Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:38 pm

I registered with HMRC as self employed in April this year. I do not have a self assessment statement of account because the tax year is not over yet so I've not yet had a chance to pay any taxes.

In Guide AN it states:

SELF-EMPLOYED APPLICANTS
If you do not pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangements, we require the most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account

That's it, nothing else. I don't have this so I can't give it to them and I don't want to have to wait till April next year to apply. I called HMRC and asked if they could post a letter to me just confirming that I've registered with them etc. I also emailed the UKBA helpdesk explaining all of this and asking if it was ok if I didn't provide a self assessment statement and just sent the letter from HMRC with my national insurance number and unique taxpayer reference.

I got this response back from them:

You may wish to provide other documentary evidence to support your application. However this will be at the caseworker discretion, if they are not satisfied they may request further evidence. This could delay your application.

Please note that as the onus is upon the individual to ensure that he/she satisfies the requirements set out in the guidance material that accompanies each and every application form, the Nationality Group is not able to give, indicate or advise upon the outcome of any such application prior to it being correctly submitted and being given full and careful consideration. Therefore, you are advised to read through the guide prior to submitting a future application.

That doesn't really answer my question so I was wondering if anyone on here might have some advice. What kind of evidence should I send with my application? I'm contractually employed by a single company so should I get them to write a letter stating my salary etc? Should I submit P60's from past jobs?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

aladyce · Post by **aladyce** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:59 pm

I think you should submit your past P60s as evidence of having paid tax. Although P60 is issued by your former employers to you, it is the only proof you have that you have been paying tax, as you HMRC SA form is not due/ready yet.
In any case, I am not totally convinced that your tax payment is a key issue for their consideration of your application.

UKnow · Post by **UKnow** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:03 pm

pereguinn wrote:I registered with HMRC as self employed in April this year. I do not have a self assessment statement of account because the tax year is not over yet so I've not yet had a chance to pay any taxes.

In Guide AN it states:

SELF-EMPLOYED APPLICANTS
If you do not pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangements, we require the most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account
That's it, nothing else. I don't have this so I can't give it to them and I don't want to have to wait till April next year to apply. I called HMRC and asked if they could post a letter to me just confirming that I've registered with them etc. I also emailed the UKBA helpdesk explaining all of this and asking if it was ok if I didn't provide a self assessment statement and just sent the letter from HMRC with my national insurance number and unique taxpayer reference.

I got this response back from them:
You may wish to provide other documentary evidence to support your application. However this will be at the caseworker discretion, if they are not satisfied they may request further evidence. This could delay your application.

Please note that as the onus is upon the individual to ensure that he/she satisfies the requirements set out in the guidance material that accompanies each and every application form, the Nationality Group is not able to give, indicate or advise upon the outcome of any such application prior to it being correctly submitted and being given full and careful consideration. Therefore, you are advised to read through the guide prior to submitting a future application.
That doesn't really answer my question so I was wondering if anyone on here might have some advice. What kind of evidence should I send with my application? I'm contractually employed by a single company so should I get them to write a letter stating my salary etc? Should I submit P60's from past jobs?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

I would also send them copies of your account showing the payment from your self employment business coming through, if you also have an accountant that does your accounts, then a letter from the accountant showing your earning would do. One more thing I could think of is the contract (s), or work orders you have done as it should be a prove of how much you should be expecting.

I have my own limited company and I took my last year self assessment. however when I went to the NCS, the lady said, this is NOT needed, this is just an alternative prove for people who do not have 1 year PR or ILR. I had more than one year PR when I applied.

Hope this helps

Ayyubi72 · Post by **Ayyubi72** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:38 am

UKnow wrote:

I would also send them copies of your account showing the payment from your self employment business coming through, if you also have an accountant that does your accounts, then a letter from the accountant showing your earning would do. One more thing I could think of is the contract (s), or work orders you have done as it should be a prove of how much you should be expecting.

All this is totally irrelevant and this paperwork is not required. For naturalisation applications, HO is not interested in knowing how much you will earn or how much is your earning potential or forecast by an accountant.

Just mention you NI number and UTR number. If you want to include more docs then include the letter received from HMRC that you are self employed. Leave the rest to caseworker.

Rajuk09 · Post by **Rajuk09** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:28 am

I could not see Section 7 in AN form ? it has 6 sections only. but under evidence list I can see following ..

"SECTION 7 Evidence for Selft employment........"

Am I missing something ? And I am a IT contractor , having own limited company , current acounting year completed for my company , yet to do my accounts, will my previous year accounts can be attached or need to do currrent year ? (will take some time and money for accountant) Please advice.

Ayyubi72 · Post by **Ayyubi72** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:54 am

They ask for

The most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account

Rajuk09 · Post by **Rajuk09** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:01 pm

So Can i print it from http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/ ? or do I need a paper statement send from HMRC ?

Ayyubi72 · Post by **Ayyubi72** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:05 pm

Online printout is fine.

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:15 pm

I sent another email to the UKBA help desk asking them to clarify their response because it didn't answer my question and I got an email back from a different person that was exactly the same as the first email, word for word. It's like they didn't even read my question and just copy/pasted a generic response...

I realise that the only reason they're asking for my statement is to make sure that I pay taxes. Since I have been employed and paid taxes through PAYE prior to April 2013 I can show that I've paid taxes through P60's/P45 or even just checking my national insurance number. I began work as a freelancer at the start of this tax year so I cannot have a self assessment statement. I just feel that people that work in the customer service department don't really understand this.

At the same time I've been told that my application could get rejected if I don't submit all the required documents and if it is rejected then my payment won't be refunded. So I was wondering if anyone has had a successful application even though they didn't provide a statement of accounts. Also if anyone knows if there is any way to dispute an outcome if the caseworker decided to reject my application because of this.

UKnow · Post by **UKnow** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:37 pm

Just mention you NI number and UTR number.

This is not enough if you do not have a PAYE salary. you need other prove,

You are correct they are not interested in how much money you earn for a citizenship application. However, they are interested in making sure you earned some money and pay tax in this country i.e. you are still residing here for at least a year beyond the PR date, as a self employed person. This is why in my case they did not need it as I had more than one year PR when I applied.

Eirikur · Post by **Eirikur** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:40 pm

I'm selfemployed myself and ran into the same problem when applying for ILR a few years ago.
You may ask your accountant for a statement confirming the fact you haven't had to file a SA yet.
Also you could send them your certificate of incorporation and VAT certificate.

Fairychild · Post by **Fairychild** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:44 pm

I have a similar question. My husband has not worked for a few years and have recently registered as self employed and a low earner. He is an artist. (before this he worked as an administrator and all tax paid correctly until he was unemployed and then self employed as artist).

He has no self assessment form yet.. Should we wait to apply or do you think we can apply stating above...

He has ILR for a year and tier 1 dependant before that so income was never an issue before.

Rajuk09 · Post by **Rajuk09** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:35 pm

Ayyubi72 wrote:Online printout is fine.

I have a Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangement , so is NI number sufficient ?

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:43 pm

Rajuk09 wrote:
Ayyubi72 wrote:Online printout is fine.
I have a Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangement , so is NI number sufficient ?

Just fill in your employer's details in section 3.1-3.5 and of course fill in your national insurance number in 1.10, you don't need a statement of account.

Ref: Page 8 on the guide http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ide_an.pdf

"SECTION 3: GOOD CHARACTER
Among the duties and obligations which you are expected to fulfil is payment of income tax and National Insurance contributions. We may ask H.M. Revenue & Customs for confirmation that your tax and National Insurance affairs are in order. When you sign the application form you will be giving your consent for us to approach them.
3.1 – 3.5. If you do not pay income tax through PAYE you must demonstrate that you have discharged your obligations towards the H.M. Revenue & Customs, by attaching a Self Assessment Statement of Account (see page 16)."

Rajuk09 · Post by **Rajuk09** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:45 pm

pereguinn wrote:
Rajuk09 wrote:
Ayyubi72 wrote:Online printout is fine.
I have a Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangement , so is NI number sufficient ?
Just fill in your employer's details in section 3.1-3.5 and of course fill in your national insurance number in 1.10, you don't need a statement of account.

Ref: Page 8 on the guide http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ide_an.pdf

"SECTION 3: GOOD CHARACTER
Among the duties and obligations which you are expected to fulfil is payment of income tax and National Insurance contributions. We may ask H.M. Revenue & Customs for confirmation that your tax and National Insurance affairs are in order. When you sign the application form you will be giving your consent for us to approach them.
3.1 – 3.5. If you do not pay income tax through PAYE you must demonstrate that you have discharged your obligations towards the H.M. Revenue & Customs, by attaching a Self Assessment Statement of Account (see page 16)."

I am IT consultant , Director of my own limited company , and use PAYE for the salary I take from my company. So do you mean , need to enter my Limited company details(as employer details) ?

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:19 pm

Yep, that's it.

All they want in that section is to make sure you pay your taxes and national insurance, so if you get a net salary by PAYE from your own limited company you don't need to provide anything else.

A statement of account is only needed if you get a gross salary and are responsible for paying your own taxes. As this is how the home office can tell that you're paying the right amount of taxes and national insurance for your income.

Rajuk09 · Post by **Rajuk09** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:27 pm

pereguinn wrote:Yep, that's it.

All they want in that section is to make sure you pay your taxes and national insurance, so if you get a net salary by PAYE from your own limited company you don't need to provide anything else.

A statement of account is only needed if you get a gross salary and are responsible for paying your own taxes. As this is how the home office can tell that you're paying the right amount of taxes and national insurance for your income.

Sorry for question again, the problem is , in every year , I will come under threshold of paying Taxes / NI only in second 6 month period , so there will be no payment of NI or Taxes as per salary I get , is this OK ? Or will this cause any problem like I am NOT paying taxes ?

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:29 pm

UKnow wrote:Just mention you NI number and UTR number.

This is not enough if you do not have a PAYE salary. you need other prove,

You are correct they are not interested in how much money you earn for a citizenship application. However, they are interested in making sure you earned some money and pay tax in this country i.e. you are still residing here for at least a year beyond the PR date, as a self employed person. This is why in my case they did not need it as I had more than one year PR when I applied.

Hi UKnow, I'm new to this forum and still don't really understand some of the acronyms used. What do you mean by PR?

I do not have a PAYE salary. I am an ongoing contractor for a single company. I invoice them monthly for my work and they transfer payment to my account (much like you would a freelancer). I have registered with HMRC as self employed not as a limited company, I do not have an accountant either.

This is the first time I've been self employed (well, since April) so I'm still new to this. I've spoken to HMRC and I'm paying class 2 national insurance monthly by direct debit, in April 2014 they said that they will post me a form for me to complete so I can pay that years' taxes and class 4 national insurance. I imagine I will need to fill in how much I've earned in the year then.

Until that time I have no evidence that I am paying taxes for the 2013/2014 tax year. I do have evidence that I've paid taxes previous to April 2013 in the form of P60s and P45.

Unfortunately it doesn't say on the guide what I can do in this situation and I think all other users' examples have been a little different from my own for me to feel confident that I can apply

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:37 pm

Rajuk09 wrote:
pereguinn wrote:Yep, that's it.

All they want in that section is to make sure you pay your taxes and national insurance, so if you get a net salary by PAYE from your own limited company you don't need to provide anything else.

A statement of account is only needed if you get a gross salary and are responsible for paying your own taxes. As this is how the home office can tell that you're paying the right amount of taxes and national insurance for your income.
Sorry for question again, the problem is , in every year , I will come under threshold of paying Taxes / NI only in second 6 month period , so there will be no payment of NI or Taxes as per salary I get , is this OK ? Or will this cause any problem like I am NOT paying taxes ?

Sorry, Rajuk09, I don't really understand your case.

By providing your national insurance number and your employer details (your own limited company) they can check through your national insurance number and tax office reference number that you have paid all the tax that you are due.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that you will come under threshold as my understanding is that if you pay taxes through PAYE arrangements then you should be more or less up to date on your tax payments.

UKnow · Post by **UKnow** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:13 pm

pereguinn wrote:Yep, that's it.

All they want in that section is to make sure you pay your taxes and national insurance, so if you get a net salary by PAYE from your own limited company you don't need to provide anything else.

A statement of account is only needed if you get a gross salary and are responsible for paying your own taxes. As this is how the home office can tell that you're paying the right amount of taxes and national insurance for your income.

I agree you have PAYEE, then you need just the NI number and your UTR, you are good to go then

UKnow · Post by **UKnow** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:19 pm

pereguinn wrote:
UKnow wrote:Just mention you NI number and UTR number.

This is not enough if you do not have a PAYE salary. you need other prove,

You are correct they are not interested in how much money you earn for a citizenship application. However, they are interested in making sure you earned some money and pay tax in this country i.e. you are still residing here for at least a year beyond the PR date, as a self employed person. This is why in my case they did not need it as I had more than one year PR when I applied.
Hi UKnow, I'm new to this forum and still don't really understand some of the acronyms used. What do you mean by PR? PR is Permanent Residency Card, same as the ILR, but PR is used for people who come through the EU/ EU spouse path.

I do not have a PAYE salary. I am an ongoing contractor for a single company. I invoice them monthly for my work and they transfer payment to my account (much like you would a freelancer). I have registered with HMRC as self employed not as a limited company, I do not have an accountant either.
Sure not a problem, HMRC letter should be OK, but I would use one of the other documents I stated previously mainly to just give the citizenship fox confidence in your situation.

This is the first time I've been self employed (well, since April) so I'm still new to this. I've spoken to HMRC and I'm paying class 2 national insurance monthly by direct debit, in April 2014 they said that they will post me a form for me to complete so I can pay that years' taxes and class 4 national insurance. I imagine I will need to fill in how much I've earned in the year then. Correct, this is separate, I assume this is your income tax form, is that what you mean? it is not linked to what you send to citizenship office.

Until that time I have no evidence that I am paying taxes for the 2013/2014 tax year. I do have evidence that I've paid taxes previous to April 2013 in the form of P60s and P45.

Unfortunately it doesn't say on the guide what I can do in this situation and I think all other users' examples have been a little different from my own for me to feel confident that I can apply

How long you had your ILR/PR, which ever you have i.e. what is the issue date on your card?

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:14 am

Thanks for clarifying, UKnow.

I've had ILR since 2009. I can prove I've been earning money and paying tax on that for that entire time up until I became self employed this April. I have a P60 for every year since 2009 and then a P45 from this February which is when I left my job. And then to prove that I will be paying tax when it's due I can show that I have registered as self employed through my UTR and HMRC letter.

So that's all I have as proof. I'm just not sure if a caseworker that's assigned my case would be able to understand all that when all they're asked to look for is a statement of account.

UKnow · Post by **UKnow** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:40 am

pereguinn wrote:Thanks for clarifying, UKnow.

I've had ILR since 2009. I can prove I've been earning money and paying tax on that for that entire time up until I became self employed this April. I have a P60 for every year since 2009 and then a P45 from this February which is when I left my job. And then to prove that I will be paying tax when it's due I can show that I have registered as self employed through my UTR and HMRC letter.

So that's all I have as proof. I'm just not sure if a caseworker that's assigned my case would be able to understand all that when all they're asked to look for is a statement of account.

I think you should be OK, you do not need P60 or P45 for previous jobs, you NI and HMRC letter should be enough, as I said for my case, they rejected my self assessment in the NCS and they said you do not need it, it is only needed for applicants who have less than one year PR. To be more sure, you can always check with the NCS you are applying for before you go as well

All the best

pereguinn · Post by **pereguinn** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:20 am

Thanks for your help UKnow!

Just to confirm, you were self employed not a director of your own limited company, you didn't submit a self assessment statement of account and now your citizenship application has been approved?

Sorry to nitpick it's just I've seen stories on here where people applied or submitted evidence on the advice of NCS or lawyers and then were rejected based on that evidence.

aladyce · Post by **aladyce** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:17 pm

My real question and concern is - Does HO need HMRC confirmation that you have been paying taxes?
Is payment of taxes and NI one of the conditions for Naturalisation?

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

Self Assessment - SA Info for Nationalisation Applications

Re: Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

Re: Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

Re: Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

Re: Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

Re: Self employed since April, don't have SA statement

The real question is - Does HO need HMRC confirmation?