Can a Northern Ireland resident apply for EEA Family Visa

Hello members this is my first post on the forum. I was directed here by a member on another forum.

I am married to a Thai citizen. I live in Northern Ireland and I am an Irish passport holder. My wife has been to my home in Belfast each summer for the last 3 years. Her first two visits were on tourist visitors visa's and her last visit was on a spouse visitors visa. All visa's were issued by the British Embassy in Bangkok.

I have just today been informed that I can apply via the EEA route. Is this true? I thought the British Government has closed the loop hole by stating that the sponsor must have lived for some time in the European Country where their passport is issued. I have never lived in the South of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement does state that I can have Dual Nationality.

All replies will be greatly appreciated

Thankyou, Mike.

I'm in the same situation (Belfast born: Brit/Irish dual national) but, unfortunately, we can't have our partners apply for an EEA family permit if we have both citizenships. That's the way the directive works. No-one cares whether or not you have lived in ROI, but if you have British citizenship you're not eligible to apply for an EEA family permit. The directive states that we can only have our partners apply for an EEA FP in a country of which we are not a citizen.

I'm in the process of renouncing British citizenship and then plan to use my Irish citizenship to get my partner into the UK.

Of course, you could use the Surinder Singh route (by working in another EEA country and having your spouse stay with you; then apply for an EEA FP to go back to the UK).

Good luck!
CC

Irishfella wrote:Hello members this is my first post on the forum. I was directed here by a member on another forum.

I am married to a Thai citizen. I live in Northern Ireland and I am an Irish passport holder. My wife has been to my home in Belfast each summer for the last 3 years. Her first two visits were on tourist visitors visa's and her last visit was on a spouse visitors visa. All visa's were issued by the British Embassy in Bangkok.

I have just today been informed that I can apply via the EEA route. Is this true? I thought the British Government has closed the loop hole by stating that the sponsor must have lived for some time in the European Country where their passport is issued. I have never lived in the South of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement does state that I can have Dual Nationality.

All replies will be greatly appreciated

Thankyou, Mike.

If you are married to your thai wife she can apply for a family permit to enter UK from her UK embassy using EEA route. As long as you are exercising treaty rights by working.
You dont need UK citizenship to get her here. EEA (you being irish) route would be much prefferable and better than UK (british citizen) route as it will cost you more. I belive its free to apply eea spouse. applying uk spouse charges you.

If youve been married to your wife 3yrs and shes lived in ireland/ROI/North as long as yous are in the "Island of Ireland" she can then apply for irish citizenship but need to be livng here for atleast 1 or 2 yrs within your 3 yrs marriage.

More information can be found here
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

Irish citizenship through marriage

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... riage.html

Just not having a British passport doesn't mean you're not a British citizen! Please exercise caution with this. See here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ment-45902.

The gist is: you're British if you're born in Northern Ireland under normal circumstances (e.g. you have British/Irish parents). You need to take positive action to renounce British citizenship.

@Kristine015: I know that a lot of people think that not holding a British passport is enough to say they're not British. This is not correct...

See this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ily-permit. This is the text:
"The McCarthy judgment determined that a person who holds the nationality of the host Member State (in our case British nationality) and has never exercised their right of free movement and residence does not benefit from the terms of the Free Movement Directive. This is regardless of whether or not they hold dual nationality with another member state. This means that family members are also unable to derive a right of residence under the Directive on their basis of their relationship to such a national. British citizens can only acquire free movement rights in certain scenarios and so are in general prevented from circumventing the requirements of the Immigration Rules when sponsoring entry to the UK of family members."

No-one disputes the Irish citizenship for a spouse of Irish citizen who lives on the Island of Ireland for 3 years.

Consider carefully. If you were born in NI (like it or not) you probably have British citizenship and, according to the response from the Home Office in the first link above, the only thin you can do about it is renounce it.

Hi cleoclive,

He mentioned having an Irish passport. Therefore in the eyes of UKBA he is an Irish citizen even if hes never lived in the Republic of Ireland.

What alot of people do not know and understand is that if you were born and living in northern ireland and you have ties with ireland such as parent/grandparent being Irish decend you can automaticaly apply for irish passport without obtaining citizenship.
As well if he choses he can apply for a british passport without any hassle. Or can be a dual nationilty.

If a person has no direct ties (parents/grandparents) with ireland and were born in northern ireland then he is fully a british national and should apply for a uk passport only. For i.e a couple from non-eu country came to work and live in NIreland and their child is born here, the child is a uk citizen only.

The problem with dual nationality, when getting a family member from non eu country to enter UK is that it wont work. You should either only be an irish or a uk citizen to do this.

Sorry, but your understanding is wrong. He has British citizenship (unless he has renounced it) and, therefore, will be rejected if his partner applies for an EEAFP. This is definite. Please read the links I sent. It is extremely clear. Things changed after the McCarthy case in 2012. It makes no difference how he got either citizenship. The fact is that he has both. [ASSUMPTION: OP was born in N. Ireland, not ROI.]

There is no such thing as having a passport without having citizenship. If you don't have citizenship, you can't get a passport. I suspect that you are confused.

I was born in Belfast and have both passports. I am very aware of the situation. I have NO family ties to the ROI at all, but I hold an Irish passport, simply because I was born in Northern Ireland before 2005.

Best
CC

PS: You are definitely right that dual citizenship won't work, but, even if you don't tell the UKBA/Embassy, they might suspect that the OP has British citizenship, simply because of the fact that he was born in Northern Ireland.

Chaoclive I apologise it seems you are right.

chaoclive wrote:Sorry, but your understanding is wrong. He has British citizenship (unless he has renounced it) and, therefore, will be rejected if his partner applies for an EEAFP. This is definite. Please read the links I sent. It is extremely clear. Things changed after the McCarthy case in 2012. It makes no difference how he got either citizenship. The fact is that he has both. [ASSUMPTION: OP was born in N. Ireland, not ROI.]

There is no such thing as having a passport without having citizenship. If you don't have citizenship, you can't get a passport. I suspect that you are confused.

I was born in Belfast and have both passports. I am very aware of the situation. I have NO family ties to the ROI at all, but I hold an Irish passport, simply because I was born in Northern Ireland before 2005.

Best
CC

PS: You are definitely right that dual citizenship won't work, but, even if you don't tell the UKBA/Embassy, they might suspect that the OP has British citizenship, simply because of the fact that he was born in Northern Ireland.

I slightly disagree. NI is a unique situation. People born there can be Irish only, British only or dual nationals. This is determined by the actions taken by the individual. So if you never applied for British passport, only Irish one and identified yourself as such, you will not be considered British. If you held British passport in the past but not anymore, you have identified yourself as British in the past, so you are still British.

Jambo: I have asked the Home Office specifically about this question. The Good Friday Agreement does not affect nationality law (This is confirmed by their FOIA response linked to above, which confirms that you have to 'take positive action' to renounce UK citizenship, no matter how you view yourself.)

If you were born in NI under the conditions stated in nationality law, you are British...no matter what you identify as.

I called the home office once and they were confused about whether not Belfast is a part of the UK.... "Belfast...? Where's that?"

Also, I (US citizen) have been issued a EEA Family Permit. My wife is a dual UK/Irish national. We lived and worked together in Dublin and so were able to avail of the Surinder Singh route.

When I asked they were very clear about this (as in the FOIA request noted above).

Jambo wrote:So if you never applied for British passport, only Irish one and identified yourself as such, you will not be considered British.

A British passport does not confer citizenship but is merely evidence of it.

vinny wrote:

Jambo wrote:So if you never applied for British passport, only Irish one and identified yourself as such, you will not be considered British.

A British passport does not confer citizenship but is merely evidence of it.

Exactly.

I used to think that the Good Friday Agreement was useful in this regard...but it doesn't change the citizenship rules of either country and, therefore, most people born in Northern Ireland are British (whether or not they have a British passport).

chaoclive wrote:Jambo: I have asked the Home Office specifically about this question. The Good Friday Agreement does not affect nationality law (This is confirmed by their FOIA response linked to above, which confirms that you have to 'take positive action' to renounce UK citizenship, no matter how you view yourself.)

If you were born in NI under the conditions stated in nationality law, you are British...no matter what you identify as.

I would take legal advice on this not just accept the HO point of view.

That might work if I had enough money haha. Unfortunately, I'm not able/willing to throw money at this The easiest thing is just ceasing to be British

I think this proves how useless the GFA actually is in practice...when you get down to the essentials it was just a way to appease both parties; nothing seems to have actually changed.

Anyways...I'm almost Irish only Yay...(not that I care about nationality/citizenship BTW).

Irishfella wrote:Hello members this is my first post on the forum. I was directed here by a member on Thaivisa.

I am married to a Thai citizen. I live in Northern Ireland and I am an Irish passport holder. My wife has been to my home in Belfast each summer for the last 3 years. Her first two visits were on tourist visitors visa's and her last visit was on a spouse visitors visa. All visa's were issued by the British Embassy in Bangkok.

I have just today been informed that I can apply via the EEA route. Is this true? I thought the British Government has closed the loop hole by stating that the sponsor must have lived for some time in the European Country where their passport is issued. I have never lived in the South of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement does state that I can have Dual Nationality.

All replies will be greatly appreciated

Thankyou, Mike.

Hi Mike,

There's a of information here, some true, some not.

Basically mate, no, you can't use the EEA route. It changed when the McCarthy Judgement was applied in July in 2012.

I know, I was in the same situation as you, made our application on a Friday in Bangkok, the rules changed on the Monday, phew, we were lucky!

So incase you were getting more confused reading the above, simply put, unfortunately no you can't. Whomever on Thaivisa was mistaken.

Salem is correct.

The options:
1) Follow the UK immigration rules (financial requirements etc)
2) Surinder Singh via another EEA country (of which you don't have citizenship, e.g. France/Germany etc)
3) Renunciation of one of your citizenships (not easy for the British one, but that should allow you to bring your thai wife to NI). There is a lawyer on this forum (Think it's 'el patron' or something like that). He says that some of his clients have been awarded EEAFPs after their partner's renounced British citizenship.

Good luck with your choice！
C

chaoclive wrote:Salem is correct.

The options:
1) Follow the UK immigration rules (financial requirements etc)
2) Surinder Singh via another EEA country (of which you don't have citizenship, e.g. France/Germany etc)
3) Renunciation of one of your citizenships (not easy for the British one, but that should allow you to bring your thai wife to NI). There is a lawyer on this forum (Think it's 'el patron' or something like that). He says that some of his clients have been awarded EEAFPs after their partner's renounced British citizenship.

Good luck with your choice！
C

Correct.

As is the rest of your Posts on this Thread.

We were lucky, I sympathise with yourself and Mike. Much easier and less expensive doing it the EEA Route. My Wife has her RC and well on her way to PR and BC.

Thanks Salem!

Glad to hear that your wife is on the way to getting sorted! We're probably gonna go with Irish citizenship (spouse of Irish national route) at 3 years in NI simply cos it's shorter...as long as I can get him the EEA FP to get into NI in the first place! Fingers crossed

Have you thought about getting your wife Irish citizenship...it might be a little quicker than waiting for the 5 years PR and then naturalizing? Just a thought...I know it's not for everyone.

All the best to you!

chaoclive wrote:Thanks Salem!

Glad to hear that your wife is on the way to getting sorted! We're probably gonna go with Irish citizenship (spouse of Irish national route) at 3 years in NI simply cos it's shorter...as long as I can get him the EEA FP to get into NI in the first place! Fingers crossed

Have you thought about getting your wife Irish citizenship...it might be a little quicker than waiting for the 5 years PR and then naturalizing? Just a thought...I know it's not for everyone.

All the best to you!

Thanks chaoclive.

We actually live in London, where I have lived for quite a while, although I was born and reared in Northern Ireland.

We come back 'home' for Xmas etc, but that's really it.

Jambo wrote -

I slightly disagree. NI is a unique situation. People born there can be Irish only, British only or dual nationals. This is determined by the actions taken by the individual. So if you never applied for British passport, only Irish one and identified yourself as such, you will not be considered British. If you held British passport in the past but not anymore, you have identified yourself as British in the past, so you are still British.

Hi Jambo, most NI born people whose parents are lawfully settled in NI are automatically British at birth without the individual or parent needing to take any steps whatsoever. On the other hand the individual (or their parent on their behalf) must take a 'positive step that only an Irish person can do' in order to acquire Irish nationality, mere birth in NI is not enough to automatically trigger the possession of Irish nationality (unless one of your parents was born in the Republic of Ireland, or on the island of Ireland before partition in 1922, those cases few and the latter example now rare!!). There is a whole history to the wording of past and present Irish nationality law which eventually makes sense should you want to delve into it!

Kind regards

I just admit I was not aware of the 2012 McCarthy Ruling and I'm a little peeved.

I was born in N.Ireland, lived there all my life but do not have any known Irish ancestors. I had a UK Passport solely until 2005 when I decided to go travelling. I really wanted a spare UK Passport but they only issue 2 in special circumstance. I was advised to apply for an Irish Passport. I didn't even know I was eligible. Sent off application along with my Northern Irish Birth Cert. Few weeks later I have both Passports.
A few years later. When my travelling had got as far as Thailand and I met a lovely girl, I also started thinking about this loophole. Where I could claim to be an Irish Citizen living in the UK (arguably this is true) and excercising my Treaty Rights. As a kind of backdoor to avoid all the ridiculous hoops the UK Authorities make us jump through to allow our non-EEA Spouses to live/work/travel freely.
So yes, I'm a bit miffed I've just found this Ruling closing that very loophole.

However, at the moment it doesn't affect us. We tried a few times to get a Tourist Visa for Germany (where I was living at the time and indeed still am). They bounced us on 3 occasions and in the end we decided to make my then Girlfriend's family very happy by having a village wedding (ceremonial) and also officially (legally) marry in Bang Rak District Bangkok.
Once we were married and had all the official documents translated into German and English (English for our records). We applied again, this time for an EEA Family Permit. Of course they could not deny us now without affecting my Treaty Right to work in Germany. It was duly granted and we traveled to Germany. Landed no problem.

We took one trip by air to Italy a few weeks later. No issue at all with Italian authorities entering or leaving. I think about 6 weeks after first entering Germany we visited the "Auslanderamt" in our local Town Hall in Cologne to apply for a Residence Card. I brought every possible piece of paperwork related to our Relationship. A habit I learned in Thailand, dealing with Bureaucracy there. 5 year Residence Card was granted and created there and then. The cost? 10 cents. Because I had forgotten to make a copy my "permission to work" certificate, also from the Auslanderamt (this is now no longer required). So I had to use the public photocopier in the foyer.
Nearly 4 years later we're still living in Cologne. Wife is working and we are setting her up in her own business soon. We have a beautiful Daughter who is 2.5 yrs old. She holds both UK and Thai Passports (she was born in a Thai Hospital). She could probably get an Irish Passport too. I must look into that.

To travel back to the UK we have always applied for an EEA Family Permit. But this is getting to be a right pain. The waiting times even for the "express" €120 service are sporadic. Sometimes 10 days, sometimes 8 weeks!
Do you think it is possible for my Wife and Daughter to travel back to Ireland (Dublin) without me and using just the Wife's Thai Passport, German Residence Card and Daughter's UK Passport?
Can my Wife enter on the grounds she is escorting our Child? The Residence Card allows Freedom of Movement in the EU. That's printed on it in German. Along with "Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen"

BTW a big "'Bout Yee!" to all my fellow countrymen. We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland!

Kolner_Mike wrote:BTW a big "'Bout Yee!" to all my fellow countrymen. We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland!

I believe 'stickin out big lad' is the appropriate response!

Kolner_Mike wrote:I just admit I was not aware of the 2012 McCarthy Ruling and I'm a little peeved.

To travel back to the UK we have always applied for an EEA Family Permit. But this is getting to be a right pain. The waiting times even for the "express" €120 service are sporadic. Sometimes 10 days, sometimes 8 weeks!
Do you think it is possible for my Wife and Daughter to travel back to Ireland (Dublin) without me and using just the Wife's Thai Passport, German Residence Card and Daughter's UK Passport?
Can my Wife enter on the grounds she is escorting our Child? The Residence Card allows Freedom of Movement in the EU. That's printed on it in German. Along with "Residence Card of a Family Member of a Union Citizen"

Bout Yee big lad!

Mate, as far as I'm aware, your Wife can travel freely in the EU only if the EU National (you) are travelling with her. I'm not sure what difference, if any, the child would make. I think none to be honest, but not sure.

I've been to a few EU countries with my Thai wife, and the only stipulation was that she must be travelling with me. This I got in writing from both VFS and Spanish Consulate.

Oh, and...... 'but it's all the same to us, ULSTER!!!'