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Romania - Family Permit after Divorce + a Child

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ssmcss
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Location: Romania

Romania - Family Permit after Divorce + a Child

Post by ssmcss » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:25 pm

Hello,

I have already written to the help section at Europa.eu about the same, but wanted to see if I can get a quicker response from anyone.

In short: I am a non-EU citizen / Got married in the UAE with a Romanian in 2005 / Moved to Bucharest due to work in 2009 / Got a 5 yr family residence card / Caught her cheating on me in Jan 2011 / Sent her packing off to her mum the same night / Set things in motion for a divorce since Feb 2011 / Have been living separately since then / It was only in June 2012 (18 months later), that we got divorced. Uff... these Romanian courts!!!

The twist: Met another Romanian in Bucharest in Apr 2011 / Was totally smitten by her / Things moved fast / We moved in together even faster / Have been together since then / We now have a new born child / We are not married.

My Questions are:

1) Although Im employed here and can get a work permit, I would like to keep my Residency Card. Its purely because of the ease of traveling with EU with the permit.

I am not fully based in Romania. Im here maybe 2 weeks at a go and the rest of time Im out and about the region due to work.

2) I have now moved to another city in RO and about to go to the coppers here to submit the documents, informing them of my divorce, about the child, and the partner.

- What should I be expecting?
- Will they ask me to cancel my card? And come back to Rom on a new visa?
- Can I apply for another family permit based on the fact that I have a Romanian child. Whats is the definition of a Family Member ... is it only spouse? Surely, a child is one too!

Since my partner is not employed and newborn is a bit young to start earning, they both depend on me

3) Im hoping " Marriage" is not the only way out for, I m still recovering from the last one's expenses. Even the girl is not in a hurry to tie the knot nor am I.


Any advise is greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

ssmcss
Newly Registered
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:00 pm
Location: Romania

Post by ssmcss » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:48 pm

Bump!!!

No response. Someone ? Anyone ???

Obie
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Post by Obie » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:53 pm

This seem to be a Romanian Law thing in my view. You and your wife never resided in an EU country, therefore i believe you case falls purely under romanian law.

This information may be relevant to you though
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

ssmcss
Newly Registered
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:00 pm
Location: Romania

Post by ssmcss » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:22 pm

Thanks Obie,

We did reside in Romania since from 12 2009 till 01 2012. And a few yrs in the Gulf.

Anyways, Im getting it checked with some local immigration lawyers. Cheers

ssmcss
Newly Registered
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:00 pm
Location: Romania

Advice from Europe.EU regarding Romanian Resisdency.

Post by ssmcss » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:22 pm

Here is the info I got just now. Its favourable to me and I dont think I will have any issues.

Im posting it here for any future reference anyone may have.




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Your Europe Advice enquiry 109775
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:07:37 +0200 (MEST)
From: youreuropeadvice-allocations@ec.europa.eu
Reply-To: youreuropeadvice-allocations@ecas.org
To:


Dear Sir/Madam,

Please find below the reply to your enquiry. Please note that the advice given by Your Europe Advice is an independent advice and cannot be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission, of any other EU institution or its staff nor will this advice be binding upon the European Commission, any other EU or national institution.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for contacting “Your Europe Advice”!


I. Applicable legislation in this regard:

DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

This Directive was transposed by the Romanian legislation in Emergency Ordinance no. 102/2005 Published in Official Journal, Part I no. 646, 21/07/2005 regarding the free movement of citizens of the Member States of the European Union and the European Economic Area on the Romanian territory.

Article 13 of the Directive 2004/38/EC stipulates:

Retention of the right of residence by family members in the event of divorce, annulment of marriage or termination of registered partnership;

2. Divorce, annulment of marriage or termination of the registered partnership referred to in point 2(b) of Article 2 shall NOT entail loss of the right of residence of a Union citizen's family members who are not nationals of a Member State where:

(a) prior to initiation of the divorce or annulment proceedings or termination of the registered partnership referred to in point 2(b) of Article 2, the marriage or registered partnership has lasted at least three years, including one year in the host Member State; or

(b) by agreement between the spouses or the partners referred to in point 2(b) of Article 2 or by court order, the spouse or partner who is not a national of a Member State has custody of the Union citizen's children; or

(c) this is warranted by particularly difficult circumstances, such as having been a victim of domestic violence while the marriage or registered partnership was subsisting; or

(d) by agreement between the spouses or partners referred to in point 2

(b) of Article 2 or by court order, the spouse or partner who is not a national of a Member State has the right of access to a minor child, provided that the court has ruled that such access must be in the host Member State, and for as long as is required.

Before acquiring the right of permanent residence, the right of residence of the persons concerned shall remain subject to the requirement that they are able to show that they are workers or self-employed persons or that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State, or that they are members of the family, already constituted in the host Member State, of a person satisfying these requirements. "Sufficient resources" shall be as defined in Article 8(4). Such family members shall retain their right of residence exclusively on personal basis.

The Romanian Ordinance, Article 21 (retention of right for non EU family members) makes a general specification stipulating that the family members above mentioned enjoy the retention of the right of residence in case of death/departure or divorce/annulament of marriage, and particularly specifies the spouse and partner as family members who enjoy this right.

Moreover - Government Emergency Ordinance No. 87/2007 for the amendment of the Law No. 21/1991 regarding Romanian citizenship published in the Official Gazette of Romania, Part I, no. 634 from 14.09.2007. With later modifications and completions by Law no. 554 of 02/12/2004, published in the Official Gazette, Part I, no. 07/12/2004.

In accordance with the stipulations of Article 4 of the Law no. 21/1991 and its later modifications and completions, Romanian citizenship is acquired though:
(c) awarding upon request (your particular case)

If you do fulfill the requirements provided by Article 4 of the Law no. 21/1991 letter (a), that at the time of the submission of request for Romanian citizenship you must have been living legally in Romania for at least 8 years or, in case you are married and living with a Romanian citizen, for at least 5 years starting with the marriage date, you are entiteled for granting the Romanian citizenship!

In conclusion:

After the divorce sentence and the period you reach the fulfillment of requirements for obtaining the Romanian citizenship you have the right to stay on the Romanian territory further on as long as you can prove that you have sufficient resources (see above detailed comments) moreover even if you do not wish to obtain Romanian citizenship you may stay for an unlimited period of time in Romania as long as you fulfill the mentioned criterias.


II. In Romania, as regards the permanent residence, on the website of the Romanian Immigration Office you may find out that the residence permit in the quality of permanent resident in Romania may be of two types:

1. Permanent residence card; it is granted to family members of Romanian citizens and it is valid for 10 years period, and
2. Long-term residence permit: it is valid for 5 years period and it is granted for all other purposes for staying in Romania (studies, work, commercial activities, family reunification, etc.)

For more information in this regard you may visit the website of the Romanian Immigration Office, link: http://ori.mai.gov.ro/detalii/pagina/ro ... manenta/79

You may find the same details on page 20 of the Information Guide for third-country citizens link: http://ori.mai.gov.ro/api/media/userfil ... ormare.pdf

In your case, you mention you hold “residence permit for family members”and you are a family member of a Romanian citizen. http://ori.mai.gov.ro/detalii/pagina/ro ... identei/63

A permanent residence card may be issued to a third-country citizen in Romania, as a family members of a Romanian citizen, but, based on the Directive 2004/38/EC. But in such a case, for moving on the territory of European Union, you have to be accompanied by your Romanian spouse, and, probably, to get an entry visa.

After the marriage you’ll have to submit the necessary documents at the Romanian Office for Immigration (“Biroul Roman pentru Imigrari” http://ori.mai.gov.ro from your residence/domicile, in order to obtain the so-called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" („Permis de sedere de membru de familie pentru un cetatean al Uniunii”) according Directive 38/2004 Article 10 (1). Moreover after 5 years of legal residence in Romania you may obtain permanent residence status.

Contact point: http://ori.mai.gov.ro/formatiuni_teritoriale/index/ro


We remain at your disposal for further enquiries.


We hope this answers your query,

Sincerely,
“Your Europe Advice”

Obie
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Post by Obie » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:28 pm

The provision they quoted to you does exist, but it is applicable to other EU citizens who enter Romania with the non-Eu Spouse. It is not meant to apply to spouse of a Romanian Citizen who has never resided with the non-EU spouse in another EU memberstate.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

moroni
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Post by moroni » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:57 am

Obie wrote:The provision they quoted to you does exist, but it is applicable to other EU citizens who enter Romania with the non-Eu Spouse. It is not meant to apply to spouse of a Romanian Citizen who has never resided with the non-EU spouse in another EU memberstate.

Seems that Romania applies the Directive 2004/38/EC to its own citizens as well.

http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=50088

charles4u
Member of Standing
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Post by charles4u » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:25 pm

Long time since I posted here.

Anyways I was wondering if I can apply for a permanent residence in Romania as a family member of a Romanian citizen ... even if we don't reside in Romania.

I stayed there for 2 years only ... we do visit sometimes though.
Charles4u

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