BREXIT-- Threat or Opportunity

If the government intends to negotiate access to the single market after Brexit, nobody will be getting deported

Perhaps this post would be more relevant merged into this thread?

Let's keep this forum for discussion of individual cases and the forum for discussion of the EU Referendum for broader discussions of the outcome of the Referendum.

secret.simon wrote:Perhaps this post would be more relevant merged into this thread?

Let's keep this forum for discussion of individual cases and the forum for discussion of the EU Referendum for broader discussions of the outcome of the Referendum.

I am pleased that you now agree to this course.

Obie wrote:I am pleased that you now agree to this course.

I always did, since this forum was created. I only discussed Brexit in the other forum if it was relevant to the specific individual case being discussed.

I am gratified that we are in agreement

A must watch video of Nigel Farage stating the reason behind his so called revolution & resignation.



He f***ed up a perfectly running system to fulfil a dream which neither means anything for the people/country nor even for those idiots who blindly & deafly followed another blind & deaf (who couldn't see & hear anything except for his dream & his own voice).
Today after leaving the entire nation, people, EU & global economy in such a mess; this man has an audacity to walk away from the entire scene stating that he wants his life back. What about us?

People like him have misguided & misled everyone whilst letting everyone down.

EVEN UKIP suppor ted candidate Andrea Leadsom thinks EU citizens should stay and not be used as bargaining chip .

HRH wrote:A must watch video of Nigel Farage stating the reason behind his so called revolution & resignation.



He f***ed up a perfectly running system to fulfil a dream which neither means anything for the people/country nor even for those idiots who blindly & deafly followed another blind & deaf (who couldn't see & hear anything except for his dream & his own voice).
Today after leaving the entire nation, people, EU & global economy in such a mess; this man has an audacity to walk away from the entire scene stating that he wants his life back. What about us?

People like him have misguided & misled everyone whilst letting everyone down.

I have edited your post to make it compatible with forum rules.

As rabid and nasty a peron Farage is, I don't believe the analogy you presented is appropriate. I have therefore edited it.

He may hAve brought the UK to it knees, but I believe deep down he may hold the believe that he was doing the right thing.

Interesting discussion on TV in the early hours of this morning.
They had a male Brexiter;
a very overpowereing, talking over everyone, old Remain female;
a very old Frenchman who was angry, shouting and waving his arms around,
a young, clam, educated, German woman.

When the German woman could get a word in over the angry old frenchman waving his arms around and shouting and the overtalking woman, it was very interesting to hear what she said.

They all agreed the UK would not have another vote. But she gave the view in Germany about Brexit and said they blaimed Brexit on Merkel. For not changing free movement that most countries have been complaining about for years, for not sorting out why most countries were fed up with the way EU was going and for the migrant crisis. She talked of how Germans wanted to keep the UK in some form and would be happy (also wanted) to change free movement rules. Three of them agreed that the EU can't go the way it is with so many countries fed up with it was, while the old frenchman seemed too angry to answer that or didn't want to go against what the German woman said on this.

Obie wrote:

HRH wrote:A must watch video of Nigel Farage stating the reason behind his so called revolution & resignation.



He f***ed up a perfectly running system to fulfil a dream which neither means anything for the people/country nor even for those idiots who blindly & deafly followed another blind & deaf (who couldn't see & hear anything except for his dream & his own voice).
Today after leaving the entire nation, people, EU & global economy in such a mess; this man has an audacity to walk away from the entire scene stating that he wants his life back. What about us?

People like him have misguided & misled everyone whilst letting everyone down.

I have edited your post to make it compatible with forum rules.

As rabid and nasty a peron Farage is, I don't believe the analogy you presented is appropriate. I have therefore edited it.

He may hAve brought the UK to it knees, but I believe deep down he may hold the believe that he was doing the right thing.

Obie. Thanks for editing it. Even I thought after posting that my post could have offended some people, but it won't allow me to edit. I am no one to judge Farage as a person, hence I mentioned the fact that he has screwed everyone just to fulfil his dream.
Now you can see why I used that analogy. Whilst I agree that I used a very sensitive example, I strongly believe that there is a high degree of similarty between two of them when it comes to the realisation of dream (which is not useful to anyone) at the cost of ruining everything.
I really hope whatever he did was under impression/ illusion of doing the right thing. Nevertheless damage is already done.

Petaltop wrote:Interesting discussion on TV in the early hours of this morning.
They had a male Brexiter;
a very overpowereing, talking over everyone, old Remain female;
a very old Frenchman who was angry, shouting and waving his arms around,
a young, clam, educated, German woman.

Was it Dateline London? If so, your description of the participants is quite interesting.

The Remain participant is the (literally and metaphorically) outspoken Polly Toynbee of the Guardian.

The French journalist has been on a few of the Dateline London programmes lately.

The German journalist this week and the Irish journalist the week before last were more understanding of the Brexit point of view. Indeed, the Irish journalist spelt out a more coherent case for Brexit than the Brexiteer on that week's programme.

I am reminded of Brexiters and their perceptions during an episode of 'Peep Show'....

"Mark: I'm going to go to bed.

Jeremy: You're not going anywhere Mark, you can't say you're going to bed at 9 in the evening. You're going to sit there and smile, and talk about something funny you've seen on reality TV. And stop going on and on about the Euro, we're in it now and there's nothing you can do about it!

Mark: We are not in the Euro, Jeremy! So you can have your squalid little night, I'm going to read Roy Jenkins on Winston Churchill."

secret.simon wrote: Was it Dateline London? If so, your description of the participants is quite interesting.

I don't know as it was just background noise, and noise it was with the shouty elderly Frenchman and overtalking old woman.

secret.simon wrote:The Remain participant is the (literally and metaphorically) outspoken Polly Toynbee of the Guardian.

Shudder. I just googled the name and that is the one. She seems to like the sound of her own voice.

secret.simon wrote:The French journalist has been on a few of the Dateline London programmes lately.

Why? All he shouts is the same thing over and over again. "Retirement home" is what i thought of after a while.

secret.simon wrote:

Petaltop wrote:Interesting discussion on TV in the early hours of this morning.
They had a male Brexiter;
a very overpowereing, talking over everyone, old Remain female;
a very old Frenchman who was angry, shouting and waving his arms around,
a young, clam, educated, German woman.

Was it Dateline London? If so, your description of the participants is quite interesting.

The Remain participant is the (literally and metaphorically) outspoken Polly Toynbee of the Guardian.

The French journalist has been on a few of the Dateline London programmes lately.

The German journalist this week and the Irish journalist the week before last were more understanding of the Brexit point of view. Indeed, the Irish journalist spelt out a more coherent case for Brexit than the Brexiteer on that week's programme.

Ya it was repeat telecast of Dateline London which they aired couple of days ago.

Into the long grass? A German newspaper thinks that London is not expected to trigger Article 50 till after the German elections in August 2017.

Deutsche Welle - EU Parliament mulls bloc's post-Brexit future

However, the European Commission does not expect London to formally apply to leave the bloc until September 2017, German newspaper "Handelsblatt" reported, citing sources at the EU's executive body.

"If a British politician triggers Article 50, they will do so after the elections in France and Germany," one source told "WirtshaftsWoche," a sister publication of "Handelsblatt."

And in the meanwhile, we have a rerun of the second round of the presidential elections in Austria between a far-right and a centrist candidate most likely on October 2nd this year, referendums in Hungary on EU migrant relocation policy (October 2nd) and in Italy on internal constitutional reforms (also in October), but where the Prime Minster has announced he will stand down if he loses.

What will the impact of the Brexit vote be on these referendums/elections? Will it cause a rush to safety as it is supposed to have done in the Spanish elections, just three days after the Brexit vote? Or will it embolden parties that want to weaken the European Union?

Here are a couple of interesting reads.

http://www.cityam.com/244780/britain-no ... um=twitter

https://www.linkedin.com/hp/update/6156079006367113216

HRH wrote:http://www.cityam.com/244780/britain-no ... um=twitter

I agree with the analysis in the CityAM article. I highly doubt that Brexit will actually occur.

What is more likely to occur is that the vote in the UK will provoke similar votes elsewhere, not necessarily exits, but clearly against EU policies. The EU will have to reflect on its direction of travel and it is highly likely that there would be intense and earnest debate between the federalist instincts in Brussels and the national leaders responding to their national electorates in elections.

Even if Juncker lasts his term (unlikely), there is a good chance that the next Commission President will not be a federalist like him and may even be a Eurosceptic from the eastern A8 countries.

The EU in 2019 may be significantly different from the EU in 2016.

One of the leading brexit campaigner sadly passed away. Sad

Now we have Theresa May (Remainer) & Andrea Leadsom (Leaver). Interestingly as expected, they both are talking about exiting whilst Nicola Sturgent is bent on remaining in EU even if Scotland has to break away from GB & off course Northern Ireland which voted strongly to remain .

Perhaps that's the reason why other EU countries are speculating that UK won't be exiting after all.

There is a 2-2 draw at full time so it's unlikely we will have a Brexit because there is no clear winner.

Brexit: 325 Tory MPs fail to turn up for House of Commons vote to guarantee EU nationals the right to remain in UK.

Even UKIP only MP went. Sad.

At least we know where the Tories priority does not lies.

Abndrea Leadsom has argued for preserving the rights of EEA immigrants already here. The May camp's response is:

Daily Express wrote:Now Mrs May has accused Mrs Leadsom of guaranteeing that foreign criminals would be given the right to settle in Britain.

Her retort comes after Mrs Leadsom gave a speech on Thursday where she attempted to put pressure on Mrs May by guaranteeing the status of EU nationals in the UK - insisting she would not use people as "bargaining chips".

This does not bode well.

Watched this Panorama episode yesterday http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ain-speaks.

I have been away from UK for the past two years. I am therefore not in touch with local people except for a couple of mates. However from what I understand & the BBC is trying to show that its only the benefit seekers & pensioners who have voted to exit.

Brexiters made a point that you as a citizen you feel the pinch only when you can't get your child in the school or get medical treatment/ doctors appointment because of over stretched resources.

Whilst I agree with them on the above point I don't really agree with the mentality of those people (both citizens & immigrants) whose sole purpose of life is to live on benefits. Government dished out all the benefits & facilities it could/ had during the times when population was low & when people had some self respect. Now we don't have any resources but just the legacy which surely can't pay the benefits.

Perhaps it is the government who should be blamed for spoiling people by incentivising them for doing nothing compared to those who work hard to earn a living.

Imagine yourself & your partner working hard to earn a living, buying/ renting property on the outskirts of London; while you see someone else who perhaps hasn't paid any tax or low taxes in his life, living in a million pounds worth of mansion in ealing/ hammermith/finchley for free, whilst receiving thousands of pounds worth of benefits to meet family expenses.

Perhaps I am being over critical but why would you have a quarter or half of dozen of kids when you can't even afford to bring even a single child in this world & raise him/her on your own. Is this all about getting bigger allowance & house?

There is nothing wrong in providing benefits to those who desperately need rather than who choose to. Benefits should be like insurance which is there to pay for your losses by putting back in the condition where you were before the event rather than making you better off & you wanting to claim more & more to gain things without working.

People like me have no personal grudges against the EU migrants but we feel cheated specially when we see that even their non eu extended family is welcomed in UK while our immediate isn't.
Whilst some of you would think that its an irrelevant post, I find it relevant to this context as this is the benefits & resources & government policies which is causing all this division.

HRH wrote:
Whilst I agree with them on the above point I don't really agree with the mentality of those people (both citizens & immigrants) whose sole purpose of life is to live on benefits. Government dished out all the benefits & facilities it could/ had during the times when population was low & when people had some self respect. Now we don't have any resources but just the legacy which surely can't pay the benefits.

Don't worry, the benefits Blair brought in for the lazy as a "vote winner", Tax Credits and Pension Credit, are ending. When MAC reported in 2014 on the Tax Credits welfare payment annual bill, that billions of pounds, a staggering 40% of that total annual bill, was being claimed by "foreign borns", it was the final nail in the Tax Credits coffin.

In 2015 the UK announced their plans, that the UK will be reducing Child Tax Credits to below the benefits for children in Germany , Sweden and France. That those without children will not be able to claim Working Tax Credits under the new scheme that replaces Tax Credits and neither would most parents as they will have to work. The new system will also reduce the amount they claim in benefits for housing for their children too. It starts to come in from 2017 for exisiting claimants.

Germany is worried they might end up with these people who use free movement for better benefits and have carried a report to see how EU law can be changed, so that people only get paid benefits at the same rate as they would get in their own country.

The mood music across Europe is getting anti-migrant. Even Sweden, the exemplar of welcoming immigration, will be tightening rules for migrants.

It may become more difficult to obtain a residence permit in Sweden