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EU & Brexit Deal

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba88, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator, sbrennan

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357mag
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Location: Bulgaria
Bulgaria

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by 357mag » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:08 pm

That may well be what the UK government want softy, but nothing has been agreed by the EU. We have seen lots of this will happen or that will happen only for the EU to say nope you can't do that.

If that's the date then it's good for me and my plans but nothing is written in stone yet.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

357mag
Member of Standing
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Location: Bulgaria
Bulgaria

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by 357mag » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:23 pm

Ha ha the wording changes as I sit here, it was indicating the door would slam shut on the specified date but now it's changed to EU migrants will have to "register" until the deal is finalised.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

softy monster
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Location: Jungle
Algeria

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:28 pm

357mag wrote:Ha ha the wording changes as I sit here, it was indicating the door would slam shut on the specified date but now it's changed to EU migrants will have to "register" until the deal is finalised.
changed this afternoon when i refreshed my BBC website page! 3 hrs ago basically
Non-EEA (McCarthy Transitional Arrangement case)
PR card rec/dated:28 April

softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:10 am

Non-EEA (McCarthy Transitional Arrangement case)
PR card rec/dated:28 April

JAJ
Moderator
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Australia

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by JAJ » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:24 am

A post-2019 agreement along the lines of what the EU already has with Switzerland would end free movement in its current legal form while replacing it with something that is effectively the same. Mandatory registration isn't necessarily a bad thing- a lot of the current problems with EEA citizens proving residence/activity for the purpose of Permanent Resident status and British citizenship would not exist if registration requirements had been in place all along.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction.

secret.simon
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by secret.simon » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:42 am

I believe that Germany and Belgium at the least also have mandatory registration already.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice. Being a Respected Guru does not mean I know more, it just means I can google better. Google knows it all.

dapto10
Junior Member
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Great Britain

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by dapto10 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:22 am

There is registration in pretty much all other EU member states in one form or another. In some states the applicant will be issued a local ID card, in others will simply have to notify the local council / municipal administration in order to be issued a 'citizen number', or the equivalent of our NI number, in Sweden it's all related to housing, etc.

Problem here is that our government has no idea what its different departments and agencies are doing whereas on the Continent, even in the 'poor' EU member states like Romania and Bulgaria, they do have proper registration schemes for EU and foreign nationals.

357mag
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by 357mag » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:51 pm

Almost right Dapto10. In Bulgaria we are supposed to register at the local police office within 7 days, but a lot of municipalities are phasing it out many people just ignore it. It's so easy to get a longterm residence card within a week so to register with the police seems redundant.

Nothing against registration of whos in the country. Standardisation of documents across the EU should have made it easy to swipe the card at the airport and you are automatically in the system, its not rocket science just using available technology. Just look at how many cars in the UK, probably as many as there are people, and every police patrol car can enter a number and see the full details from the day it was first registered.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

softy monster
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:01 pm

Non-EEA (McCarthy Transitional Arrangement case)
PR card rec/dated:28 April

mkhan2525
Member
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Great Britain

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by mkhan2525 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:45 pm

The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.

JAJ
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Australia

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by JAJ » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:17 am

mkhan2525 wrote:The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.
The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction.

Richard W
- thin ice -
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Georgia

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Richard W » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:38 am

JAJ wrote:Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
And note the "generally" - dual nationality is incompatible with employment in MI6! (GCHQ allows it, though.)
A single cross of St. George would be better.

Salem
- thin ice -
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Salem » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:54 am

JAJ wrote:The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
Yes, I applied for my daughter's Irish Passport last month, after your advice earlier in the thread. They contacted me yesterday about a small mistake I made on the form (re payment) but confirmed she is eligible, and is being processed accordingly, she will have it by the end of this month.

Thanks!

mkhan2525
Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:27 pm
Great Britain

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by mkhan2525 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:10 pm

JAJ wrote:
mkhan2525 wrote:The majority of the British people applying for alternative passports are seeking to travel visa free to continental Europe for holdiay purposes rather than actually going to live there. Many people I have spoken to are worried about this.

I believe there will be some deal done with the EU to allow British passport holders visa free travel for tourism purposes after Brexit if we don't remain in the EEA.
The chances of visas being required for tourist purposes are close to zero. The United Kingdom does not require tourist visas from citizens of countries as diverse as South Korea, Botswana and Argentina today- it's hard to see how EU nations could remain anything other than visa free for tourist purposes even in the most acrimonious of EU-exit scenarios. That said, visa free tourist entry isn't quite the same as what prevails between Britain and the EU today- administrative formalities could increase (electronic travel authorisation, different passport queues) and in most countries with visa free tourist entry, a small percentage of arrivals are refused.

Opinion only- the most likely scenario on movement of people- at least for the immediate period post March 2019- is something resembling the arrangements between the EU and Switzerland. Nevertheless, it generally makes sense for anyone entitled to another EU citizenship (and vice versa for British citizenship) to claim it in advance of any law/policy changes.
Well if we adopt a Switzerland type of deal then free movement will continue so nothing changes. This would not be what most British people voted for.

The fact remains that most British people do not see freedom of movement beyond that of being able to travel to EU countries for tourism purposed without having hurdles like applying for visas etc. Therefore as you said it is worthwhile for those who can obtain another passport to do so.

Obie
Moderator
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Obie » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:15 pm

If you add the proportion of people who voted remain and those leave voter who votes for reason's other than immigration, it is not accurate to say that most British people voted to end freemovement. It is likely the most leave voters voted for that purpose , but clearly it cannot be said that most British people did
When you have an opportunity to encourage someone, do it. You never know what a person is going through - that’s true whether they live in a mansion or a mud hut

softy monster
Member
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Location: Jungle
Algeria

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:23 pm

Citizens’ rights update

This is an update at the conclusion of the fourth round of negotiations between the UK and EU in Brussels this week.

Throughout the negotiation, the UK Government is remaining focused on providing certainty, clarity and stability for EU citizens living in the UK and UK citizens living in the EU, upholding the proposals set out in June.

This month’s round made progress on issues which will enable EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU to continue to live their lives broadly as they do now. This progress is detailed in the joint summary note published yesterday. Notably, good progress was made on protecting social security rights, which will provide EU citizens and UK nationals with more financial security.

The UK thinks that in some cases we must go beyond the strict requirements of current EU law in order to protect citizens. For example the UK Government has offered guaranteed rights of return for settled EU citizens in the UK who leave the UK, in return for onward movement rights for UK nationals living in the EU27.

If the EU agrees to this, it would mean that as an EU citizen with settled status you could leave the UK for more than two years without your status being affected. In return, as a UK national living in the EU, you would be able to move within the other Member States, as now. This is a bold and important offer which we hope the EU will consider carefully.

Regarding the enforcement of citizens’ rights after we leave the EU, the UK has been clear that, as a third country outside of the EU, it would not be right for the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) to have direct jurisdiction. However, we have listened to the concerns that have been raised and - as the Prime Minister set out in her speech in Florence last week - the UK has committed to incorporating the final withdrawal agreement fully into UK law and said that UK courts should be able to take account of CJEU judgments in order to ensure consistent interpretation.

After four negotiation rounds we are starting to get into the detail of how EU citizens will apply for a new settled status. The UK presented its early thinking and we will be engaging on the design and delivery of a proposed Settlement Scheme for EU citizens in the UK. We are committed to making the application as streamlined and user-friendly as possible for everyone. Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example. We will also use data that EU citizens have already provided to minimise the burden of documentary evidence required.

There will be more details in the coming months, but for the time being EU citizens need not take any action.

The next round of negotiations is due to take place during the week beginning 9 October
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fatimahh
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Mood:
Guinea

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by fatimahh » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm

Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?
GOD BLESS!!!

softy monster
Member
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Location: Jungle
Algeria

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by softy monster » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:33 pm

fatimahh wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm
Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?
I think whoever hold PR will have to apply for a new settled status as far as i know!
Non-EEA (McCarthy Transitional Arrangement case)
PR card rec/dated:28 April

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1473
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Location: Stevenage
Georgia

Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Richard W » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:54 pm

fatimahh wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm
Those who already hold permanent residency documents should not have to go through the full process, for example.
Do you think that include Non EEA who retain right with PR?
There's no reason why they can't use a simpler process - the qualification for PR will already have been demonstrated. The problem id whether they will be eligible. A restrictive reading suggest they are not. Under the British rules, one loses the retained right of residence once one obtains permanent residence.
A single cross of St. George would be better.

fatimahh
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by fatimahh » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:09 am

There's no reason why they can't use a simpler process - the qualification for PR will already have been demonstrated. The problem id whether they will be eligible. A restrictive reading suggest they are not. Under the British rules, one loses the retained right of residence once one obtains permanent residence.

If i understand your point - once you have PR even if divorced you may benefit from the simpler process like an European with PR. However if you only have ROR, you may loose your right to reside.

thank you for sharing your view
GOD BLESS!!!

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