages before the next list to come round. 3 people pointed out to you, that since he has it in the bag, get it over and done with NOW. The reasons explained above.

That is why it was recommended that you drop everything.

Also, the department, previously actually did not take to kindly to such requests. Glad to see that they are now more flexible
scrudu wrote: It has been a long hard slog (you only have to read my or others previous posts to figure this out) to get to this point, so obviously he's overjoyed.
The whole point of posters like my self pointing out that it should be addressed now so not to thrown years of hard slog down the drain by waiting longer for a date to get sworn in, where maybe you really needed that passport.
scrudu wrote: Just because that is true, does not mean that he should attend on a date that doesn't suit simply because it was the date offered.
All that we did was tell you how things rolled in the past. It was up to you to take note of it. Ignore it if you wanted. (how is this rude by the way?)

But not to come crying if you ignored it.

I doubt anyone here would be disappointed to here that our suggestion was wrong. However, it was based on honest and accurate opinion (at that time) - again that was not rude
scrudu wrote:
walrusgumble wrote:What consequences was there for dropping a holiday for something far more important (hint EU citizenship)

The consequences are really none of your concern
No they are not and I couldn't give a feck either.

.You had sounded like you were belittling the seriousness of husband getting citizenship and the actual honour that it is for any immigrant in any host state. You know how important EU status is to non nationals
scrudu wrote: But regarding "what's important": Let's be clear here, as per my initial post, he didn't want to "not attend" a citizenship ceremony, but wanted to attend at another date.
To which we pointed out, that such an attitude might be taken up wrongly by the department, as it had done so on a number of occasions. We were not giving our own personal opinions on this
scrudu wrote: This has always been possible prior to the ceremonies when a person simply organised a suitable date with the local courts.
Rarely actually, depending on where you were from - Dublin, no problem - other counties, the registrar of the court could be awkward. More to the point, the ceremonies were not held as frequent as they are now (obviously to deal with back logs)


Again, glad to hear all is well

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:42 pm

scrudu wrote:
To close out on the original post requesting advice about the Citizenship Ceremony letter, for anyone else who may be unable to attend a citizenship ceremony for whatever reason, simply phone the Citizenship Division and explain the situation. Their recommendation was to write a letter explaining the same. DH phoned and wrote a letter requesting he partake in a ceremony at a later date due to prior commitments. He has since been sent a letter confirming him for the June ceremony instead.
This was a very helpful follow up. If one can't make a ceremony, one can ask to re-book.

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Post by linn » Thu May 10, 2012 10:01 pm

scrudu:

You already had some idea in mind and still posted the question, you were just hoping somebody support your decision to go on holiday, and if other people suggested different ideas as yours, you defined them as unhelpful.

People weight Naturalisation invitation differently. Don't think above posts were unhelpful and rude. In my opinion, the most aggressive person was you, you replied almost every post and did not show any appreciation. Go and scr*w yourself.

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