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UKBA To Charge For EEA Applications

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

vinny
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Post by vinny » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:10 am

wiggsy wrote:http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... s-2013.pdf
European Residence Document-– (Residence Certificate) 3 n/a £55

European Residence Document – (Document certifying permanent residence) 3 n/a £55

European Residence Document – (Residence Card and Derivative Residence Card) 3 n/a £55

European Residence Document – (Permanent Residence Card) 3 n/a £55

1 .....
2 .....
3 Residence Documents issued under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations are not mandatory. These fees will be introduced later in 2013 when the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 have been amended. Full information will be provided on the UKBA website.
does this mean that air lines will have to accept a persons marriage cert ETC as proof of entitlement to enter the uk?

or Derivative Residence... my wifes passport, and our childs birth certificate will facilitate entry clearance to the uk?


ALSO:

don't these charges breach the following legislation:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... on/17/made
Reg 17(7) - EEA RC
Reg 18(4) - PR RC
John wrote:Firstly, I have adjusted the title of this topic, removing the reference to 6th April, as clearly these particular fees, if introduced, will not be introduced from that date.

Secondly, you mention regulations but UKBA acknowledges those regulations will need to be changed before the fees can be introduced. And that will take time.

Thirdly, are the fees legal in terms of the EU Directive? Very debatable, and I shall not be surprised if UKBA end up backing down on this issue. But we shall just have to wait and see.
frei wrote:This post is related to this thread in the sticky, http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 4&start=60 Vinny locked a similar thread yesterday, it will be better to continue on the sticky thread.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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nidaulhaque
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Post by nidaulhaque » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:55 pm

i think its fair to charge 55 unless they speed up the process

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:27 pm

nidaulhaque wrote:i think its fair to charge 55 unless they speed up the process
I don't quite understand what you mean. I think what you might have meant is that it would be fair if they speed up the process. I don't think it will have a positive effect on time.

The question is how would the charge comply with what is written in the directive?

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Post by wiggsy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:47 am

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
nidaulhaque wrote:i think its fair to charge 55 unless they speed up the process
I don't quite understand what you mean. I think what you might have meant is that it would be fair if they speed up the process. I don't think it will have a positive effect on time.

The question is how would the charge comply with what is written in the directive?
im not all that fussed about that, but since a registration of Derivative Residence is not mandatory as per the document listed... how come so many "overstayers" who have an ~"automatic Derivative residence" and therefore the right to reside / work etc get hunted down by UKBA?

their own documents state registration is not mandatory.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:17 am

wiggsy wrote: im not all that fussed about that, but since a registration of Derivative Residence is not mandatory as per the document listed... how come so many "overstayers" who have an ~"automatic Derivative residence" and therefore the right to reside / work etc get hunted down by UKBA?

their own documents state registration is not mandatory.
The only people who do not need documentation are EU nationals, it is easy for them to establish their rights with thier passport / ID cards. Non-EU family members will have a much tougher time. If they chose to sit in the house all day, they won't need documentation, but if they want to do the things others need to do, travel, work, open back accounts, etc...

Obie
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Post by Obie » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:42 pm

I am in no doubt, that the new charge will not stand up to judicial scrutiny.


Just like we expressed doubts on the legality of the premium application, and UKBA decided to shelve it, the same will be the same for the new charges.
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wiggsy
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Post by wiggsy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:59 am

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
wiggsy wrote: im not all that fussed about that, but since a registration of Derivative Residence is not mandatory as per the document listed... how come so many "overstayers" who have an ~"automatic Derivative residence" and therefore the right to reside / work etc get hunted down by UKBA?

their own documents state registration is not mandatory.
The only people who do not need documentation are EU nationals, it is easy for them to establish their rights with thier passport / ID cards. Non-EU family members will have a much tougher time. If they chose to sit in the house all day, they won't need documentation, but if they want to do the things others need to do, travel, work, open back accounts, etc...
but thats what im saying..

since UKBA state registration is not mandatory...
will they be altering guidance to make it clear about the rights of non EEA nationals with EEA family members ETC... so the non eea nationals do not need to register for an easier life...

IE: non eea national wife of an EEA national working in england... applies for a job

ID ETC provided to employer:
EEA national husband passport/ id card ETC
Marriage cert
letter from EEA national employer stating they are working etc.
- this is sufficient evidence for the employer of the non EEA national family member to avoid a 10 grand fine for employing an illegal worker etc... wouldnt you say? - are ukba proposing to make this clear to employers?

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:06 pm

wiggsy wrote: but thats what im saying..

since UKBA state registration is not mandatory...
will they be altering guidance to make it clear about the rights of non EEA nationals with EEA family members ETC... so the non eea nationals do not need to register for an easier life...

IE: non eea national wife of an EEA national working in england... applies for a job

ID ETC provided to employer:
EEA national husband passport/ id card ETC
Marriage cert
letter from EEA national employer stating they are working etc.
- this is sufficient evidence for the employer of the non EEA national family member to avoid a 10 grand fine for employing an illegal worker etc... wouldnt you say? - are ukba proposing to make this clear to employers?
Why would they alter the guidance?

In their view, nothing has changed. The rules for employment are the same and it is still not mandatory to apply for RC as it always been.

The only thing that changed is that they would like to charge money for the application (probably to save costs).

wiggsy
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Post by wiggsy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:20 pm

Jambo wrote:
wiggsy wrote: but thats what im saying..

since UKBA state registration is not mandatory...
will they be altering guidance to make it clear about the rights of non EEA nationals with EEA family members ETC... so the non eea nationals do not need to register for an easier life...

IE: non eea national wife of an EEA national working in england... applies for a job

ID ETC provided to employer:
EEA national husband passport/ id card ETC
Marriage cert
letter from EEA national employer stating they are working etc.
- this is sufficient evidence for the employer of the non EEA national family member to avoid a 10 grand fine for employing an illegal worker etc... wouldnt you say? - are ukba proposing to make this clear to employers?
Why would they alter the guidance?

In their view, nothing has changed. The rules for employment are the same and it is still not mandatory to apply for RC as it always been.

The only thing that changed is that they would like to charge money for the application (probably to save costs).
#

so catch 22... apply and pay the fee.. or sit at home, unable to work etc...

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Post by fysicus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:50 pm

wiggsy wrote:... how come so many "overstayers" who have an ~"automatic Derivative residence" and therefore the right to reside / work etc get hunted down by UKBA?

their own documents state registration is not mandatory.
A common scenario is someone who enters UK legally on some type of visa (not under EEA regulations) and during his stay marries an EU national. Of course, he then has an automatic right of residence, but as long as he does not apply for a Residence Card, how is UKBA supposed to know about that? After his original visa expires, he will be listed in UKBA records as overstayer and thus be hunted down.

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Post by Babz » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:45 pm

New visa application fees to come into effect on Saturday 6 April 2013 and EEA application Fees (i.e £55) To Be Introduced Later in the Year. according to UKBA "Residence Documents issued under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations are not mandatory. These fees will be introduced later in 2013 when the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 have been amended. Full information will be provided on the UKBA website." See link below.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... s-2013.pdf

wiggsy
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Post by wiggsy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:28 pm

chapter 5.5 of the eu guidlines:
However, the British citizen is not issued with a Registration Certificate as a
Registration Certificate can only be issued to EEA nationals who are exercising
Treaty rights in Member states other than their own.

therefore cost WILL NOT stand up to courts...?

vinny
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Re: UKBA refuses to say how £55 RC fee was set

Post by vinny » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:45 am

UKBA refuses to say how £55 RC fee was set
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/unit_costs_and_fees_for_european#incoming-382602

They claim there is a public interest in withholding the information.
acme4242 wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/unit_costs_and_fees_for_european#incoming-382602

They claim there is a public interest in withholding the information.
Discredits the whole FOI system. Unacceptable avoidance of a simple question.
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Post by vinny » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:51 am

Customer Service Improvement Directorate wrote:The release of source documents showing how the fee was set could compromise the future provision of h i g h quality, free and frank advice to the minister.
Advising on setting illegal charges may indeed embarrass the advisers and compromise the minister.
Customer Service Improvement Directorate wrote:There is a clear public interest in non-disclosure here. A further public interest consideration is that ministers need to be able to consider and discuss all options, and to expose their merits and demerits, and their possible implications.
An implication of illegal charges is that they may be challenged and overturned by the courts.
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Post by John » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:22 am

I shall be amazed if the new charges are not challenged. Reading :-
The fee level has been set at £55 following advice from the European Commission and after balancing consideration of the following factors: charges for similar documents issued to British nationals (for example, the UK Passport which costs £72.50, and the British Nationality Status Letter which costs £88); charges for other documents, which whilst not similar in the rights which they evidence, have a comparable practical effect (for example the UK drivers licence which costs £50); and the estimated cost to the UK Border Agency of issuing the European documentation (£82 per unit).
-: it will be seen that in order to justify the charge they are comparing the Residence Card etc with a British Passport or even a driving licence. Are those comparable documents? Hmmm!

Just a matter of time before the Courts throw out these £55 charges. I think ... pay .... receive document ..... claim fee back, and if UKBA do not agree, start Court Proceedings for recovery.
John

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:53 am

I suspect this idea/announcement will never really happen in the same way the "£300 in-person fee" has disappeared (although it seems they tried to do better homework before this time).

If you read between the lines, this all comes from the fear of influx of Romanians/Bulgarians in 2014 and the HO wanting to control that somehow (although I fail to understand how it will).

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Post by Obie » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:51 pm

This comparision of British passport fee to fees for Residence Card is outrageous and nothing short of a scandal, for a goverment to justify an illegal proposed fee in this manner is beyond believe.

One cannot impose a compulsory residence permit for A2 national, which is not a requirement for British Citizens, with demand that they get it and pay a fee to obtain it.

British Citizens are not required to have ID cards. How could a compulsory permit bode with EU citizen.

British Citizens dont necessarily need to have a passport to exercise their rights, but a family member will most cases need it, to obain jobs and other public services.
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EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:01 pm

I understand that the directive can make applying for residence cards / certificates compulsory. The carrying of them would could only be made so if the UK mandated its citizens to carry ID.

The issue is what document could be considered to be comparable.

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Post by Obie » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:27 pm

A memberstate may require it. I am not disputing that. But the directive does not make it a mandatory requirement. It is open to the discretion of the memberstates.

The UK don't have a compulsory registration system, but they are seeking to impose it on A2 national, in clear breach of community law's provision on discrimination on grounds of nationality.

Furthermore, the UK is in clear breach of Article 25, which provide that possession of these document cannot be a prerequisite for exercising rights, or proving it, as rights can be attested by ay means.

Sub paragraph 2 also provides that fees can be charged, provided these fees are charged to national of the host state for comparable documents.

Belgium and Dutch, have a system where national of that state has to hold ID cards. There is a fee payable. This is permissable.

What the UK government is seeking to do, is quite frankly illegal.

I know that provisions have not been made in the EEA regulations for these changes, but they are on the pipeline.

I believe the passport or Drivers licence, dont fall into the category of comparable documents stated in Article 25. It is unfortunate that the UK government are seeking to extend that provision, against the wishes of the draftman and legislator.
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:40 pm

Does anyone know how many RCs (for non-EU family members), registration certificates, and PR cards were issued in the most recent year?


UKBA wrote:
While it would not be in the public interest to provide redacted source documents, we have produced additional information on how the £82 unit cost is calculated as follows:
Direct Costs: £4,7m
Attributable Overheads: £4,6m
Planning volume assumption: 113,5k
Unit Cost: £82

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Post by miryferny » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:38 am

so is it a sure thing??? I was going to apply my eea2 this weekend..should i pay 55 pounds or not ??
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

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Post by John » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:43 am

miryferny, well no, because the fee has not been introduced yet. So a free application for you.
John

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Post by wiggsy » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:54 am

(off topic i know, but: on WDTK = robert... is that you Directive or somebody else?)

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Post by yoshi_jp » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:52 am

For those who are unaware of it:

The Immigration and Nationality (Cost Recovery Fees) Regulations 2013

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... ule/3/made

7.6.1
Application made on or after 1st July 2013 for a document certifying permanent residence, a derivative residence card, a permanent residence card, a registration certificate, or a residence card under the 2006 Regulations.
£55

7.6.2
Application made on or after 1st July 2013 for a family member residence stamp within the meaning of paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 to the 2006 Regulations.
£55

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Post by miryferny » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:41 pm

John wrote:miryferny, well no, because the fee has not been introduced yet. So a free application for you.
Thanks John :) I just posted my applications with passpots today...Now the waiting game begins.. :))

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