New Info on Court Case

Sahil wrote:http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/irelan ... 75932.html

This is the artical in The Irish Times Re High court ruling!!

Can someone post the full text here ?

As i am not a subscriber

Finally i got the text !
Guys look at the colour this case has been given
I really find that strange that Irish media always show the negative side of the Immigrants.there are 500 Legitemate people waiting but ur "IRISH TIMES" will only find that "Cleaner" for the comment

Its funny isnt it !

[quote]1,000 married couples face ‘legal fiasco’
Kitty Holland
An estimated 1,000 married couples face what is being described by the Migrant Rights Centre of Ireland as a “legal fiascoâ€

@ Joesoap101.

You don't move to a country because you like the weather, or because you think it's pretty. You move to a country because you like the work there, because you think it's good for your non-european wife to enjoy an European way of living without the barrier of language. Because you like the people and because you think there is oppurtunity for you there.

If a had chosen a country on the basis of weather and prettyness, I'd be lounging in Aruba right now.

Ahern to announce junior ministers in next 48 hours
19/06/2007 - 07:38:22

The Taoiseach Bertie Ahern is expected to announce his new team of junior ministers within the next 48 hours.

Mr Ahern has already indicated that he will be creating a number of new positions in areas such as immigration, education and the elderly.

Two of the new junior ministers are already known, with Dick Roche becoming Minister of State for European Affairs and Green Party leader Trevor Sargent set to become Minister of State for Food.

The rest of the roles are expected to be formally filled at tomorrow's meeting of the Cabinet.

The decision to increase the number of junior ministers has been attacked by the opposition, who say it is a blatant waste of taxpayers' money designed to quell unrest among Fianna Fáil backbenchers.

They have also criticised the Greens and the PDs for acquiescing to the move.

Some of us have no real alternative....my wife has been living here as a European Citizen for the last 6 years! we really don't have the option of starting somewhere else with both of us being jobless. What is really galling is that a work permit holder from a Non-European country would seem to have more rights to bring his family over than a European citizen in Ireland...I wish the article would have made that point!

I wish the Lawyer had also quoted this case of the Polish lady with her Non E.U (then) husband.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/registre/ ... 335_EN.doc

Petition 0646/2006 by Hanna Sobczak (Polish), on the rejection by the Irish authorities of her Bulgarian spouse’s application for a permanent residence permit in Ireland

Ohk Guys... as we all know that High court has ruled agaisnt us but one question:

From when this new Fu*kin rule should be applied? As most of us has filed our EU1 aaplications in 2006, will this new rule affect those peoples? When we filed our applications we have not been told from anyone that there is new rule that Non-EU should reside any other member state prior to came ireland and even it was not written in the EU1 form anywhere. This is just a disaster.

I am with you, my letter says that I didnt showed that I have lived in another EU country, they never asked me before in the EU1 Form, and I was not trying to lie, if they had told me before I wouldnt have been here waiting for more than 6 month, more I wouldnt have never applied that way I they knew it was going to be denied.....its like they told us to apply thrugh the EU1 Form...but they knew we were going to get a denie 6 month after that...it sounds really bad way of working things out

I've just gone into the Immigrant Council today to ask for news on the EU1 fiasco. They were very informative, and seemed to understand and share my absolute frustration with this particular issue.

One thing I was told is that a lot of these court cases have been settled out of court. The only ones that make it to the High Court or Supreme Court (i.e., the ones we hear about) are the ones that the DoJ knows it will win. All the other ones (apparently, boatloads of people have sued them) have been settled out of court because the DoJ either knows it will lose or knows it will be made to look bad if made public.

I was told that, if I'd been married for a couple years and have lived elsewhere with my husband (at home in the US, for example) suing for my right to residency would probably be a good move. Those are the kind of cases that the DoJ have been settling out of court- granting residency. So, if you've been married for years, and/or have children- and have the money!- this may be a good next step.

The DoJ was probably really happy about the publicity of the Kumar case. They're probably cheering at the Irish Times article. Apparently, in that case, the non-EU citizen had been trying to claim asylum in several countries, and was clearly using the EU1 as another means of getting into a European country. He also had other points against him. So tailor-made to make the DoJ look good and other residency-seekers look bad.

if i leave ireland for a month or so and live in another EU state and then come back here......would that make any difference?

i wouldnt mind going on a month's holiday and living in uk this while

No, you have to proof residence for at least 6 months. A tourist visa is not residence.

Archigabe said:

What is really galling is that a work permit holder from a Non-European country would seem to have more rights to bring his family over than a European citizen in Ireland...

Last week I went over to the GNIB to try to get them to stamp my passport so I could enter another EU country (temporaly) even if my original tourist stamp for Ireland was expired.

I argued with the two guys behind the desk for almost an hour (actually, I talked with at least 4 people). They ended telling me I was right, but there was nothing they could do. When I told them "then a chinese or nigerian work-permit holder has more rights to bring his/her family over than my european husband?", they half-smiled, look to the floor and said in a very low voice "yes".

Things are definitely upside-down

Yes, I heard from another source that Kumar had been living illegally in Belgium and the UK, so the High Court conveniently used the Akrich case to decide on his application. That's so unfair to the rest of us who have not broken any laws and who are following the law to the letter.It's a lost cause if we wait for the Kumar case to go to the Supreme court. I think it's time for us who have no immigration violations to get together and launch a lawsuit.
I was also advised to send an appeal to the DOJ since I received a denial letter so that there was no danger of them deporting me.I would suggest everyone who's been sent a denial letter to send an appeal in writing to the D.O.J

BigAppleWoodenShoe wrote:@ Joesoap101.

You don't move to a country because you like the weather, or because you think it's pretty. You move to a country because you like the work there, because you think it's good for your non-european wife to enjoy an European way of living without the barrier of language. Because you like the people and because you think there is oppurtunity for you there.

If a had chosen a country on the basis of weather and prettyness, I'd be lounging in Aruba right now.

That is absolute rubbish. People often do make decisions based on climate (Australia). BUt that was not my point. Why stay somewhere if you are clearly not welcome, never mind the arguments about your 'rights'

You may 'like' the Irish people but they dont really 'like' you, as an immigrant who they view as a sponger/asylum seeker. The attitude of the Dept of Justice is completely reflected in the general population. If you dont see this, then you're living in a dream world.

You might be better advised to go live in the Netherlands for 3 years and obtain citizenship for your wife, it makes much more sense- as apposed to 7.5 years in Ireland.

stmani wrote:if i leave ireland for a month or so and live in another EU state and then come back here......would that make any difference?

i wouldnt mind going on a month's holiday and living in uk this while

Wouldn't help. I provided the DOJ with proof of living in the UK for 2 months before coming to Ireland with my husband and still got declined.

archigabe wrote:Yes, I heard from another source that Kumar had been living illegally in Belgium and the UK, so the High Court conveniently used the Akrich case to decide on his application. That's so unfair to the rest of us who have not broken any laws and who are following the law to the letter.It's a lost cause if we wait for the Kumar case to go to the Supreme court. I think it's time for us who have no immigration violations to get together and launch a lawsuit.
I was also advised to send an appeal to the DOJ since I received a denial letter so that there was no danger of them deporting me.I would suggest everyone who's been sent a denial letter to send an appeal in writing to the D.O.J

I agree. Let's all get together. How about our house? I'll start a new topic and we can get a general feel for it??

joesoap101 wrote:

BigAppleWoodenShoe wrote:@ Joesoap101.

You don't move to a country because you like the weather, or because you think it's pretty. You move to a country because you like the work there, because you think it's good for your non-european wife to enjoy an European way of living without the barrier of language. Because you like the people and because you think there is oppurtunity for you there.

If a had chosen a country on the basis of weather and prettyness, I'd be lounging in Aruba right now.

That is absolute rubbish. People often do make decisions based on climate (Australia). BUt that was not my point. Why stay somewhere if you are clearly not welcome, never mind the arguments about your 'rights'

You may 'like' the Irish people but they dont really 'like' you, as an immigrant who they view as a sponger/asylum seeker. The attitude of the Dept of Justice is completely reflected in the general population. If you dont see this, then you're living in a dream world.

You might be better advised to go live in the Netherlands for 3 years and obtain citizenship for your wife, it makes much more sense- as apposed to 7.5 years in Ireland.

Where are you now or going joesoap? You thinking of the Netherlands? Have any info on it? at least the language will be easy for me.

how come the language easy for you!!!!!!!!!!! for me thats the only reason stopping me from immigrating to neitherland or belgium where people get citizenship in 3 years.............

stmani wrote:how come the language easy for you!!!!!!!!!!! for me thats the only reason stopping me from immigrating to neitherland or belgium where people get citizenship in 3 years.............

My native language is Afrikaans which is similar to dutch. In fact it is called Spam dutch so it would be easy for me to learn as I can already understand a lot of it. I also speak German (but am losing it fast as I'm not practicing!) And.. strangely enough Zulu. But I don't think there are any countries that I would want to live in that that would help me

i think we better keep fighting for our rights rather then leaving the whole thing on its way. i already have a family permit for uk but im better off be fighting in ireland as i have spent 6 yrs of my life in this country, i studied here, worked here and got married here....i dont see any other alternative but to stay!!!!

I've lived in Ireland for 6 years and fortunately I've not experienced too many difficulties with the system although I agree that the system is not working at all... I'm going to Boston in a couple of months, I'm not necesarily a big fan of the US but no one can deny that it still offers excellent opportunities.

If you speak Afrikaans, living in the Netherlands is made much simpler. You will understand most of what people are saying in a few weeks- learning the language is also relatively easy- although the grammatical differences between Afrikaans and Dutch are substantial. You will be able to read newspapers and understand the news on TV.

There is a substantial South African community in the Netherlands, but I dont think its particularly easy to find employment, but it is do-able. I lived there for almost 2 years- quite liked it, it certainly is better organised than Ireland and you wont get MRSA if you go to a hospital there (you wont wait for days on a trolley either).

Keep in mind that the Netherlands is an egalitarian society- this may not suit everyone... It seems that most Dutch workers ends up earning the same wages due to the tax system- I remember when I lived there, the government collected too much tax so everyone got 60 euro in the mail, it was great even though a relatively small amount!

joesoap101 wrote:I've lived in Ireland for 6 years and fortunately I've not experienced too many difficulties with the system although I agree that the system is not working at all... I'm going to Boston in a couple of months, I'm not necesarily a big fan of the US but no one can deny that it still offers excellent opportunities.

If you speak Afrikaans, living in the Netherlands is made much simpler. You will understand most of what people are saying in a few weeks- learning the language is also relatively easy- although the grammatical differences between Afrikaans and Dutch are substantial. You will be able to read newspapers and understand the news on TV.

There is a substantial South African community in the Netherlands, but I dont think its particularly easy to find employment, but it is do-able. I lived there for almost 2 years- quite liked it, it certainly is better organised than Ireland and you wont get MRSA if you go to a hospital there (you wont wait for days on a trolley either).

Keep in mind that the Netherlands is an egalitarian society- this may not suit everyone... It seems that most Dutch workers ends up earning the same wages due to the tax system- I remember when I lived there, the government collected too much tax so everyone got 60 euro in the mail, it was great even though a relatively small amount!

That sounds cool! Getting money in the mail I am losing the Afrikaans fast but I'm naturally good with languages so it would be fine. I think we'll sue some people first and give it a whirl here before trying for other places but will definately keep options open and it sounds ok there. Thanks for the info joesoap.

Hey, JoeSoap101, for the record, I, BigApple, do care about the weather in a country!!! It's just because WoodenShoe is from a damn wet country as well he doesn't mind it as much over here. I am so missing my hot summers right about now! My only concern is that I have some of my Dutch-Indian friends (like from Suriname) face discrimination. They might be 'equal' but there are still facial issues there. I mean, we are probably going to end up residing there, but there is never one country in the world that is peachy-keen. They all have their faults.

Guys .. Please check this link !!

http://www.politicsni.com/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0


does it mean that couple who married in other EU member state are eligible for recidancy card in Ireland??????

well in my case .. i married in Austria !!

Thats what my wife Got from immigrant council !!

Hi xxxx,

Thank you for your query.

Unfortunately you are correct that the High Court rejected the first EU
Treaty Rights case, though this decision will be appealed to the Suprem
Court. There are other court cases similar to your own that will be coming
to the High Court soon, and we hope to have a decision on those by October.

Your husband has several options open to him at the moment, while you are
waiting for the court's decisions.

1. The first thing I would recommend is that you both file an independent
appeal with the Department of Justice. We can help you with this if you
wish. I would also suggest filing a complaint with the European Commission
in Dublin. They have official complaint forms on their website
http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/compl ... orm_en.rtf

2. Next, it is important that your husband either renews his student visa
(if this is an option), or he can apply for either a Work Permit or a
Spousal Work Permit so that he is remaining legally in the State while he
waits for a final decision on the EU Treaty Rights court cases. Information
on work permits and spousal work permits can be found online at
http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/

I hope this information helps you. If you have any further questions,
please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards,


Immigrant Council of Ireland

Does anyone have any infomation on the new court cases regarding EU1 application?