Access refused

I am writing on behalf of my husband. He came to the uk on 19th jan 1998, on a student visa, from Uganda. Whilst he was over here, his father passed away and as a result he was unable to continue funding his studies. The home office sent him papers to renew his visa when it expired, but he was unable to do this as he could no longer pay for his studies or fund himself. He did not reply to the home office, and as a result they held his passport. During this time he became a overstayer, even though the home office were aware he was here cos they had his passport. He worked for a while in someone else's name. This is when I met him, at the end of 2002. Then in 2003 we rented a flat together, and he worked in his own name through a temporary N.I number he had. We married in july 2004, and I gave birth to our first child in June 2005. After our marriage, and during the time of my pregnancy we contacted the home office for permission to leave to stay as a spouse. We sought leagal aid throught the citizens advice. The home office wrote to us periodically with papers and forms to sign and return. They also requested our marriage certficate and our daughters birth certficate etc.
Time passed and with no recourse to public funds and poor wages our finances took some hard blows. I am now as a result in debt managment. About a month ago in desparation to get our lives on track, we went to see our local mp. He wrote to the home office and within a month we had a reply. It arrived on sat 5th may this year. My husband has been refused the right to stay as a spouse. He has seven days to appeal (not inc weekends). In the many documents we received, it states that my husbands leave to remain in the uk as a spouse has been refused due to the fact when we wed he was already a overstayer. which would mean at the time of our marriage we would both have been aware that we were entering into a marriage that at any time could end with his removal. Which would mean that section eight of the European Human rights act, which prevents goverment or authority figures interfering with a individuals right to private and home life, is not applicable to my husband. Due to the fact he was a overstayer when we wed, his removal would not be a breach of section eight of the act. They have also said that our daughter ,as she will be only two in June, will easily adjust to life in Uganda with her parents, so she is not sufficient enough to prevent his removal. Tomorrow we are going to see a laegal aid solicitor to seek help with a appeal. But right now, we would be so glad of some help or advice and some hope to this desparate situation.

Donna,
Whilst I feeling very sorry for your current position, you must understand that many people have enter the UK legally and have had to make big personal and financial sacrifices to remain legal.

Your husband has fluanted the law in tree instances that you are admiting.

A not complet the form the HO had sent,
B working under a false name
C you marrying a man with illegal.

I see no reason why the HO should not remove husband back to Uganda and if you wish to join him, they are right by saying you will adjust to Uganda again.

Siggi is right, maybe you should appeal on the basis of compassionate grounds.

Siggi wrote:Donna,
Whilst I feeling very sorry for your current position, you must understand that many people have enter the UK legally and have had to make big personal and financial sacrifices to remain legal.

Your husband has fluanted the law in tree instances that you are admiting.

A not complet the form the HO had sent,
B working under a false name
C you marrying a man with illegal.

I see no reason why the HO should not remove husband back to Uganda and if you wish to join him, they are right by saying you will adjust to Uganda again.

Not only are your words harsh, they are totally wrong!!! I will explain why; but firstly...Dee, I am assuming you are a British Citizen (or at least an EU citizen?)? How can she "adjust to Uganda again" if she hasn't even mentioned that she or her child have ever been to Uganda???

1. (assuming) Dee is a BC, then the child is automatically a BC too...the BIA cannot expect their own citizens to leave the UK, whether by force or for family life!! So, you don't have to go anywhere....your daughter is not Ugandan she is British (citizenship wise, of course), assuming she'd adjust to another country's way if living is just plain dumb...even if she is a Ugandan citizen, neither of you should have to leave, as your husband can indeed stay in the UK, because;

2. There is absolutely no reason why an overstayer cannot apply successfully for a spouse visa, or indeed any other visa they qualify for...(unless for obvious reasons...he/she is a criminal, he/she is dangerous, he/she etc etc etc)...rules have not ever barred an overstayer/illegal person from become 'legal', unless for extreme cases as mentioned above.

However, you CANNOT 'switch' from an overstayer category to a spouse visa category...your husband needs to return to Uganda and apply from there...no 'ifs' or 'buts' about it, sadly...there are literally dozens of threads on this post with the same issue as yours...you're not the only one! So search this board and you'll come up with loads of support.

However two, Dee...I don't understand why he didn't return if his father died? Maybe he wanted to stay, not my business, but that counted against him.

You'll need to provide details of your own nationality in order to determine what you can do now (you mentioned applying for a spouse visa so I assume you are British?). It was wrong to apply in-country, because at the end of the day his leave has expired, and he does in fact have to return (though not forever). Also, has your husband ever been on benefits or public funds? That might make things harder.

Applying from abroad would be a long process, and since you're in debt mgmt that might count against you, so you should speak to CAB again. I'm no expert, but appealing might not have any affect because he is an overstayer and he can return safely to Uganda (since he didn't apply for asylum) and apply from there if he wants. Also, the compassionate grounds...it's hard to argue that because he came as a student and had the money to study here....'compassion' is generally, though not always, mostly for failed asylum applicants or someone with a disability (I mean...if the partner is taking care of the BC person or something like that), not really because you want him to be here!

Papafaith..I don't think siggi is saying they have compassionate grounds, I think he is saying they (BC mother and child, foreign husband) really should leave the UK because he's illegal? Just my reading...

Siggi wrote:Donna,
Whilst I feeling very sorry for your current position, you must understand that many people have enter the UK legally and have had to make big personal and financial sacrifices to remain legal.

Your husband has fluanted the law in tree instances that you are admiting.

A not complet the form the HO had sent,
B working under a false name
C you marrying a man with illegal.

I see no reason why the HO should not remove husband back to Uganda and if you wish to join him, they are right by saying you will adjust to Uganda again.

Too right Siggi, we've paid thousands and still no PR...

I think the OP is British though, probably never been to Uganda and it's not an ideal place live compared to UK AIUI. But love conquers all, I'd willingly go to the Siberia where my better half is from and settle, as long as I got her the -42c won't seem so bad....

However, the OP's husband has committed some pretty serious offences so I can't see anyway of regularising his leave to remain in UK from in-country. Some overstayers have done it but only where their home country is not safe, ie nowadays possibly only Iraq!

So in my opinion he has to return home, and apply for spouse visa from Uganda, if he stays here sooner of later he'll be deported making it doubly difficult to return.

Being short of cash isn't going to help, I know we can't help who we fall in love with but having a Foreign partner is expensive even if it's all legal. You need the cash full stop, the visa fees alone amount to around 2000 quid when it's all finished.

Wanderer wrote:

Siggi wrote:Donna,
Whilst I feeling very sorry for your current position, you must understand that many people have enter the UK legally and have had to make big personal and financial sacrifices to remain legal.

Your husband has fluanted the law in tree instances that you are admiting.

A not complet the form the HO had sent,
B working under a false name
C you marrying a man with illegal.

I see no reason why the HO should not remove husband back to Uganda and if you wish to join him, they are right by saying you will adjust to Uganda again.

Too right Siggi, we've paid thousands and still no PR...

I think the OP is British though, probably never been to Uganda and it's not an ideal place live compared to UK AIUI. But love conquers all, I'd willingly go to the Siberia where my better half is from and settle, as long as I got her the -42c won't seem so bad....

However, the OP's husband has committed some pretty serious offences so I can't see anyway of regularising his leave to remain in UK from in-country. Some overstayers have done it but only where their home country is not safe, ie nowadays possibly only Iraq!

So in my opinion he has to return home, and apply for spouse visa from Uganda, if he stays here sooner of later he'll be deported making it doubly difficult to return.

Being short of cash isn't going to help, I know we can't help who we fall in love with but having a Foreign partner is expensive even if it's all legal. You need the cash full stop, the visa fees alone amount to around 2000 quid when it's all finished.

Yea the BIA just wants all the rich international lovers to come to the UK! Funny people...and now they (might) want them to be rich, educated and over 21!

Hi, thanks for your input. I am a british citizen, and have never left the uk for any reason. Myu husband did not return to Uganda when his father died, I believe because he could not return as the ho had his passport. I have never actually asked him outright. He only has one brother left in Uganda who is struggling to support himself. I am worried that his only way to appeal would be to return to Uganda. But if he does this how long would it take? and would it work? And while it is correct we knew he was an overstayer when we married we were niave nuff to believe it would not be this hard. Dumb i know, but guess that was loves rose tinted specs.

sakura wrote:

Wanderer wrote:Being short of cash isn't going to help, I know we can't help who we fall in love with but having a Foreign partner is expensive even if it's all legal. You need the cash full stop, the visa fees alone amount to around 2000 quid when it's all finished.

Yea the BIA just wants all the rich international lovers to come to the UK! Funny people...and now they (might) want them to be rich, educated and over 21!

I totally agree with you and myself! Think about it, your average mail order/foriegn bride/groom is pretty useless at first to the UK economy, so make them pay for the visa and pay a lot.

On the other hand, the fees for WP and HSMP haven't risen so much, cos these people either return home after the UK Gov has taxed them, or if they stay carry on taxing them!

Either way UK gets it's pound of flesh.

Also neither myself or my husband have claimed a ounce of public funds. Nor have we wanted to, we wanted to sort out his permanant stay so we could finally move on with our lives. As we now have our little girl we want to do better for her. Even though he is a overstayer the home office have always known he was here, as they retained and held his passport for all those years when he could not renew his student visa.

Dee3000 wrote:Hi, thanks for your input. I am a british citizen, and have never left the uk for any reason. Myu husband did not return to Uganda when his father died, I believe because he could not return as the ho had his passport. I have never actually asked him outright. He only has one brother left in Uganda who is struggling to support himself. I am worried that his only way to appeal would be to return to Uganda. But if he does this how long would it take? and would it work? And while it is correct we knew he was an overstayer when we married we were niave nuff to believe it would not be this hard. Dumb i know, but guess that was loves rose tinted specs.

I don't know how long it will take because it depends on how big your mountain of documentary evidence is. Search this board (esp the 'immigration for family members' section), see the documentary evidence you need for a spouse visa...it's about 10inches thick and counting! Finances are a MAJOR part of it nowadays, which is what Wanderer and I are writing about...you need to show self-sufficiency...any chance of you moving in with parents, saving up some money, getting parents to support your application, etc? Any evidence that you'll both be able to get a good job, support your child/ren, etc? Any evidence that you can manage your life together without public funds, any evidence that you won't be too poor and drain the public purse?

All sounds very harsh, but that's what they might ask....and that's what you need to proove.

Also...has your child been registered as a British Citizen? She should be.
Since I'm not an expert, you should ask the CAB about the returning option, and maybe a legal advisor (though beware some might give incorrect info...always read on the requirements at the BIA website).

Good luck!

As previous posters have suggested your husband should return to Uganda and seek a spouse entry visa from there. There is no chance he could do it in-country.

The fact that he has overstayed in the past should not be a major factor that can deny him a visa. The main issue will be to convince the visa officer that your husband will be able to maintain himself without recourse to public funds.

Yes, but if my husband returns to Uganda, I shall not be able to maintain the household finances alone. If he is gone for many months, I may have to go bankupt, I may have to claim benefits. It has always been the case that niether one of us could maintain the houshold finances without the other. If I was forced to go bankrupt while he was gone, or claim benefits, would this effect his claim? If he was allowed to return, would the home office not expect or allow him to take up employment so as not to need recourse to public funds? Ever since my maternity leave, we have struggled with our finances, as my wages being cut in half and then stopping was more than we could recover from. Both our wages combined have only ever just covered the bills. I am very worried this may all count against my husband should he return to Uganda. We could and would and have survived without benefits but without both our incomes we can not do it. The worst thing is, that as he should not be working either, as far as the home office are concerned we have survived all this time on just my wages. Which in reality could never happen.

The only thing, both myself and my husband long for, is the right for him to remain here in the uk with his family. And my husband would not expect to get this or maintain it by any other means than working. He did not come here believing he could sit on his laurels and claim benefits, he came here believing he could further his education and career. All his siblings came over here before him and finished their studies. He was very unlucky his father passed away while he was still doing his studies. He only has one brother left in Uganda, who finished his studies in the uk and chose to return cos he wanted to stay settled in Uganda, all his other siblings have permanent stay here. We can both see now that it looks highly likely he will have to return home to appeal, but in doing so we are afraid he may never get allowed back in. Although what reason there could be for this I do not know. The only mistake my husband ever made as far as I can see, is not responding when the ho wrote when his visa expired. The thing I dont understand is how it can all be his fault. The ho knew he was still here when his student visa expired all those years ago, they knew and they ignored it. They never wrote or anything, if we had not written ourselves, we would not be in this position. We wrote in, cos my husband knew once he met me, that in order for our lives to move forward and for him to have decent employment etc, he had to be granted permanent stay. I have never considered my husband an illegal occupant of this country, I have always thought that term was for people who smuggled themselves into the country unknown to the goverment. He entered this country legally, he never hid himself, he was always in their reach had they chosen to write or find out why he did not renew his visa.

While I sympathise with your situation, Dee, I suggest you sort your finances out first.

Time passed and with no recourse to public funds and poor wages our finances took some hard blows.

You mean you consistently spent in excess of what you earned? And why do you have no recourse to public funds?

Barring very rare exceptions I don't really see how a couple - even on minimum wage - can be so destitute three years after marriage unless they have issues with managing their finances. If you're British (eligible for tax credits, maternity pay, child benefits and lots more) and claiming what you're entitled to then I don't really see what your problem is. Before you consider me heartless I'll have you know I've lived illegally, I've been illegally employed... and unemployed, I've been broke, I've been homeless and I've lived on the street... so I have some experience of hard times.

I shall not be able to maintain the household finances alone

Why not? Lots of single mothers do. Things don't look bright for you and your husband staying together here - but you can do something about it. You could get out of debt, get your finances stable, then let him go to Uganda and apply for a spouse visa. The British government can't sort your finances out for you. This forum isn't for helping sort your finances out. Only you can do that. Then you can fight to get your man to stay. Till then you're asking the British government to
1. Pardon your husband his visa violations
2. Give him ILR
3. Give him benefits from day one because he/you are not good at staying out of debt.
Don't you think that's a bit of a tall order?

The ho knew he was still here when his student visa expired all those years ago, they knew and they ignored it.

You're clutching at straws. That they haven't taken enforcement action doesn't make your husband legal.

Dee3000 wrote:Yes, but if my husband returns to Uganda, I shall not be able to maintain the household finances alone. If he is gone for many months, I may have to go bankupt, I may have to claim benefits. It has always been the case that niether one of us could maintain the houshold finances without the other. If I was forced to go bankrupt while he was gone, or claim benefits, would this effect his claim? If he was allowed to return, would the home office not expect or allow him to take up employment so as not to need recourse to public funds? Ever since my maternity leave, we have struggled with our finances, as my wages being cut in half and then stopping was more than we could recover from. Both our wages combined have only ever just covered the bills. I am very worried this may all count against my husband should he return to Uganda. We could and would and have survived without benefits but without both our incomes we can not do it. The worst thing is, that as he should not be working either, as far as the home office are concerned we have survived all this time on just my wages. Which in reality could never happen.

There's no other way tho. And if you can't afford it you'll have to find a way, there is no other apart from him hanging on in UK till 2011 hoping for the 14 year illegal stay concession. And that door might be closed by then.

If you bankrupt yourself I think you can forget a spouse visa until at least the bankruptcy is discharged.

If he returns as your spouse, he is allowed to work so you can factor that into your application, showing a budget with his expected income.

You're stuck twixt a rock and a very heard place but really the only was is for him to return, apply from Uganda for a spouse visa, armed with documentation proving ur life together, budgets showing how you will support each other without public funds, and don't forget the visa fee, which is 500 pounds, absolute daylight robbery but a reminder this business is not cheap.

Good luck

Well, first of all that is so wrong. He never has and I never have wanted him to have benefits from day one! And yes I am a uk citizen who is entitled to benefits, child tax credit etc. But I am of the understanding that I could not claim any such things with my husbands ongoing situation, for while I may be entitled to them, he is not. And by us residing at the same address he would seem to benefit from anything I claimed. I dont think we have been irresponsible with our finances at all. And the only reason it got mentioned in this discussion is cos somewhere earlier today, someone mentioned visa fee's or something that would incurr expenses. While I sympathise with the horrible situations it sounds like you have been through, I dont think that gives you the right to judge our situatation so harshly. U can never totally understand anothers problems until u have walked a mile in their shoes.

Dee3000 wrote:Well, first of all that is so wrong. He never has and I never have wanted him to have benefits from day one! And yes I am a uk citizen who is entitled to benefits, child tax credit etc. But I am of the understanding that I could not claim any such things with my husbands ongoing situation, for while I may be entitled to them, he is not. And by us residing at the same address he would seem to benefit from anything I claimed. I dont think we have been irresponsible with our finances at all. And the only reason it got mentioned in this discussion is cos somewhere earlier today, someone mentioned visa fee's or something that would incurr expenses. While I sympathise with the horrible situations it sounds like you have been through, I dont think that gives you the right to judge our situatation so harshly. U can never totally understand anothers problems until u have walked a mile in their shoes.

You can claim benefits no problem, for you and your child but not ur husband. I thinking WTC/CTC, HB and CB here. If ur on the dole I really think ur chances are nil.

I too have been there, I am an expert on benefits and claims believe me, I was left alone with five kids but I got out of that hole, and I know I could have never even started my current relationship with a foreign national, illegal or legal without being largely free of debt or at least solvent.

You'll have to do the same I'm afraid, the UK gov is no charity and getting less charitable by the day.....

Go to http://www.entitledto.org - saved my bacon when I was skint and don't forget - YOU can claim so long as your claim won't be increased by ur husbands presence.

U can never totally understand anothers problems until u have walked a mile in their shoes.

You're the one who said you were in "debt management".

He never has and I never have wanted him to have benefits from day one!

Let me put a HO hat on. Finance problem? Not going bankrupt in case it affects the visa application. Hmmm. "The moment that guy is legal here they'll go bankrupt and there's a high chance he and his family are going to be reliant on the state!"

ut I am of the understanding that I could not claim any such things ...

You couldn't be more wrong.

And by us residing at the same address he would seem to benefit from anything I claimed

The government doesn't care who benefits or what you do with the money.

visa fee's

Visa fees are but one small drop in the ocean. Your husband's flights back and forth, his living expenses there, loss of earnings and lots more are all expenses you should be prepared for. Then if you fail you need to have some money in reserve to hire solicitors and barristers to take the case to the Imm Appeals Tribunal. As sakura pointed out, you need to show you're financially OK and that doesn't seem to be the case at present. My advice is that you take care of that first.

Dee3000 wrote:Well, first of all that is so wrong. He never has and I never have wanted him to have benefits from day one! And yes I am a uk citizen who is entitled to benefits, child tax credit etc. But I am of the understanding that I could not claim any such things with my husbands ongoing situation, for while I may be entitled to them, he is not. And by us residing at the same address he would seem to benefit from anything I claimed. I dont think we have been irresponsible with our finances at all. And the only reason it got mentioned in this discussion is cos somewhere earlier today, someone mentioned visa fee's or something that would incurr expenses. While I sympathise with the horrible situations it sounds like you have been through, I dont think that gives you the right to judge our situatation so harshly. U can never totally understand anothers problems until u have walked a mile in their shoes.

I think ol7max is right, though. I do not think he was judging, simply pointing that although living in the UK is expensive, many people manage even on low wages.

The government wouldn't change his immigration issues (i.e. make it better or worse) if YOU are claiming child credits and the like...I do think it is things like JSA/housing benefit that they might have a problem with, but things for your child...if you are able to claim for it, they won't hold that against your husband. The official rule is that the non-perm. resident does not use public funds..doesn't say anything about the BC not using funds. If it would help you, you had better fill in the form...the BIA won't care!

No one says you want benefits, but did you not speak to the CAB about finances, and what you can do? They might have mentioned such benefits you and child are entitled to. Also, I did mention that if you are having financial problems you should maybe consider moving in with parents or other relatives until this is sorted out (that's what parents are for, after all!). If he has siblings here, why can't they help?

Simply put;
I personally don't see any chance of sorting this out unless he leaves the UK. If you can't manage without him working, then this is a bad option, but the alternative is that he will continue as an overstayer as the BIA will not give concessions to cases like these....then you will put yourself in debt and will never be able to apply for a spouse visa...then he'll be here until the 14 year rule clocks....which is 2012?

So try finding a relative to help you with accommodation (at least save on rent) whilst he is gone, apply for child credits as you are entitled to it, save up and apply.

it was the citizens advice that said I could not claim anything, I think this was because my husband was working illegally. While it is true I dont want to go bankrupt and affect his claim. If I did so after he was granted leave to stay, I would not want to live off the state. I only want to be able to work and have nuff to live on. The same as my husband only wants the right to work legally. I will look at all options u or anyone else is suggesting. Tomorrow we will seek legal advice once again, and go to cab. As for relatives helping, his brothers and sisters live in London and our busy supporting their own families. My mother lives with my father who she is currently caring for, as he has dementure. Space there is limited and my father is constantly in the toilet due to other health problems.

Dee, to be fair I only skimmed this section but from what I gather this is my assessment.
You guys really messed up and should have long ago dealt with your husband's overstay and have made your situation worse. You have invested all these years in the UK building a life and now you are pregnant and decide to bring it to the HO's attention? You really should have gotten representation before coming clean to the HO. But frankly I think you rattled the cage by going to the MP to get a reaction. You would have been better off staying the way you were and getting settlement in 10 or 14 years whatever the provision is for for people who are here unlawfully here but can obtain settlement.
Yes your story is moving and compelling but you have really left HO no where to maneuver in terms to being compassionate; how should they react to your situation? Your husband is not supposed to be here. And while it is really quite admirable that you and he haven't availed yourself of public funds, it is a bit foolhardy to keep yourself in this vicious circle of financial stress when you are entitled to help. Look at the situation you have brought your child into.
Frankly it might go more smoothly if your husband goes back to Uganda and you start from scratch and in a way the HO would be less hostile to your desire to live together in the UK.
Thats my two cents

Dee3000 wrote:it was the citizens advice that said I could not claim anything, I think this was because my husband was working illegally. While it is true I dont want to go bankrupt and affect his claim. If I did so after he was granted leave to stay, I would not want to live off the state. I only want to be able to work and have nuff to live on. The same as my husband only wants the right to work legally. I will look at all options u or anyone else is suggesting. Tomorrow we will seek legal advice once again, and go to cab. As for relatives helping, his brothers and sisters live in London and our busy supporting their own families. My mother lives with my father who she is currently caring for, as he has dementure. Space there is limited and my father is constantly in the toilet due to other health problems.

To be honest the CAB aren't experts on immigration. I'd look for an adviser here http://www.oisc.gov.uk/ there will mostly be a free one near where you live.

I must admit to being surprised his brothers and sisters are here and even more surprised they don't seem to be able to help......

it was the citizens advice that said I could not claim anything, I think this was because my husband was working illegally.

I'd get a second opinion (and ditch the first one).

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but I don't believe you have the 14 year option either. It used to be a concession, it became a rule, but in your husband's case it won't apply if he was ever served with deportation orders (or certain other enforcement related papers) which it appears he was. The serving of certain papers causes "the clock to stop ticking" and further time spent here doesn't count towards the 14 years.

If I did so after he was granted leave to stay, I would not want to live off the state. I only want to be able to work and have nuff to live on.

If you weren't able to do it before why would anyone believe you can do it in future? Unless he's a doctor or something and a change in his immigration status will mean a LOT more money. I'm not convinced you'll have enough to live on. But my opinion is worthless - it's the Home Office you have to convince and they're even less easily impressed than I am.

There is good news, though. There are things you can do and games you can play that will guarantee him legal residence in the UK. But to avail of them you'll have to take care of three priorities:
- Sort your finances out
- Sort your finances out
- Sort your finances out

ol7max The whole story stinks, my previous reaction is the benefit of the doubt, this one is more unsympathetic, you don't want to see my version of you're an idiot, bullshitter and must think I am a dog in heat for you to talk to.

I dont' believe CAB told them she can't have public benefits
I feel they both decided to put their heads in the sand and not deal with the situation. So you reap what you sow. I have never seen so many excuses in my life. He didn't have any money to renew, I have seen on applications the possibility to not pay if you are in financial difficulty but they weren't so bad or they would have gotten public funds. At the end of the day you have to prioritize, pay up or get out. Family is here and they wouldn't help out with the need to pay for your extension. NO way, something else more is happening that isn't being said. You didn't want to answer the HO for other reasons than financial.

Yeah well, believe what u like. I am not on here to convince u or anyone else of our story. I only wanted to talk to other people in similiar situations and maybe get advice. I wont take offence at what u said, although I could, cos its not worth it, I know I am speaking the truth. Afterall what would be the point in lying.