Updates on Zambrano applications

mikilo2008 wrote:

mam2 wrote:In their guidelines, they stated that unwillingness to take care of the child will not be considered. So the father writing that letter will mean you have contact with him and therfore the child too. My thoughts. If its for the appeal, then I think its ok. But for fresh application, he should be out of the scene.[/quote

Exactly that's the mistake my solicitor did he included the photocopy of my daughters dad passport. You have to insist u dnt know were her dad is. My lawyer mentioned gettn something from the court can't remember what he called it. It gives u full ownership of the child. Never mention that u even know his we're about that was one of the reasons for my refusal. Wat did ur solicitor say. I advise go for the oral appeal. If u reapply they will still give u the same story. We have to fight for our right. All the best

@Kiss300, sorry for the refusal, it seems apparent that Zambrano applicants would have to resort to appeal to get DRC. The Home Office has kept our applications over time and studied them to come up with the most common circumstance and based that for their refusals ( the presence of the British parent) To them only British kids who have lost their British parent, who have severely disable British parents, imprisoned British parents and those British parents that do no live in the UK should get DRC.

@mikilo2008, your solicitor made a mistake to volunteer the father's passport copy. Haven said that i am wondering if your solicitor might be right to get some kind of document from the court to terminate the legal rights of the absentee father(in my case) to show the father does not feel obligated to the child. I would have to consider that option because my ex is in the way of my moving forward for me and my kids. I lost my dad in Jan. 2011 and decided to leave the UK but unbelievably i could not get Nigerian passport for my child, travel certificate, not even a Nigerian visa without consent from his dad, it's been sad

The thing is we can't just go to court and get a court order. I believe there must be reasons to do so. Will they consider this silly immigration requirement as a reason?
The whole idea of refusal cos the other British parent can look after the children is awkward.

mam2 wrote:The thing is we can't just go to court and get a court order. I believe there must be reasons to do so. Will they consider this silly immigration requirement as a reason?
The whole idea of refusal cos the other British parent can look after the children is awkward.

I posted this a couple of hours ago... but you say you cant go to court?...
perhaps this might "aid"? http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed907

you have the immigration sorted, considering zambrano carers are not subject to immigration control. (despite what the ukba believe)

kiss300 wrote:i would advice anyone applying or still waiting if it is not too late to allow friends and family who have stay or visas in the country and where they say to write a letter as evidence that they are the sole carers of the British child. i was refused because i couldnt prove enough that i am the sole carer. so when i went to see my MP he told me to get letters from frds and family to state that i am the sole carer of the child. which i am doing now before i send my appeal. that way i filled where i failed. i hope this help

.
Am so sorry for ur refusal, and I kinda of agree with ur mp, but I will advice u to only ask a friend or a family friend to write a letter about being d sole carer of ur child rather than a family member cos UkBA says if there is a family member in d uk it will fall out of scope. My friends and family friends who has status in d uk wrote a letter for me too, and my lawyer strictly advice I shouldn't use a family member cos it will fall out of scope. Still praying for good news though....

djman wrote:I shouldn't use a family member cos it will fall out of scope. Still praying for good news though....

only immediately applys to the parents... Aunts and Uncles have to agree to accept responsibility... - although i do agree, its prob not a wise choice to supply "possible alternatives"

Friends,the point ukba is making is not about you not being the sole carer cos you have proved that already.They want reasons why the father can't look after the children. If friends can write letters to say why the father is not in the position to look after them, then I think it will be ok.[/list]

mam2 wrote:Friends,the point ukba is making is not about you not being the sole carer COA you have proved that already.They want reasons why the father can't look after the children. If friends can write letters to say why the father is not in the position to look after them, then I think it will be ok.[/list]

You are right... the question with UKBA is not that they are not convinced about the applicant being the primary or sole carer. The issue or question for them is about the OTHER PARENT of the child who they feel should take care of the child if the applicant is removed. That is why the main flaw of the Zambrano guidelines is the clause about the other settled parent of the child. How can one prove an absentee father? Hope they will buy into the testimonies from friends.

djman wrote:

kiss300 wrote:i would advice anyone applying or still waiting if it is not too late to allow friends and family who have stay or visas in the country and where they say to write a letter as evidence that they are the sole carers of the British child. i was refused because i couldnt prove enough that i am the sole carer. so when i went to see my MP he told me to get letters from frds and family to state that i am the sole carer of the child. which i am doing now before i send my appeal. that way i filled where i failed. i hope this help

.
Am so sorry for ur refusal, and I kinda of agree with ur mp, but I will advice u to only ask a friend or a family friend to write a letter about being d sole carer of ur child rather than a family member cos UkBA says if there is a family member in d uk it will fall out of scope. My friends and family friends who has status in d uk wrote a letter for me too, and my lawyer strictly advice I shouldn't use a family member cos it will fall out of scope. Still praying for good news though....

HI I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS SITE FOR A VERY LONG I JUST DECIDED TO COMMENT TODAY . I AM GHANAIAN, I CAME UK WHEN I AM 10 YEARS. I AM NOW 25 SOON WITH A BRITISH WHO IS ALSO 3 YEARS. MY IMMIGRATION STATUS HAVE BEEN UPS AND DOWNS. 1ST REFUSAL WAS TO WEEKS AFTER MY 18TH BITHDAY, THEY WAITED TILL MY 18TH BECAUSE THEN I WOULDN'T BE UNDER THE 7 YEARS RULE AS A CHILD. ANYWAY I RECENTLY I APPLIED UNDER THE ZAMBRANO LAW IN 2011. AFTER TOOKING TO 2 YEARS AND ME GIVING THEM PRESSURE. I RECEIVED A REFUSAL DECISION FROM THEM YESTERDAY. GIVING ME THE MOST DUMB RESON EVER.

1. THE REFUSE BECAUSE THE CALL MY SON'S NURSERY ON FRIDAY AT 10:30AM AND NO ONE ANSWER THE PHONE. SO THE CLAIM THE NURSERY IS NOT REAL OR MY SON IS NOT LIVING WITH ME IN THE COUTRY.

2. I DIDN'T EXPLAIN HOW MY SON WAS ABLE TO GET A BRITISH PASSPORT.

3. ONE OF MY SON'S BANK ACCOUNT SHOWS THAT HIS FATHER AND ME ARE THE TRUSTEE OF THE ACCOUNT.

4. MY SON'S FATHER'S NAME IS ON MY SON'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE SO THAT MEANS THAT HIS FATHER IS THE COUNTRY SO I CAN FIND HIM TO TAKE OFF MY SON IF I WAS TO GET SEND TO GHANA.

5. THEIR FURTHER ENQUIRIES HAVE REVELED THAT "ME" I HAVE INDEFINITE LEAVE TO ENTER. SO I AM AN EXEMPT PERSON UNDER THE ZAMBRANO LAWS.

I FIND THIS TO BE VERY FUNNY BECAUSE IF I HAVE INDEFINITE LEAVE TO ENTER, WHEN DID THE HOME OFFICE ISSUES THIS INDEFINITE AND IN WHICH PASSPORT DID THEY DO THIS. OR WHY ON THE HELL THIS THE SEND ME C'O'A WITH RIGHT TO WORK IF I HAVE INDEFINITE.
ANYWAY I HAVE DECIDED TO GO AND GET A LAWYER TO MAKE THE APPEAL FOR AND ALSO IF OUT WHEN HOME OFFICE GET ME INDEFINITE, AND I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL THOSE WHO ARE WAITING.
ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT IF YOUR CHILD FATHER IS NOT DEAD OR IN PRISON THEN HOME OFFICE WILL BE ASKING YOU TO GO AND LOOK FOR THEM.

Assuming they are dead or in prison, how do we know? They have the power to find out. No refusal has stated 'we found your child's dad based on our enquiries so he can take care of the child',therefore you can leave the country without your child being affected'
How bizarre.

Hi, my friend has been refused zambrano. They stated that she needs to provide documentary evidence that the child's father is not in the uk. Like his travel document out of uk, his business or work details in africa, his hotel accomadtion etc. That she can either send a new appication wit these documents, or appeal or apply for article 8. She can spoken to the child's dad and he is willingly to provide those documents. But she is wondering if e should send it to her by post or directly to ukba from africa stating that since he is not physically present in the Uk hence can not assume responsibility for the child and the child needs to enjoy her rights to british education as a citizen.

maame16 wrote: 5. THEIR FURTHER ENQUIRIES HAVE REVELED THAT "ME" I HAVE INDEFINITE LEAVE TO ENTER. SO I AM AN EXEMPT PERSON UNDER THE ZAMBRANO LAWS.

I FIND THIS TO BE VERY FUNNY BECAUSE IF I HAVE INDEFINITE LEAVE TO ENTER, WHEN DID THE HOME OFFICE ISSUES THIS INDEFINITE AND IN WHICH PASSPORT DID THEY DO THIS. OR WHY ON THE HELL THIS THE SEND ME C'O'A WITH RIGHT TO WORK IF I HAVE INDEFINITE.
ANYWAY I HAVE DECIDED TO GO AND GET A LAWYER TO MAKE THE APPEAL FOR AND ALSO IF OUT WHEN HOME OFFICE GET ME INDEFINITE, AND I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

you do realise that ILE is just the same as ILR? - if i were you i would get your passport issued, get a stamp stuck in it (even if you have to pay £100 or whatever... then later on sort out naturalisation...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite_leave_to_remain

I tink ukba has decided to make zambrano rights very difficult to achieve in d uk to discourage applicants and encourage article 8 applications. This is because they want people to b under their own immigration rules rather than european law. Its so so sad the silly reasons they are refusing people for.

easy77 wrote:I tink ukba has decided to make zambrano rights very difficult to achieve in d uk to discourage applicants and encourage article 8 applications. This is because they want people to b under their own immigration rules rather than european law. Its so so sad the silly reasons they are refusing people for.

well thats the thing... persons under zambrano are not subject to immigration control...
and...
The rules says:
-------------
Definition of continuous lawful residence

Lawful residence is defined in paragraph 276A of the Immigration
Rules as a period of continuous residence in which the applicant
had one of the following:
(i) existing leave to enter or remain; or
(ii) temporary admission within section 11 of the 1971 Act where
leave to enter or remain is subsequently granted; or
(iii) an exemption from immigration control, including where an
exemption ceases to apply if it is immediately followed by a grant
of leave to enter or
remain.
---------------
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... tionrules/

5. THEIR FURTHER ENQUIRIES HAVE REVELED THAT "ME" I HAVE INDEFINITE LEAVE TO ENTER. SO I AM AN EXEMPT PERSON UNDER THE ZAMBRANO LAWS.

I think it's better you first find out what information the home office holds about.

easy77 wrote:Hi, my friend has been refused zambrano. They stated that she needs to provide documentary evidence that the child's father is not in the uk. Like his travel document out of uk, his business or work details in africa, his hotel accomadtion etc. That she can either send a new appication wit these documents, or appeal or apply for article 8. She can spoken to the child's dad and he is willingly to provide those documents. But she is wondering if e should send it to her by post or directly to ukba from africa stating that since he is not physically present in the Uk hence can not assume responsibility for the child and the child needs to enjoy her rights to british education as a citizen.

Your friend has to be very careful.I believe H.O is playing a game here. If your friend gives them these info it goes to show she's in contact with the dad. I believe UKBA is cunningly leaving the decision at the mercy of the judges

Babz wrote:

5. THEIR FURTHER ENQUIRIES HAVE REVELED THAT "ME" I HAVE INDEFINITE LEAVE TO ENTER. SO I AM AN EXEMPT PERSON UNDER THE ZAMBRANO LAWS.

I think it's better you first find out what information the home office holds about.

Its like I said to Mikilo... you only qualify if you have no other leave under the rules etc...

if she has ILE... she needs to get the ISD from UKBA (even if she has to pay for it!!!)

ILE is the same as ILR... you cannot "upgrade" to ILR from ILE... ILE can be upgraded to BC...

That's how they are meeting their target for clearing backlogs. Just give refusals and let the judges do the job of going through all the laws and stuff.

My friend has always told them she's in contact with the father, e even pays for child support, bank statement to prove this as prior to d regulation ammendment. But they are no longer in a relationship, he is not physically present in d Uk, the child is british with medical condition which H0 acknowledges, hence needs access to d best medical care and education. Its her right to have this just like every other BC child, HO can not deprive her of dat and both parents decided she remains here, the only passport she has is BC. The only parent she has in d uk is her mother , so ukba is just trying their luck. The mum perfectly fits a zambrano, except they want to take d child into care & deport d mother.

Why is no one considering getting any of the human rights charities and the media involved in this zambrano cases. If it is made public, then ukba will be forced to issue and change so many policies. They need to be disgraced publicly, the matter should be in newspapers and on the TV, let various stakeholders discuss it. I believe it will do the magic. They are already been seen as incompetent at dealing with immigration, zambrano cases will further verify this.

Babz wrote:

easy77 wrote:Hi, my friend has been refused zambrano. They stated that she needs to provide documentary evidence that the child's father is not in the uk. Like his travel document out of uk, his business or work details in africa, his hotel accomadtion etc. That she can either send a new appication wit these documents, or appeal or apply for article 8. She can spoken to the child's dad and he is willingly to provide those documents. But she is wondering if e should send it to her by post or directly to ukba from africa stating that since he is not physically present in the Uk hence can not assume responsibility for the child and the child needs to enjoy her rights to british education as a citizen.

Your friend has to be very careful.I believe H.O is playing a game here. If your friend gives them these info it goes to show she's in contact with the dad. I believe UKBA is cunningly leaving the decision at the mercy of the judges

If the father is not physically present in the UK, then she qualifies for Zambrano even if she is in contact with the father. The issue is the dad is not able to give the child day to day care if the non EU parent should be removed, it would them go to show that the child would be forced to leave the country with the mother. If she has proof of the father being outside the UK, i believe she should appeal or reapply supplying documents they need. I do agree with you though that UKBA are relying on the courts to deal with the many complex nature of Zambrano( though they are the ones making this whole thing complex and too restricting)

GLH2012 wrote: If the father is not physically present in the UK, then she qualifies for Zambrano even if she is in contact with the father.

note that the other parent must be out of the EEA... otherwise the BC would not be forced to leave the EEA... its not just the UK.

- secondly
@Easy...
the media dont give a ...t. they play to the stereo typical hype that immigrants are all bad and gonna blow up london.

its really not worth trying... they only care if the immigrant has done something bad to add to their war on immigration.

please Wiggsy , foward me the guide given to the caseworkers under zambrano application.
what I don't understand is, do we have to provide evidences that we r the sole carers or we have to explain how the British national cannot take care of his minor.

sarahassy wrote:please Wiggsy , foward me the guide given to the caseworkers under zambrano application.
what I don't understand is, do we have to provide evidences that we r the sole carers or we have to explain how the British national cannot take care of his minor.

When I get home ill find the links etc

sarahassy wrote:please Wiggsy , foward me the guide given to the caseworkers under zambrano application.
what I don't understand is, do we have to provide evidences that we r the sole carers or we have to explain how the British national cannot take care of his minor.

My emails to UKBA have included UN rights of a child, EU law - rights of a child, and The best interests of a child - making reference to the fact that a child does better which both parents present (which EVERY governmental report states single parent families are "worse off" etc)

I think its important if the other parent is in the uk, that this is not taken into account... as obviously, it shouldnt matter, a child is dependant upon two parents! I;m sure the ECJ would agree if it gets there too!

Anyway, for the info for Euro dept...
Certificate of Application (at time of writing im awaiting more info, as my other request was cancelled with the reason that the information will be supplied in my Internal review for this one:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-367014 - response of 6th march


Info for entry / EEA FP for Zambrano... (hoping for more info to be added)
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-384433



Derivative right of residence. - their response on 9th april...
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-376967
(again, at time of writing, im awaiting an internal review, and await yet more guidance to be issued - which is refered to in the documents)



Also note: Zambrano plays a major part in the immigration rules... and with a british child its "ALMOST guarenteed" acceptance now... (*note: nothing is 100% certain)

http://www.ein.org.uk/blog/how-zambrano ... egulations

It is clear that this aspect of the Zambrano judgment has informed the drafting of exception EX.1 in the immigration rules, albeit within the deeply flawed framework of UKBA's attempt to predetermine and codify the circumstances under which Article 8 will be breached. That is made clear in the Immigration Directorate Instruction Chapter 8 'Guidance on application of EX1 – consideration of a child's best interests under Appendix FM (family rules)' where Zambrano is specifically referenced (paragraph 7) to inform the guidance that:

"11. In cases where the decision being taken in respect of the person with parental responsibility would require that person to return to a country outside of the EU then the case must always be assessed on the basis that it would be unreasonable for the child to leave the UK with their parent. In such cases it will usually be the case that the person with parental responsibility will be allowed to stay in the UK with the child provided that there is satisfactory evidence of a genuine and subsisting relationship."

For the immigration rules: (* FLR(o) Human Rights application...)
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
I've put this FOI request for the guidance which is referenced in 3.2.7b
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-384187
(whether it'll be sucessful i dont know)



------


http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/11 ... fectively/

Might be worth making a complaint to the European Commission in relation to people who have received a refusal from UKBA for Zambrano based on the british parent being present...

Ensure you make note that the rights of a child enshrined in EU law gives the child the right to a relationship with both parents

http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/your_rights/ ... rms_en.htm

after all...
As the ECJ said in Hagen v Einfuhr-und Vorratsstelle Getreide (Case 49/71) [1973] 12 CMLR 23, at para [6]:

"Terms used in Community law must be uniformly interpreted and implemented throughout the Community, except when an express or implied reference is made to national law."

just been linked to this too:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 024432.pdf

2. Given the EU directive obliging the UK government to issue a residence card to family members of EU nationals within 6 months can you please clarify the immigration status of those applicants whose residence cards have not been issued after the 6 months period?

Issuing residence documentation under the EEA Regulations does not affect an individual’s Immigration status. We are solely confirming the right to reside which the applicant has under the EEA Regulations regardless of whether UK Border Agency issues documentation confirming that right.