EU & Brexit Deal

357mag · Post by **357mag** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:08 pm

That may well be what the UK government want softy, but nothing has been agreed by the EU. We have seen lots of this will happen or that will happen only for the EU to say nope you can't do that.

If that's the date then it's good for me and my plans but nothing is written in stone yet.

357mag · Post by **357mag** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:23 pm

Ha ha the wording changes as I sit here, it was indicating the door would slam shut on the specified date but now it's changed to EU migrants will have to "register" until the deal is finalised.

softy monster · Post by **softy monster** » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:28 pm

357mag wrote:Ha ha the wording changes as I sit here, it was indicating the door would slam shut on the specified date but now it's changed to EU migrants will have to "register" until the deal is finalised.

changed this afternoon when i refreshed my BBC website page! 3 hrs ago basically

softy monster · Post by **softy monster** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ndon-lewis

Post by **JAJ** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:24 pm

A post-2019 agreement along the lines of what the EU already has with Switzerland would end free movement in its current legal form while replacing it with something that is effectively the same. Mandatory registration isn't necessarily a bad thing- a lot of the current problems with EEA citizens proving residence/activity for the purpose of Permanent Resident status and British citizenship would not exist if registration requirements had been in place all along.

Post by **secret.simon** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:42 pm

I believe that Germany and Belgium at the least also have mandatory registration already.

dapto10 · Post by **dapto10** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:22 am

There is registration in pretty much all other EU member states in one form or another. In some states the applicant will be issued a local ID card, in others will simply have to notify the local council / municipal administration in order to be issued a 'citizen number', or the equivalent of our NI number, in Sweden it's all related to housing, etc.

Problem here is that our government has no idea what its different departments and agencies are doing whereas on the Continent, even in the 'poor' EU member states like Romania and Bulgaria, they do have proper registration schemes for EU and foreign nationals.

357mag · Post by **357mag** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:51 pm

Almost right Dapto10. In Bulgaria we are supposed to register at the local police office within 7 days, but a lot of municipalities are phasing it out many people just ignore it. It's so easy to get a longterm residence card within a week so to register with the police seems redundant.

Nothing against registration of whos in the country. Standardisation of documents across the EU should have made it easy to swipe the card at the airport and you are automatically in the system, its not rocket science just using available technology. Just look at how many cars in the UK, probably as many as there are people, and every police patrol car can enter a number and see the full details from the day it was first registered.

softy monster · Post by **softy monster** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:01 pm

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/br ... ailsignout

mkhan2525 · Post by **mkhan2525** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:45 pm

softy monster wrote:http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/br ... ailsignout

The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.

Post by **JAJ** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:17 am

mkhan2525 wrote:The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.

The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.

Richard W · Post by **Richard W** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:38 am

JAJ wrote:Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.

And note the "generally" - dual nationality is incompatible with employment in MI6! (GCHQ allows it, though.)

Salem · Post by **Salem** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:54 am

JAJ wrote:The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.

Yes, I applied for my daughter's Irish Passport last month, after your advice earlier in the thread. They contacted me yesterday about a small mistake I made on the form (re payment) but confirmed she is eligible, and is being processed accordingly, she will have it by the end of this month.

Thanks!

mkhan2525 · Post by **mkhan2525** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:10 pm

JAJ wrote:
mkhan2525 wrote:The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.
The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.

Well if we adopt a Switzerland type of deal then free movement will continue so nothing changes. This would not be what most British people voted for.

The fact remains that most British people do not see freedom of movement beyond that of being able to travel to EU countries for tourism purposed without having hurdles like applying for visas etc. Therefore as you said it is worthwhile for those who can obtain another passport to do so.

Post by **Obie** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:15 pm

If you add the proportion of people who voted remain and those leave voter who votes for reason's other than immigration, it is not accurate to say that most British people voted to end freemovement. It is likely the most leave voters voted for that purpose , but clearly it cannot be said that most British people did

softy monster · Post by **softy monster** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:23 pm

Citizens’ rights update

This is an update at the conclusion of the fourth round of negotiations between the UK and EU in Brussels this week.

Throughout the negotiation, the UK Government is remaining focused on providing certainty, clarity and stability for EU citizens living in the UK and UK citizens living in the EU, upholding the proposals set out in June.

This month’s round made progress on issues which will enable EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU to continue to live their lives broadly as they do now. This progress is detailed in the joint summary note published yesterday. Notably, good progress was made on protecting social security rights, which will provide EU citizens and UK nationals with more financial security.

The UK thinks that in some cases we must go beyond the strict requirements of current EU law in order to protect citizens. For example the UK Government has offered guaranteed rights of return for settled EU citizens in the UK who leave the UK, in return for onward movement rights for UK nationals living in the EU27.

If the EU agrees to this, it would mean that as an EU citizen with settled status you could leave the UK for more than two years without your status being affected. In return, as a UK national living in the EU, you would be able to move within the other Member States, as now. This is a bold and important offer which we hope the EU will consider carefully.

Regarding the enforcement of citizens’ rights after we leave the EU, the UK has been clear that, as a third country outside of the EU, it would not be right for the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to have direct jurisdiction. However, we have listened to the concerns that have been raised and - as the Prime Minister set out in her speech in Florence last week - the UK has committed to incorporating the final withdrawal agreement fully into UK law and said that UK courts should be able to take account of CJEU judgments in order to ensure consistent interpretation.

After four negotiation rounds we are starting to get into the detail of how EU citizens will apply for a new settled status. The UK presented its early thinking and we will be engaging on the design and delivery of a proposed Settlement Scheme for EU citizens in the UK. We are committed to making the application as streamlined and user-friendly as possible for everyone. Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example. We will also use data that EU citizens have already provided to minimise the burden of documentary evidence required.

There will be more details in the coming months, but for the time being EU citizens need not take any action.

The next round of negotiations is due to take place during the week beginning 9 October

fatimahh · Post by **fatimahh** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.

Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?

softy monster · Post by **softy monster** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:33 pm

fatimahh wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?

I think whoever hold PR will have to apply for a new settled status as far as i know!

Richard W · Post by **Richard W** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:54 pm

fatimahh wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?

There's no reason why they can't use a simpler process - the qualification for PR will already have been demonstrated. The problem id whether they will be eligible. A restrictive reading suggest they are not. Under the British rules, one loses the retained right of residence once one obtains permanent residence.

fatimahh · Post by **fatimahh** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:09 pm

There's no reason why they can't use a simpler process - the qualification for PR will already have been demonstrated. The problem id whether they will be eligible. A restrictive reading suggest they are not. Under the British rules, one loses the retained right of residence once one obtains permanent residence.

If i understand your point - once you have PR even if divorced you may benefit from the simpler process like an European with PR. However if you only have ROR, you may loose your right to reside.

thank you for sharing your view

softy monster · Post by **softy monster** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:15 pm

The fifth round of the negotiation between the EU and UK concluded yesterday.

We are closer to agreeing all elements of the rights of EU citizens living in the UK and the reciprocal rights of UK citizens living in the EU – but there is more discussion required.

On key issues, such as the broad framework of residence rights for EU citizens and their family members, social security entitlements and reciprocal healthcare, the UK and EU have largely reached agreement.

On remaining areas, both the UK and EU are focussing on providing certainty for citizens as quickly as possible. Discussions this week have narrowed the focus to the key remaining issues for negotiations.

The UK has also provided further information on its settled status scheme to be introduced next year. It will be streamlined, digital and low cost. As we have said previously, you do not need a document now to prove that you are resident in the UK.

For those who already have EU permanent residence documents the process will be very straightforward, with greatly reduced or zero cost to applicants to update their status under the new scheme.

The talks also explored ways to fulfil the Prime Minister’s commitment to implement the Withdrawal Treaty fully into UK law, ensuring consistent interpretation through UK courts being able to take into account CJEU judgments.
(https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... and-the-eu)

We want to reach agreement on all areas as soon as we can, providing certainty for citizens.

The EU Council is meeting next week to discuss whether or not there has been sufficient progress in the current talks to move onto discussion of wider issues. Whatever the EU Council’s decision, safeguarding the status of EU citizens in the UK and UK nationals in the EU will remain a priority for the UK. As the Prime Minister said this week, “we want you to stay”.

Our negotiating position continues to be based on the proposal we outlined in June: safeguarding the position of EU citizens in the UK and UK nationals in the EU, with updates provided as the negotiations progress.

Manchester171 · Post by **Manchester171** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:50 am

The conservative party will not reach to any real deal with the EU. They are trying to shift the public opinions to support a second referendum or at least to stay in the EU until the election in 2022. After that, if the Labour party will win the election they will have to deal with the new UK out of Europe with no deal as a feather in the air. They are just wasting time and prolong it as much as they can.

On Sunday, the former Brexit minister David Jones said Britain should be prepared to suspend negotiations at this week’s European Council meeting until the EU was prepared to negotiate further on the financial settlement and begin talks on future trade terms.

Theresa May failing to inform public of 'very serious' threat of no deal Brexit

May and Davis to travel to Brussels for urgent Brexit talks

Manchester171 · Post by **Manchester171** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:06 pm

This type of news is confirming what I mentioned above about pushing the public for a second referendum. I believe the EU council have been assured by Mrs May that the two years transitional period are for changing the public opinion.

Reverse Brexit, to avoid the crippling of the British economy.

Post by **Obie** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:58 pm

Then we have David Davis complaining that there will be no transition without a deal first.

This is crazy, brexit is a total utter mess. It is unbelievable how irresponsible a government can be.

We are 17 months away from Brexit, and it is still unclear how things will go.

rooibos · Post by **rooibos** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:37 am

I've just received this email. Bold is mine.

Message to EU citizens living in the UK
The Prime Minister
hocommunications@communications.homeoffice.gov.uk
To:
Rooibos
Date:
19 October 2017, 07:08

10 Downing Street

Dear Rooibos

As I travel to Brussels today, I know that many people will be looking to us – the leaders of the 28 nations in the European Union – to demonstrate we are putting people first.

I have been clear throughout this process that citizens’ rights are my first priority. And I know my fellow leaders have the same objective: to safeguard the rights of EU nationals living in the UK and UK nationals living in the EU.

I want to give reassurance that this issue remains a priority, that we are united on the key principles, and that the focus over the weeks to come will be delivering an agreement that works for people here in the UK, and people in the EU.

When we started this process, some accused us of treating EU nationals as bargaining chips. Nothing could have been further from the truth. EU citizens who have made their lives in the UK have made a huge contribution to our country. And we want them and their families to stay. I couldn’t be clearer: EU citizens living lawfully in the UK today will be able to stay.

But this agreement will not only provide certainty about residence, but also healthcare, pensions and other benefits. It will mean that EU citizens who have paid into the UK system – and UK nationals into the system of an EU27 country – can benefit from what they’ve put in. It will enable families who have built their lives together in the EU and UK to stay together. And it will provide guarantees that the rights of those UK nationals currently living in the EU, and EU citizens currently living in the UK will not diverge over time.

What that leaves us with is a small number of important points to finalise. That is to be expected at this point in negotiations. We are in touching distance of agreement. I know both sides will consider each other's proposals for finalising the agreement with an open mind. And with flexibility and creativity on both sides, I am confident that we can conclude discussions on citizens’ rights in the coming weeks.

I know there is real anxiety about how the agreement will be implemented. People are concerned that the process will be complicated and bureaucratic, and will put up hurdles that are difficult to overcome. I want to provide reassurance here too.

We are developing a streamlined digital process for those applying for settled status in the UK in the future. This process will be designed with users in mind, and we will engage with them every step of the way. We will keep the cost as low as possible – no more than the cost of a UK passport. The criteria applied will be simple, transparent and strictly in accordance with the Withdrawal Agreement. People applying will not have to account for every trip they have taken in and out of the UK and will no longer have to demonstrate Comprehensive Sickness Insurance as they currently have to under EU rules. And importantly, for any EU citizen who holds Permanent Residence under the old scheme, there will be a simple process put in place to swap their current status for UK settled status.

To keep development of the system on track, the Government is also setting up a User Group that will include representatives of EU citizens in the UK, and digital, technical and legal experts. This group will meet regularly, ensuring the process is transparent and responds properly to users’ needs. And we recognise that British nationals living in the EU27 will be similarly concerned about potential changes to processes after the UK leaves the EU. We have repeatedly flagged these issues during the negotiations. And we are keen to work closely with EU Member States to ensure their processes are equally streamlined.

We want people to stay and we want families to stay together. We hugely value the contributions that EU nationals make to the economic, social and cultural fabric of the UK. And I know that Member States value equally UK nationals living in their communities. I hope that these reassurances, alongside those made by both the UK and the European Commission last week, will provide further helpful certainty to the four million people who were understandably anxious about what Brexit would mean for their futures.

Yours sincerely

Theresa May, Prime Minister

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Message to EU citizens living in the UK