Help with entry to UK without VISA - EEA family member

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:05 pm

Heres hoping someone can help me:

I've read a lot of information given on the http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/ page. I gotta say it's really helped me, but i still have some dobuts.

My story is that I'm a British national, living and working in Spain with my civil partner who is dominican. We have a "pareja de hecho" which is a type of spanish civil partnership .

We applied for the family permit to visit my family for a 12 day period and we were refused and one of the reasons was that the documents we provided did not prove we were married or in a civil partnership. (we provided the certificate so god knows what else they wanted!)

After reading the family permit refusal letter it seemed to suggest we had applied to LIVE there which was clearly not the case as we even provided the date of return to the UK.

After the refusal we didn't know what else to do because we already had the flights booked (i honestly didn't think we would be refused!!!)

The flight is this friday and we figure we are going to try and travel without the permit after reading all about the freedom of movements.
I checked with the british embassy in madrid, via phone and they confirmed the pareja de hecho is recognised by the british government as an official partnership.

We will have:

My partners NIE (official spanish card for foreigners)
Our partnership certifcate (also an official translated english version)
4 months of bank statements and wage slips
My work contract
The return flights confirmation
And will also print a a copy of the pages where the law is clearly explained.

I'm fairly confident that on arriving to the UK we should be able to get through after speaking to someone who is high enough, however my problem is RYANAIR!!

As they will be worried about receiving a fine, what are the chances of point blank refusing us in Madrid?
As we don't have luggage to check in i'm not even sure we have to show our passports, maybe just once at passport control.
I'm worried ryanair will behave as they normally do and try to make everything difficult but apparently i'm in my rights to insist that they call the UKBA carrier helpline.

I'm so nervous that ryan air stop him from travelling.

What a nightmare! Can anyone offer any advice on how to deal with ryanair?

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:11 pm

your biggest problem will be boarding the plane... - it won't be easy due to the fines that can be imposed on carriers. (its cheaper for a carrier to pay you compensation, then for them to pay a fine)

UKBA Carriers Liaison Section at: UKBAIGRALONCLS@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:35 pm

Thanks for the quick response.

Do you think we should make ryanair of the situation on arriving at the airport or wait until they ask/tell us something? Because as far as I can remember, the only time they ask you for passport is at the gate?

If we go a few hours early would it be worth going to the desk before hand?

wiggsy · Post by **wiggsy** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:56 pm

adge2k13 wrote:Thanks for the quick response.

Do you think we should make ryanair of the situation on arriving at the airport or wait until they ask/tell us something? Because as far as I can remember, the only time they ask you for passport is at the gate?

If we go a few hours early would it be worth going to the desk before hand?

It's been quite a while since i've flown anywhere so... but I remember showing my passport at checkin, then again as I passed the security in Birm Intl, then again when i got on the plane... dunno about in spain...

captcha · Post by **captcha** » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:54 pm

adge2k13 wrote:Because as far as I can remember, the only time they ask you for passport is at the gate?

With Ryanair, all non EU passagers must go to the check-in desk for what they call "visa check". Otherwise they might be denied boarding at the gate.

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:11 am

yeah captcha, i just realised this now. I'm extremely nervous that ryanair are going to deny him board, although it's very frustrating because i'm practically positive that once in the UK immigration they will grant us access as we have all our documents and proof of partnership ready.

any advice on how to deal with ryanair in this case?

eldane · Post by **eldane** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:30 am

adge2k13 wrote:Heres hoping someone can help me:

I've read a lot of information given on the http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/ page. I gotta say it's really helped me, but i still have some dobuts.

My story is that I'm a British national, living and working in Spain with my civil partner who is dominican. We have a "pareja de hecho" which is a type of spanish civil partnership .

We applied for the family permit to visit my family for a 12 day period and we were refused and one of the reasons was that the documents we provided did not prove we were married or in a civil partnership. (we provided the certificate so god knows what else they wanted!)

After reading the family permit refusal letter it seemed to suggest we had applied to LIVE there which was clearly not the case as we even provided the date of return to the UK.

After the refusal we didn't know what else to do because we already had the flights booked (i honestly didn't think we would be refused!!!)

The flight is this friday and we figure we are going to try and travel without the permit after reading all about the freedom of movements.
I checked with the british embassy in madrid, via phone and they confirmed the pareja de hecho is recognised by the british government as an official partnership.

We will have:

My partners NIE (official spanish card for foreigners)
Our partnership certifcate (also an official translated english version)
4 months of bank statements and wage slips
My work contract
The return flights confirmation
And will also print a a copy of the pages where the law is clearly explained.

I'm fairly confident that on arriving to the UK we should be able to get through after speaking to someone who is high enough, however my problem is RYANAIR!!

As they will be worried about receiving a fine, what are the chances of point blank refusing us in Madrid?
As we don't have luggage to check in i'm not even sure we have to show our passports, maybe just once at passport control.
I'm worried ryanair will behave as they normally do and try to make everything difficult but apparently i'm in my rights to insist that they call the UKBA carrier helpline.

I'm so nervous that ryan air stop him from travelling.

What a nightmare! Can anyone offer any advice on how to deal with ryanair?

Hiya,

I had a similar problem with the UK Visa section in Bogotá, Colombia (however, not for an unmarried partner).
I managed to obtain an EEA family permit in 1 day after a new application was submitted.
I did as follows:

-I wrote a complaint to the visa section on the embassy via the web site stating in what way I believed my rights had been denied.

-In the same complaint I mentioned if the ECM could not comply with my claim that he forwarded my complaint to his line manager i.e. the Visa operations manager for Europe in your case.

-The operations manager got in touch with me by email the day after and we had an exchange of opinions and he suggested reappling adding X documents witht the new application.

-I explained and documented that a EEA FP was not compulsory due UKBAs own work instructions (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/278 ... ndents.pdf) pointing to section 5.5.1 and 5.5.2 and also refering the operations manager to a letter from ex immigration minister Damian Green (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/278 ... reeEEA.pdf) [which was new to the operations manager] while continuing to stress that we were of course prepared to follow UKBAs recomendation of having a EEA family permit hence applying for it again.

-I also explained we had a flight few days ahead and need them to book an appointment on my behalf and if possible issue the permit before our departure.[/list]

This resulted in an email telling they would do their best but could not promise the permit would be ready before departure.
They issued the permit in one day and we had it two days before deparure. Mind you this was in a time frame similar to that of yours.

Good luck
Eldanes

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:52 am

Thanks for the reply eldane, however I highly doubt we will get it sorted that way now.

It's already Tuesday and we fly on Friday and Thursday here is a holiday

I don't even know how i'd get through to anyone to make a complaint, it seems impossible to speak to anyone directly!

eldane · Post by **eldane** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:01 pm

adge2k13 wrote:Thanks for the reply eldane, however I highly doubt we will get it sorted that way now.

It's already Tuesday and we fly on Friday and Thursday here is a holiday

I don't even know how i'd get through to anyone to make a complaint, it seems impossible to speak to anyone directly!

Well, what have you got to lose by complaining and hoping for a swift solution? http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/count ... gname=null

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:59 pm

Thanks again, they only accept complaints in writing which they won't receive before Friday so I decided to send them an email.

I got a response automatically telling me they don't deal with personal cases

I'll try to call them again tomorrow, but they seem so determined to avoid dealing with anything to do with permits and visas. As soon as you say the word they tell you to call another number.

Oh well... looks like i just have to pray than ryanair have a rare moment of compassion and understanding

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:06 pm

Please waste no time travelling to the Airport, Rynair will 99.99% of the time refuse boarding in this circumstance, better try @ Calais in France than in Spain

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:40 am

Well I'm going to fly anyway, whether they let him come or not and we are going to lose the flights so there's really nothing to lose.

I'm prepared for a fight... how can the law be enforced if Ryanair don't let you go?

Apparently there's a Carrier helpline they need to call in those circumstances, so i won't give up until they at least agree to call..

This is a nightmare, I just hope we have some luck.

Thanks for all the comments guys, i'll let you know how we get on

geriatrix · Post by **geriatrix** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:21 pm

adge2k13 wrote:Does anyone know which airlines, if any do not do a visa check on boarding the plane?

I know for example ryanair have to give you a stamp on your boarding pass but are there any airlines that don't ask to see it?

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:06 pm

Well people i'd like to inform you that my partner and I successfully entered the UK (him being dominican without a passport)
The biggest problem we faced was ryanair, but when we got to madrid we were completely surprised when the member of staff checked our marriage certificate and papers, called his manager and after 20 minutes kindly stamped his boarding pass and wished us a pleasant flight -MIRACLE!!!

However on arriving to Manchester the immigration officers said they (ryanair) shouldn't have done that and that he still needed a visa.

The staff were extremely polite with us, but we had to wait 4 hours in immigration while they 'googled' information on our spanish civil partnership. They seemed to be quite sure that they could send him back even though I gave them copies of everything.

In the end they 'refused' his entry, based on the fact that he had been refused the family permit (even though it was unfairly refused). They stamped his passport with a refusal stamp and sent it to london where we had to collect it on leaving the country.

I suppose they have to be seen to be working collectively and if he had been refused a permit for them to go and 'let him in' would be seen as ridiculous.

HOWEVER! They DID let him in as we already had our flight booked, they said on the letter that they were officially sending him back on the flight that we had already booked...

It seems that the law needs to be changed because they really didn't have much of a clue what to do, although they were willing to look at all the papers we had brought and were even impressed by how organised and informed we were.

All in all it was such a huge relief and I truly think God was on our side that day, as I genuinely though Ryanair wouldn't let us past!

adge2k13 · Post by **adge2k13** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:07 pm

Well people i'd like to inform you that my partner and I successfully entered the UK (him being dominican without a passport)
The biggest problem we faced was ryanair, but when we got to madrid we were completely surprised when the member of staff checked our marriage certificate and papers, called his manager and after 20 minutes kindly stamped his boarding pass and wished us a pleasant flight -MIRACLE!!!

However on arriving to Manchester the immigration officers said they (ryanair) shouldn't have done that and that he still needed a visa.

The staff were extremely polite with us, but we had to wait 4 hours in immigration while they 'googled' information on our spanish civil partnership. They seemed to be quite sure that they could send him back even though I gave them copies of everything.

In the end they 'refused' his entry, based on the fact that he had been refused the family permit (even though it was unfairly refused). They stamped his passport with a refusal stamp and sent it to london where we had to collect it on leaving the country.

I suppose they have to be seen to be working collectively and if he had been refused a permit for them to go and 'let him in' would be seen as ridiculous.

HOWEVER! They DID let him in as we already had our flight booked, they said on the letter that they were officially sending him back on the flight that we had already booked...

It seems that the law needs to be changed because they really didn't have much of a clue what to do, although they were willing to look at all the papers we had brought and were even impressed by how organised and informed we were.

All in all it was such a huge relief and I truly think God was on our side that day, as I genuinely though Ryanair wouldn't let us past!

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Help with entry to UK without VISA - EEA family member

Help with entry to UK without VISA - EEA family member

Re: Help with entry to UK without VISA - EEA family member

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