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Bad experience at Heathrow

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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maviesk
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Post by maviesk » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:42 am

Yes it was a UKBA issued residence card (the 5 year one)

Here is a copy of the letter I received back from the UKBA.. I think I emphasised the fact that I thought I received poor service at the border and my guessing is that that's what triggered the compensation..

Here's the letter I got (via e-mail)

Dear Mr W

Thank you for your email dated 14 November 2011 regarding you and your partner’s experience at Brussels on 13 November 2011. It has been passed to me as the officer responsible for handling your complaint. Before I respond to your specific concerns I would like to assure you all complaints about the UK Border Agency’s Border Force staff are treated seriously and are used as an opportunity to learn and improve services.

In your correspondence you mention you are an Irish citizen and your partner holds an EEA family residency card. When you arrived at Brussels the Border Force officer stamped your partner, Mr T's passport. When you remonstrated with the officer explaining she shouldn’t have stamped Mr T’s passport she was rude and dismissive saying ‘what difference would it make.’ The chief immigration officer who you also spoke to explained an officer may stamp the passports of holders of EEA family permits at their discretion.

You have requested an apology for the rude and dismissive attitude of the officer. Additionally you would like a written statement saying Mr T’s passport should not be stamped, as per regulations.

In line with our usual procedures, which are set out in detail at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/about ... acomplaint, I have asked the operational manager to assess the circumstances relating to the matter you have complained about. This process involved speaking with the officers concerned. With this work now complete, I have based my response on their findings.

You are correct in your understanding of Regulation 11(3) which specifies ‘an officer may not place a stamp in the passport of a person who holds a residence card when he/she is admitted to the UK’. Although the officer was right in stating the stamping of Mr T’s passport would not disadvantage him, she did make an error, for which I apologise.

I regret you perceived the officer was rude and dismissive, as this was not her intention.

We expect high standards of professionalism from our officers in their dealings with the public; they perform a very demanding and difficult job and are required to do so with integrity at all times.

Where we could have performed better our policy is to consider offering a consolatory payment. These payments are intended to recognise unjustified inconvenience, annoyance, frustration, worry or distress to a customer. Such payments are ex-gratia, which means they are considered a favour rather than a matter of right.

I believe in the circumstances of this case it would be appropriate to offer such a payment and I propose to offer £25 to Mr T.

Our accountancy procedures require acceptance to be given in writing and I would be grateful if Mr T would complete the enclosed form and return it to this address.

Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience this incident caused. If you believe your complaint has not been dealt with in the right way you may write to us at the address above and a complaints manager will check the process used to look into your complaint, to ensure it was both appropriate and followed correctly. You must do this within one month of the date of this letter.

We are keen to continually review and improve our services. To help us do so, we would be grateful if you could complete a short online survey. Please access the survey using the following link: http://feedback.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/ ... 35927hosbt

Yours sincerely

-----------

To be honest, the greatest satisfaction wasn't really the money, it was knowing that the miserable woman at border control got a talking to, probably thinking that I wouldn't bother her again after she'd called over the CIO.. Little did she know :)

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:55 pm

Very good for you! It always make me feel very nice when people are clear about the law and get things sorted out.

ca.funke
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...

Post by ca.funke » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:16 pm

maviesk wrote:it would be appropriate to offer such a payment and I propose to offer £25...
£25 makes sense. If it happens 3 or 4 times, you have the price for a new passport covered. If it happens 10 or 15 times, then you have the trip to the embassy covered.

So if they plaster you passport with unneeded stamps, you can at least get a new passport without loss...

I love to see that "maviesk" went through with the complaint and got something out of it :) After all, the UK-internal complaint procedure at least works (if they consider the law on your side), unlike my experience from the Commission so far, where nothing ever happens...

maviesk
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Post by maviesk » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:52 pm

Naturally, I no longer head to border control with the intent of mentioning anything about stamps before the IO takes the passport.. Funnily enough, the last two times we went through have been totally uneventful, not even a single question.. Perhaps that wrote something on their records :D

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Fantastic work. Keep complaining people, it will get through eventually.

flames
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Post by flames » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:25 pm

I came back from Graz, Austria yesterday and landed at Stanstead. The flight was already delayed and i had a National Express coach funfare ticket thus i could not afford to miss the coach to central London.

I then joined the ''other passports queue'' as it was far much shorter. Just before i got to the IO a UKBA lady who was sitting on a chair in front of the queue asked and insisted for a landing card. I politely told her that i do not need one as i hold an EU residence card as a family member but she was saying if you are using this queue you need to complete a landing card. Luckily my turn to see an IO came before i could continue the pointless conversation with the lady.

This time around the IO knew what he was doing. I presented my passport with the Residence card page open and initially he said where is your landing card? then he quickly realised i do not need to complete one. He just checked the authenticity of the passport and did not ask me any questions. He even went on to say that next time you can join the EU queue but just remember to present your passport to the IO with the Residence card page open. I was pleased to deal with someone who knew what he was doing but it also makes me wonder why some IO's know and apply the law correctly and why some IO's do not?.

On a different note; In Graz at exit passport checks i encountered an IO who spent 15 minutes in total examining my UK issued EU residence card and French issued Schengen visa. He even took out some magnifying glass and thoroughly scanned the scengen visa and residence card. He repeatedly inserted my passport into a machine to check it's authenticity. All this happened without him even asking me any question until i asked him ''what the problem was?'' and he mumbled in half German, half English about doing his job and then he quickly stamped the passport and gave it back to me with a hardly disguised annoyed look on his face......

Ikonkar
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Heathrow

Post by Ikonkar » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:03 pm

Hi All,

Thought I should share my short story, arrived at Heathrow last night, wasn't travelling with my EU Wife, at UK Border Control I stood in other passports Que., didn't filled in landing card either. Upon showing my passport she(Immigration Officer) asked me few questions about my wife (where she's working, what nationality, etc etc. I answered all the questions confidently, she smiled and said welcome back!!!

No Stamp on passport either.

GOD BLESS
Ikonkar

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:05 pm

flames wrote:I came back from Graz, Austria yesterday and landed at Stanstead. The flight was already delayed and i had a National Express coach funfare ticket thus i could not afford to miss the coach to central London.

I then joined the ''other passports queue'' as it was far much shorter. Just before i got to the IO a UKBA lady who was sitting on a chair in front of the queue asked and insisted for a landing card. I politely told her that i do not need one as i hold an EU residence card as a family member but she was saying if you are using this queue you need to complete a landing card. Luckily my turn to see an IO came before i could continue the pointless conversation with the lady.

This time around the IO knew what he was doing. I presented my passport with the Residence card page open and initially he said where is your landing card? then he quickly realised i do not need to complete one. He just checked the authenticity of the passport and did not ask me any questions. He even went on to say that next time you can join the EU queue but just remember to present your passport to the IO with the Residence card page open. I was pleased to deal with someone who knew what he was doing but it also makes me wonder why some IO's know and apply the law correctly and why some IO's do not?.

On a different note; In Graz at exit passport checks i encountered an IO who spent 15 minutes in total examining my UK issued EU residence card and French issued Schengen visa. He even took out some magnifying glass and thoroughly scanned the scengen visa and residence card. He repeatedly inserted my passport into a machine to check it's authenticity. All this happened without him even asking me any question until i asked him ''what the problem was?'' and he mumbled in half German, half English about doing his job and then he quickly stamped the passport and gave it back to me with a hardly disguised annoyed look on his face......
I wonder was the lady you mentioned insisting that a landing card was required actually working for UKBA. The reason I suggest this is that BAA often hire queue helpers who are not necessarily familiar with the rules.

Good story about the person at the UK desk.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Re: Heathrow

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Ikonkar wrote:Hi All,

Thought I should share my short story, arrived at Heathrow last night, wasn't travelling with my EU Wife, at UK Border Control I stood in other passports Que., didn't filled in landing card either. Upon showing my passport she(Immigration Officer) asked me few questions about my wife (where she's working, what nationality, etc etc. I answered all the questions confidently, she smiled and said welcome back!!!

No Stamp on passport either.

GOD BLESS
Ikonkar
Great. It's not all bad. The message is perhaps getting through.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:09 pm

flames wrote:I came back from Graz, Austria yesterday and landed at Stanstead. The flight was already delayed and i had a National Express coach funfare ticket thus i could not afford to miss the coach to central London.

I then joined the ''other passports queue'' as it was far much shorter. Just before i got to the IO a UKBA lady who was sitting on a chair in front of the queue asked and insisted for a landing card. I politely told her that i do not need one as i hold an EU residence card as a family member but she was saying if you are using this queue you need to complete a landing card. Luckily my turn to see an IO came before i could continue the pointless conversation with the lady.

This time around the IO knew what he was doing. I presented my passport with the Residence card page open and initially he said where is your landing card? then he quickly realised i do not need to complete one. He just checked the authenticity of the passport and did not ask me any questions. He even went on to say that next time you can join the EU queue but just remember to present your passport to the IO with the Residence card page open. I was pleased to deal with someone who knew what he was doing but it also makes me wonder why some IO's know and apply the law correctly and why some IO's do not?.

On a different note; In Graz at exit passport checks i encountered an IO who spent 15 minutes in total examining my UK issued EU residence card and French issued Schengen visa. He even took out some magnifying glass and thoroughly scanned the scengen visa and residence card. He repeatedly inserted my passport into a machine to check it's authenticity. All this happened without him even asking me any question until i asked him ''what the problem was?'' and he mumbled in half German, half English about doing his job and then he quickly stamped the passport and gave it back to me with a hardly disguised annoyed look on his face......
On the other hand, your passport should not have been stamped in Gratz.

fysicus
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Post by fysicus » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:11 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I wonder was the lady you mentioned insisting that a landing card was required actually working for UKBA. The reason I suggest this is that BAA often hire queue helpers who are not necessarily familiar with the rules.
That is indeed the case; the jobtitle of this lady is presenter and she is not a UKBA employee. My wife recently had a collision with one of them in Manchester, which triggered a complaint from me to both the airport and UKBA (as I think UKBA should have overall responsibility for the entire passport checking process). The response from the airport follows:
Manchester Airport wrote:I am sorry to hear about your experience in immigration. As you are aware, the presenters are employed to present passengers to immigration on the airline's behalf and the company that does this in Manchester is OCS. I have passed your feedback on to OCS and they have replied informing me that general guidance from immigration is to ensure that passengers join the correct queue which means EU passport holders join the EU queue and non-EU passengers fill out landing cards. Unfortunately, where passengers have been granted a special dispensation from the Home Office the presenters have not been trained to verify the authenticity of such documents as this is the role of the Immigration Officer.

I apologise for the inconvenience when you were processing through immigration and OCS have assured me that they will use your feedback to liase with Immigration to try and resolve the issue in future and ensure that passengers travel through the airport as smoothly as possible.

flames
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Post by flames » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:21 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
flames wrote:I came back from Graz, Austria yesterday and landed at Stanstead. The flight was already delayed and i had a National Express coach funfare ticket thus i could not afford to miss the coach to central London.

I then joined the ''other passports queue'' as it was far much shorter. Just before i got to the IO a UKBA lady who was sitting on a chair in front of the queue asked and insisted for a landing card. I politely told her that i do not need one as i hold an EU residence card as a family member but she was saying if you are using this queue you need to complete a landing card. Luckily my turn to see an IO came before i could continue the pointless conversation with the lady.

This time around the IO knew what he was doing. I presented my passport with the Residence card page open and initially he said where is your landing card? then he quickly realised i do not need to complete one. He just checked the authenticity of the passport and did not ask me any questions. He even went on to say that next time you can join the EU queue but just remember to present your passport to the IO with the Residence card page open. I was pleased to deal with someone who knew what he was doing but it also makes me wonder why some IO's know and apply the law correctly and why some IO's do not?.

On a different note; In Graz at exit passport checks i encountered an IO who spent 15 minutes in total examining my UK issued EU residence card and French issued Schengen visa. He even took out some magnifying glass and thoroughly scanned the scengen visa and residence card. He repeatedly inserted my passport into a machine to check it's authenticity. All this happened without him even asking me any question until i asked him ''what the problem was?'' and he mumbled in half German, half English about doing his job and then he quickly stamped the passport and gave it back to me with a hardly disguised annoyed look on his face......
On the other hand, your passport should not have been stamped in Gratz.
You pointed that to me last time but not having carried documentary evidence to that effect( in case of an arguement), i just let it slide. There was also the language barrier issue and the fact that i carry 2 passports and the IO did not look at the old passport with the reidence card.

I made a fresh application today for them to put the residence card in my new passport as i don't want the hassle of carrying 2 passports all the time. I hope it won't take the usual 3-4 months this time around.

Do you know if UKBA backdate the residence card in the new passport or they put the date they made a decision on the fresh application?. I know it doesn't matter at the end of the day but am just curious.....

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:04 pm

fysicus wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I wonder was the lady you mentioned insisting that a landing card was required actually working for UKBA. The reason I suggest this is that BAA often hire queue helpers who are not necessarily familiar with the rules.
That is indeed the case; the jobtitle of this lady is presenter and she is not a UKBA employee. My wife recently had a collision with one of them in Manchester, which triggered a complaint from me to both the airport and UKBA (as I think UKBA should have overall responsibility for the entire passport checking process). The response from the airport follows:
Manchester Airport wrote:I am sorry to hear about your experience in immigration. As you are aware, the presenters are employed to present passengers to immigration on the airline's behalf and the company that does this in Manchester is OCS. I have passed your feedback on to OCS and they have replied informing me that general guidance from immigration is to ensure that passengers join the correct queue which means EU passport holders join the EU queue and non-EU passengers fill out landing cards. Unfortunately, where passengers have been granted a special dispensation from the Home Office the presenters have not been trained to verify the authenticity of such documents as this is the role of the Immigration Officer.

I apologise for the inconvenience when you were processing through immigration and OCS have assured me that they will use your feedback to liase with Immigration to try and resolve the issue in future and ensure that passengers travel through the airport as smoothly as possible.
Presenter - what a delightful job title!

Your complaint is important. A more meek person would perhaps just do what they are told.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:06 pm

flames wrote:
You pointed that to me last time but not having carried documentary evidence to that effect( in case of an arguement), i just let it slide. There was also the language barrier issue and the fact that i carry 2 passports and the IO did not look at the old passport with the reidence card.

I made a fresh application today for them to put the residence card in my new passport as i don't want the hassle of carrying 2 passports all the time. I hope it won't take the usual 3-4 months this time around.

Do you know if UKBA backdate the residence card in the new passport or they put the date they made a decision on the fresh application?. I know it doesn't matter at the end of the day but am just curious.....
I suspect it would be treated as a fresh application, but I'm really not sure.
Your PR time won't be affected by a new application of course.

fysicus
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Post by fysicus » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:16 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Presenter - what a delightful job title!

Your complaint is important. A more meek person would perhaps just do what they are told.
A delightful job title, indeed, for an IMHO totally redundant job! At all (non-UK) European airports that I remember, there are simply just signs: EU passports - other passports, or something like that, and passengers read these signs (or ignore them) and choose the correct queue themselves. And usually there is no penalty for choosing the wrong queue!
Unfortunately my complaint didn't attract a £25 reward though :(
Anyway, the Immigration Officer that checked my wife's passport after she managed to break the presenter barrier was fully on top of the EEA regulations and advised to complain to the airport (even spoke to me - waiting outside - on the phone to explain the situation)

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:37 pm

It's seems that there are plenty of IOs on top of the regs, which is good.

I still can't get over it - presenter, what ever next?

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:13 am

Each RC application in the UK is treated as a new application. So same evidence required and same time to a positive "decision".

Marco 72
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Post by Marco 72 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:58 pm

The story so far:

16 March - sent complaints to both UKBA and EU Commission

26 March - received acknowledgement from UKBA, saying they will reply within 20 days.

28 March - received acknowledgement from EU Commission, asking whether my wife wanted her complaint to be treated confidentially or not.

28 March - my wife replies to EU Commission, opting for non-confidential treatment of her complaint.

Do you think it's a good idea for me to complain to my MP as well, or should I wait until the UKBA complaints procedure has run its course?

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:05 pm

I'd wait for the UKBA to finish first. If not satisfied, you would be entitled to escalate.

Marco 72
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Post by Marco 72 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:19 am

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you about this. We received a reply from UKBA on 16 April. Here is the text, with some personal details removed. Thanks again to everyone who advised us in this thread.

---
Thank you for your email dated 16 March 2012 regarding your treatment at Heathrow Airport terminal 1 on 11 March 2012. It has been passed to me as the officer responsible for handling your complaint. I would like to assure you all complaints about Border Force staff are treated seriously and are used as an opportunity to learn and improve services. Details of our complaint procedures are available at: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/about ... acomplaint

Before I respond to your specific concerns you may wish to know, from 1 March 2012 Border Force operations moved from the UK Border Agency to a new command in the Home Office under a new Director General, Brian Moore. This is a full transfer of Border Force staff and responsibilities covering immigration and customs operations at the border. Our priority is to maintain border security and the change will enable a clearer chain of command between operations and ministerial policy. There will be no immediate change to the way the Border Force operates as a result of the move into the Home Office.

In your email you explain you hold a Permanent Residence Card as the spouse of an EEA citizen. When you arrived at Heathrow airport the Border Force officer asked you to complete a landing card and your residence card was stamped. You do not believe this was correct.

Your complaint has been upheld. I asked an operational manager at Heathrow Airport to investigate your concerns. She has confirmed you are not required to complete a landing card and your residence permit was incorrectly endorsed. I hope you will accept my sincere apologies for this error and for any upset and inconvenience caused.

I am unable to return your landing card to you as it has been destroyed as part of a batch sent for incineration.

Complaints are an important source of information and are used to identify trends and training needs. All officers and managers in Heathrow terminal 1 have been reminded of the correct procedures when dealing with EEA family members who hold residence permits.

I sincerely hope you will not experience any problems when you travel in the future. Should you, however, have any cause for dissatisfaction please ask to speak to the duty operational manager.

If you believe your complaint has not been dealt with in the right way you may write to us at the address above and a complaints manager will check the process used to look into your complaint, to ensure it was both appropriate and followed correctly. You must do this within one month of the date of this letter.

We are keen to continually review and improve our services. To help us do so, we would be grateful if you could complete a short online survey. Please access the survey using the following link: http://feedback.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/ ... 35927hosbt

Yours sincerely

By email
[name removed]
-----

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:39 pm

Marco 72 wrote:Sorry for the delay in getting back to you about this.
Great, keep complaining and hopefully things will improve.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:39 pm

Marco 72 wrote: I am unable to return your landing card to you as it has been destroyed as part of a batch sent for incineration.
Possibly because the data could not be used?

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Post by aledeniz » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:56 am

fysicus wrote:t all (non-UK) European airports that I remember, there are simply just signs: EU passports - other passports, or something like that, and passengers read these signs (or ignore them) and choose the correct queue themselves. And usually there is no penalty for choosing the wrong queue!
The other day I was in the other passports queue at the Istanbul Atatürk Airport, and the couple before me in the queue presented a Turkish and a foreign passport. The partner with the foreign passport got its stamp and made through, but the Turkish passport holder was sent away to the Turkish citizens queue 50m back. And I must say the policeman was clearly not really happy about it, I couldn't really follow the conversation, but it was clear the Turkish passport holder was severely scolded for his "mistake". That said, I noticed because in other European airports I have often chosen the other passports queue even tough I hold an EEA citizenship and no one has ever complained, and because my wife, a Turkish citizen, has never queued with me at Turkish ports of entry or exit, because she ever thought, it seems rightly, that what I witnessed was bound to happen if she did.

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Post by fysicus » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:51 am

When I wrote European airports, I had in mind airports in EU memberstates, and perhaps also in the non-EU Schengencountries.
Of course, there are also countries that are geographically in Europe but not in EU or Schengen, and they can have their own immigration procedures, as your description of Turkey shows.

I've never been to Turkey, but my understanding is that EU nationals even require a visa for Turkey (although you can easily get it on arrival at the airport).

aledeniz
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Turkish visa policies

Post by aledeniz » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:44 pm

fysicus wrote:I've never been to Turkey, but my understanding is that EU nationals even require a visa for Turkey (although you can easily get it on arrival at the airport).
I used to have to buy a visa at the border to enter Turkey, but for Italian citizens they have removed even that requirement years ago. Nowadays you just go at the border gate with your passport, and they stamp it when you go in and when you go out, without visa, as long as you stay for less than 90 days. AFAIK this should happen also for the citizens of other 15 EEA countries.

As far as I know:
  • Citizens of Bulgaria, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland can enter Turkey for a stay up to 90 days without a visa.
    Citizens of Latvia up to 30 days.
    Citizens of Austria, Belgium, (southern) Cyprus, Hungary, Ireland, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain and the United Kingdom can get a visa at the port of entry, paying 15 € or 10£.
    Citizens of Northern Cyprus enjoy complete freedom of movement.
I must confess I have never exactly understood why the citizens of some countries whose governments have been pretty supportive of the accession of Turkey to the EU, say the UK, Spain or Portugal, have to pay, while countries whose governments have been raising barricades, say France, Germany or Greece, are treated more favourably.

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