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EU & Brexit Deal

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

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Wanderer
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Wanderer » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:51 pm

Salem wrote:
JAJ wrote:This negotiation between the United Kingdom and the EU will likely take months- not days or weeks.
Being reported on Monday's papers, that the EU have rejected May's 'damp squid' offer.

Just seen it on Sky's Press Review.
Damp squib......

Sorry!!!
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

Salem
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Salem » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:34 pm

Wanderer wrote:
Salem wrote:
JAJ wrote:This negotiation between the United Kingdom and the EU will likely take months- not days or weeks.
Being reported on Monday's papers, that the EU have rejected May's 'damp squid' offer.

Just seen it on Sky's Press Review.
Damp squib......

Sorry!!!
Indeed!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 32246.html

Salem
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Salem » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:30 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40579769

The EU's top Brexit negotiator has said there are still major differences between the EU and UK on the rights of EU citizens living in Britain.
"The British position does not allow those persons concerned to continue to live their lives as they do today," Michel Barnier said.
Mr Barnier said the European Court of Justice (ECJ) must have jurisdiction to guarantee citizens' rights.
He also said it was essential that the UK recognise its financial obligations.
If Britain did not accept it had some financial obligations, there would be no basis to discuss other issues, he said.
Ahead of the second round of talks next week, Mr Barnier said the EU had made its stance on the issues clear and was waiting on Britain to do the same.
"Our team is ready," he said. " I'm ready. I'm very prepared and willing to work on this very quickly - night and day, the weekend."
"We want EU citizens in Britain to have the same rights as British citizens who live in the EU," he told a news conference.
That would require the ECJ to be the "ultimate guarantor" of those rights, he said, because Britain could simply change its laws later, creating uncertainty.
UK law also imposes restrictions in areas such as reuniting families across borders, he said - something which was not applied to UK citizens living in Spain, for example.

Analysis: Charm and menace
Adam Fleming, BBC News, Brussels
Michel Barnier's message to the UK was: it's time to get a move on, to provide more clarity about the British position on a range of issues.
"As soon as possible," was his request, with the EU's chief negotiator joking that he was willing to work over the weekend and on Friday, which is a bank holiday in his native France.
The biggest sticking point appears to be the EU's insistence that Britain settles its outstanding financial obligations. Asked about Boris Johnson's suggestion on Tuesday that the EU could "go whistle", he joked that the only sound he could hear was a clock ticking.
There was copious evidence of the Barnier charm - but he was happy to turn on the menace, repeating several times that the UK would have to face the "consequences" of its choice to depart the EU.
Trying to sound eminently reasonable, he denied that his demand for a financial payment was a "ransom" or a "punishment."

Mr Barnier also said that those rights - along with the "divorce payment" and border issues - must be dealt with before future UK-EU trade could be discussed.
The financial payment the EU says will be owed to cover the UK's commitments is also a key point for Mr Barnier. Estimates have put the amount at anywhere from €60bn to €100bn (£53-89bn).
Asked about UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson's comment that the EU could "go whistle" over the demand, Mr Barnier replied: "I'm not hearing any whistling. Just the clock ticking."

Boris Johnson's message to the EU: "Go whistle seems to me to be an entirely appropriate expression"
He denied that the EU was holding the UK government to ransom, and said it was simply a matter of "trust".
"It is not an exit bill, it is not a ransom - we won't ask for anything else than what the UK has committed to as a member," he said.
Mr Barnier also announced he would meet other key politicians on Thursday who were not part of Theresa May's government - including opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn, representatives from the House of Lords, and the first ministers of Scotland and Wales.
"I have always made clear that I will listen to different points on view in the British debate," he said.
"Of course, I will only negotiate with the UK government," he added.

rooibos
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by rooibos » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:00 pm

There will be NO Brexit deal as long as TM remains in power. The so called Brexit negotiators know that. The Tories know that. We all know that. The clock is ticking. My feeling is that the powers that be in the Tory dressroom (Boris, Gove) want to keep TM in power because nobody wants to be destroyed by the EU negotiators! The Tories would gladly sacrifice the 1.2M Britons living in the EU if that meant keeping their jobs as MPs.

softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:17 am

Brexit: UK-EU freedom of movement 'to end in March 2019'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40734504
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357mag
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by 357mag » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:08 pm

That may well be what the UK government want softy, but nothing has been agreed by the EU. We have seen lots of this will happen or that will happen only for the EU to say nope you can't do that.

If that's the date then it's good for me and my plans but nothing is written in stone yet.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

357mag
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by 357mag » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:23 pm

Ha ha the wording changes as I sit here, it was indicating the door would slam shut on the specified date but now it's changed to EU migrants will have to "register" until the deal is finalised.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:28 pm

357mag wrote:Ha ha the wording changes as I sit here, it was indicating the door would slam shut on the specified date but now it's changed to EU migrants will have to "register" until the deal is finalised.
changed this afternoon when i refreshed my BBC website page! 3 hrs ago basically
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softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:10 am

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JAJ
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by JAJ » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:24 am

A post-2019 agreement along the lines of what the EU already has with Switzerland would end free movement in its current legal form while replacing it with something that is effectively the same. Mandatory registration isn't necessarily a bad thing- a lot of the current problems with EEA citizens proving residence/activity for the purpose of Permanent Resident status and British citizenship would not exist if registration requirements had been in place all along.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction.

secret.simon
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by secret.simon » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:42 am

I believe that Germany and Belgium at the least also have mandatory registration already.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

dapto10
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by dapto10 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:22 am

There is registration in pretty much all other EU member states in one form or another. In some states the applicant will be issued a local ID card, in others will simply have to notify the local council / municipal administration in order to be issued a 'citizen number', or the equivalent of our NI number, in Sweden it's all related to housing, etc.

Problem here is that our government has no idea what its different departments and agencies are doing whereas on the Continent, even in the 'poor' EU member states like Romania and Bulgaria, they do have proper registration schemes for EU and foreign nationals.

357mag
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by 357mag » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:51 pm

Almost right Dapto10. In Bulgaria we are supposed to register at the local police office within 7 days, but a lot of municipalities are phasing it out many people just ignore it. It's so easy to get a longterm residence card within a week so to register with the police seems redundant.

Nothing against registration of whos in the country. Standardisation of documents across the EU should have made it easy to swipe the card at the airport and you are automatically in the system, its not rocket science just using available technology. Just look at how many cars in the UK, probably as many as there are people, and every police patrol car can enter a number and see the full details from the day it was first registered.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:01 pm

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mkhan2525
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by mkhan2525 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:45 pm

The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.

JAJ
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by JAJ » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:17 am

mkhan2525 wrote:The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.
The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction.

Richard W
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Richard W » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:38 am

JAJ wrote:Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
And note the "generally" - dual nationality is incompatible with employment in MI6! (GCHQ allows it, though.)

Salem
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Salem » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:54 am

JAJ wrote:The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
Yes, I applied for my daughter's Irish Passport last month, after your advice earlier in the thread. They contacted me yesterday about a small mistake I made on the form (re payment) but confirmed she is eligible, and is being processed accordingly, she will have it by the end of this month.

Thanks!

mkhan2525
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by mkhan2525 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:10 pm

JAJ wrote:
mkhan2525 wrote:The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.
The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
Well if we adopt a Switzerland type of deal then free movement will continue so nothing changes. This would not be what most British people voted for.

The fact remains that most British people do not see freedom of movement beyond that of being able to travel to EU countries for tourism purposed without having hurdles like applying for visas etc. Therefore as you said it is worthwhile for those who can obtain another passport to do so.

Obie
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Obie » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:15 pm

If you add the proportion of people who voted remain and those leave voter who votes for reason's other than immigration, it is not accurate to say that most British people voted to end freemovement. It is likely the most leave voters voted for that purpose , but clearly it cannot be said that most British people did
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:23 pm

Citizens’ rights update

This is an update at the conclusion of the fourth round of negotiations between the UK and EU in Brussels this week.

Throughout the negotiation, the UK Government is remaining focused on providing certainty, clarity and stability for EU citizens living in the UK and UK citizens living in the EU, upholding the proposals set out in June.

This month’s round made progress on issues which will enable EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU to continue to live their lives broadly as they do now. This progress is detailed in the joint summary note published yesterday. Notably, good progress was made on protecting social security rights, which will provide EU citizens and UK nationals with more financial security.

The UK thinks that in some cases we must go beyond the strict requirements of current EU law in order to protect citizens. For example the UK Government has offered guaranteed rights of return for settled EU citizens in the UK who leave the UK, in return for onward movement rights for UK nationals living in the EU27.

If the EU agrees to this, it would mean that as an EU citizen with settled status you could leave the UK for more than two years without your status being affected. In return, as a UK national living in the EU, you would be able to move within the other Member States, as now. This is a bold and important offer which we hope the EU will consider carefully.

Regarding the enforcement of citizens’ rights after we leave the EU, the UK has been clear that, as a third country outside of the EU, it would not be right for the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to have direct jurisdiction. However, we have listened to the concerns that have been raised and - as the Prime Minister set out in her speech in Florence last week - the UK has committed to incorporating the final withdrawal agreement fully into UK law and said that UK courts should be able to take account of CJEU judgments in order to ensure consistent interpretation.

After four negotiation rounds we are starting to get into the detail of how EU citizens will apply for a new settled status. The UK presented its early thinking and we will be engaging on the design and delivery of a proposed Settlement Scheme for EU citizens in the UK. We are committed to making the application as streamlined and user-friendly as possible for everyone. Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example. We will also use data that EU citizens have already provided to minimise the burden of documentary evidence required.

There will be more details in the coming months, but for the time being EU citizens need not take any action.

The next round of negotiations is due to take place during the week beginning 9 October
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fatimahh
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by fatimahh » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm

Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?
GOD BLESS!!!

softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:33 pm

fatimahh wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm
Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?
I think whoever hold PR will have to apply for a new settled status as far as i know!
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Richard W
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Richard W » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:54 pm

fatimahh wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm
Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?
There's no reason why they can't use a simpler process - the qualification for PR will already have been demonstrated. The problem id whether they will be eligible. A restrictive reading suggest they are not. Under the British rules, one loses the retained right of residence once one obtains permanent residence.

fatimahh
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by fatimahh » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:09 am

There's no reason why they can't use a simpler process - the qualification for PR will already have been demonstrated. The problem id whether they will be eligible. A restrictive reading suggest they are not. Under the British rules, one loses the retained right of residence once one obtains permanent residence.

If i understand your point - once you have PR even if divorced you may benefit from the simpler process like an European with PR. However if you only have ROR, you may loose your right to reside.

thank you for sharing your view
GOD BLESS!!!

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