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Amendment to EEA Regulation from 1/01/2014 Singh diluted

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

euroguys
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Post by euroguys » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:03 pm

Its on two or more fronts for the Brits it will mean demonstrating a near to complete revocation of any residency in the UK (de facto) and a comprehensive integration in the host country that they move to

It also means that for E.U. folk living in the UK the proof of qualification , reasonable suspicions " being generated (sudden ceasing of work without registering for example) might allow the H.O. to require information/interview to reconfirm any rights claimed or evidenced by a residence card in addition this will over come the "you do not have to apply for a residence card for family members who under this could be asked (although not systematically) to provide evidence of the basis of there residence.

It also means for E.U. if you were here already and failed to secure qualification they could deny you re-entry

Next they will start to change "public policy" i guess

jinkazama_11
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Post by jinkazama_11 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:37 pm

Obie wrote:Case of O.

Case of S.

I think all potential Surinder Singh people, who will be applying for an EEA family permit or Residence Card after 01/01/2014, are best advised to seek legal advice on their position.

I envisage a significant number of Refusal in the New year under this category.

General advice could not longer be provided for people in this category, most are most likely going to have to resolve their case in court.
any clue when court judgement is expected in these cases?

Graham Weifang
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Post by Graham Weifang » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:29 pm

Hi all,

I guess that previously where the UKBA website said "It makes no difference if the only reason the EEA citizen etc,,,etc,,,etc,,," to the opposite end of the spectrum, where the EEA citizen is now expected (unlawfully) to relinquish his abode in his home state, ie, to sell his UK home, and by that, he is now deemed to be more of a resident in a host member state, in order to bring his non-EEA wife back to his home nationality state, ie back to UK.

I don't think these proposals will have any bearing on non-EEA spouses that have already arrived in UK.

I hope the folk who are infinitely more clued up on EEA things than I ever will be, will advise accordingly, as they always have done (Thank you)

I would expect that the UK government will know they are on shaky ground and that probable ECJ court cases will be heading their way soon.

I just feel for the honest folk who may be caught up in this UKBA (Home Office as it is now) fiasco.

GW

357mag
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Post by 357mag » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:36 pm

Dont think that can be so Graham, there are people with more than one home in different places around the world, otherwise it would prevent people from expanding their own little empire.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

jinkazama_11
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Post by jinkazama_11 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:51 pm

I think these new rules are against the ECJ judgement in Akrich?
Its harsh that you have to sell your house in your home country in order to bring your family members to your home country. HO is full of idiots, what the hell they are thinking

357mag
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Post by 357mag » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:37 pm

Findings from Akrich
3.
Where the marriage between a national of a Member State and a national of a non-Member State is genuine, the fact that the spouses installed themselves in another Member State in order, on their return to the Member State of which the former is a national, to obtain the benefit of rights conferred by Community law is not relevant to an assessment of their legal situation by the competent authorities of the latter State.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

AngieD
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Post by AngieD » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:03 pm

I have today spoken to someone, who has spoken to Your Europe Advice Team at length today (yes I know this is second hand) and according to them the changes to regulation 9 are because of the Guidance issued in 2009 and in particular 4.3

"4.3. Other forms of abuse

Abuse could also occur when EU citizens, unable to be joined by their third country family members in their Member State of origin because of the application of national immigration rules preventing it, move to another Member State with the sole purpose to evade, upon returning to their home Member State, the national law that frustrated their family reunification efforts, invoking their rights under Community law.

The defining characteristics of the line between genuine and abusive use of Community law should be based on the assessment of whether the exercise of Community rights in a Member State from which the EU citizens and their family members return was genuine and effective . In such case, EU citizens and their families are protected by Community law on free movement of persons. This assessment can only be made on a case-by-case basis. If, in a concrete case of return, the use of Community rights was genuine and effective, the Member State of origin should not inquire into the personal motives that triggered the previous move.

When necessary, Member States may define a set of indicative criteria to assess whether residence in the host Member State was genuine and effective . National authorities may in particular take into account the following factors:

- the circumstances under which the EU citizen concerned moved to the host Member State (previous unsuccessful attempts to acquire residence for a third country spouse under national law, job offer in the host Member State, capacity in which the EU citizen resides in the host Member State) ;

- degree of effectiveness and genuineness of residence in the host Member State (envisaged and actual residence in the host Member State, efforts made to establish in the host Member State, including national registration formalities and securing accommodation, enrolling children at an educational establishment) ;

- circumstances under which the EU citizen concerned moved back home (return immediately after marrying a third country national in another Member State) .

The above criteria should be considered possible triggers for investigation, without any automatic inferences from results or subsequent investigations. In assessing whether the exercise of the right to move and reside freely in another Member State of the EU was genuine and effective, national authorities may not rely on a sole attribute but must pay due attention to all the circumstances of the individual case. They must assess the conduct of persons concerned in the light of the objectives pursued by Community law and act on the basis of objective evidence[65].

J. returns home from another Member State with S., his third country spouse. S. unsuccessfuly attempted twice to acquire residence in J.’s Member State. J. continued to work home during his alleged residence in another Member State.

The authorities contact the authorities of the host Member State and find out that J . returned home only after three weeks. The couple stayed in a tourist hotel and paid for the three weeks of accommodation in advance. Taking all of this into account, J. and S. do not benefit from the provisions of the Directive.

It cannot be inferred that the residence in the host Member State is not genuine and effective only because an EU citizen maintains some ties to the home Member State, all the more if his status in the host country is unstable (e.g. a work contract of limited duration) . The mere fact that a person consciously places himself in a situation conferring a right does not in itself constitute a sufficient basis for assuming that there is abuse[66].

All relevant considerations set out above on investigation, material and procedural safeguards, co-operation between Member States relating to marriages of convenience apply mutatis mutants ."

They have only had since 2009 to look at this!

Obie
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Post by Obie » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:27 pm

Well firstly, the guidance is not law, nor was it intended to be used as law.

Akrich is the law, the directive is the law, and so long as the law is concerned, the only examination is for people in article 3 (2). Even if the UK is entitled to examine, they cannot do it systematically. Akrich states that the motive is irrelevant , so long as the person undertook genuine and effective work, as opposed to ancilliary or small scale.

Neither does the guidian state that people centre of residence should be in the other memberstate.
I
Akrich, singh mostly concerned the movement of workers or self employed person. It is the movement for work or business that conferred the right of residence, not the right of residence that confers the right to freedom of worker under Article 48 of TFEU.

Even Carpenter makes this right clear.

The UK cannot say that a citizens right under the treaty can only be invoked if the resided in a memberstate for x amount of time, and integrate there. Integration in EU law, comes in when one is talking about Permanent Residence, not the right to move and reside freely.

For example, an EU citizen was transfered by her company to Germany, she found the love of her life there, got married and applied for residence for him, which was approved.
2 months later, UK says she cannot qualify, because she was not integrated in Germany or the centre of her residence was not based in Germany.

That would go against all the principle of freemovement.

She would have to choose between been seperated from her husband, or give up her job.

This could not be the purpose of Surinder Singh or Eind.

What if the person had like Mrs Akrich or Mr Eind spent 6-7 months in the member but continue to maintain her home and mortgage and child benefit.

This is clearly flawed.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

AngieD
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Post by AngieD » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:41 pm

I totally agree Obie

The actual Directive and the relevant case law remains in place

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:24 pm

OLUMUYIWA wrote:How will this affect people who have already submitted an application under the SS route , and are awaiting decision?
As long as an application has been submitted before the changes, you will under the old rules (for future applications as well).
Check the FAQ before posting!
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Obie
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Post by Obie » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:26 pm

Further analysis of Surinder Singh Changes
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:00 pm

Obie wrote:Further analysis of Surinder Singh Changes

so basically it will be near to impossible for majority using SS route route from jan 2014
UK Student Visa : 04/2004 - 09/2009
EEA Residence Card : 07/2010 - 7/2015
EU Settled Status: Confirmed on 16th July 2019
Naturalisation : Confirmed on 02nd Oct 2020
Passport Approval : 21st Feb 2021

jinkazama_11
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Post by jinkazama_11 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:37 pm

That's not good

357mag
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Post by 357mag » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:49 pm

Akrich had worked in Ireland for six months before trying to return home to the UK with her husband using the Surinder Singh route. The Court seemed to accept this was sufficient to trigger the right to return home.

So 6 months should still be ok, during which time you will work there pay taxws and be going through the process of getting residence card. I can see there will be a few cases going through court on this.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

jinkazama_11
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Post by jinkazama_11 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:13 pm

Lets see what happens on 12/12/2013 in O S.

Jellybean105
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Post by Jellybean105 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:49 pm

Will these new rules apply to the EEA family permit OR the UK resident card applied via EEA2?

dalebutt
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Post by dalebutt » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:30 am

It will apply to both starting on the 1st of next month, if you are ready best apply now before these rules are being enforced. Although it might not stand the test of time, it will defo waste sometime

Jellybean105
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Post by Jellybean105 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:36 am

We have already applied for the EEA family permit (currently in Ireland) which is valid till April but we are not planning on returning until after April so we need to re-apply.
I thought it would not affect the UK resident card application as it is meant to be optional?

Obie
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Post by Obie » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:40 am

I believe you may well be fine under the new rules, no need to be worried. The fact that we were issued an EEA family permit, you did not immediately run to the UK, indicate your centre of residence was in Ireland. You did not leave the UK to circumvent the rules, but for genuine and legitimate reasons.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Jellybean105
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Post by Jellybean105 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:53 am

Oh that sounds great! Thank you for making my day! :D

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:43 am

Jellybean105 wrote:We have already applied for the EEA family permit (currently in Ireland) which is valid till April but we are not planning on returning until after April so we need to re-apply.
I thought it would not affect the UK resident card application as it is meant to be optional?
I believe you will be able to meet the new requirements (being in Irelad for more than 6 months would probably meet that). You can also argue that you should enjoy from the transitional arrangements and should be using the old rules. The transitional arrangements require you to have a Family Permit before January 2014 which is used to be admitted to the UK. It doesn't really cover cases of using the FP and applying for a new one after January but I believe you should benefit from the transitional arrangements.
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vinny
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Post by vinny » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:52 pm

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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357mag
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Post by 357mag » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:51 am

in order to acquire a right of residence in the UK for his or her non-EEA family member

Thats discrimination. Notice it does not apply to Brit bringing in a European partner
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

Obie
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Post by Obie » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:35 am

It will be interesting to hear what AJ Sharpton will say tomorrow, whether she will be influenced by the sentiment back home, or whether she will have only the benefits of the internal market in her mind.

Her opinion on Zambrano was surperb. Lets hope it will be the same tomorrow.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:55 pm

Obie wrote:It will be interesting to hear what AJ Sharpton will say tomorrow, whether she will be influenced by the sentiment back home, or whether she will have only the benefits of the internal market in her mind.

Her opinion on Zambrano was surperb. Lets hope it will be the same tomorrow.
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