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EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

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rooibos
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EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by rooibos » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:53 am

Worrying trend among UK employers is to preempt the potential and yet undefined effect of Brexit on EU citizens by actively forcing them to justify their immigration status and putting the burden of them to prove to their employer that they will be indeed be able to stay in Britain after Brexit. See:
https://www.thehrdirector.com/features/ ... tizens-uk/
Employers
While the Government has suggested that employers do not need to do anything now, to be pro-active we would suggest that the following steps are taken:

Conduct an audit of the current workforceemployers should assess their current workforce to identify how many EU employees (and family members of EU nationals) they currently employ and to ascertain how many of those individuals can meet the current five year residency requirements. The workforce audit should also include checking the immigration status of all members of staff, the length of their service in the UK or abroad and, for EU nationals, the date on which they can apply for documents to certify their permanent residence in the UK. It would also be advisable for employers to ensure that their EU employees can provide evidence to show how long they have currently been living and working in the UK.

EU employees with at least five years residence – employers may wish to encourage those individuals to apply for a permanence residence document. These documents do not in themselves confer any rights but provide evidence that the Government has acknowledged the individual is exercising their right of residence or has acquired permanent residence. However, as confirmed by the Government, a permanent residence document only provides evidence of an EU citizen’s rights under European law and, after the UK leaves the EU, those individuals will still need to apply for a settled status document.

Consult with EU employees – employers should provide reassurance to any EU employees that their rights are protected and to explain the process required to apply for settled status. Put in place a Brexit team – depending on the number of EU employees in the business, employers may wish to put in place a Brexit team to carry out the above steps, to deal with any queries from EU employees regarding their status and to assist with applications when the online application process goes live.
I wonder if this is legal and what one can do about it.

Wanderer
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Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:53 am

It''s not discrimination it's due dilligence.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

rooibos
Member of Standing
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Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by rooibos » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:07 pm

Wanderer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:53 am
It''s not discrimination it's due dilligence.
Are you serious or are you just trolling? The HO itself has insisted that nothing changes at the moment and nothing is required from either the employees or the employers. So what would be the point of making a register or EU employees and pushing them to justifying their immigration status?

Wanderer
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Ireland

Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:42 pm

rooibos wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:07 pm
Wanderer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:53 am
It''s not discrimination it's due dilligence.
Are you serious or are you just trolling? The HO itself has insisted that nothing changes at the moment and nothing is required from either the employees or the employers. So what would be the point of making a register or EU employees and pushing them to justifying their immigration status?
As an (ex)employer I feel that too much onus is put on employers check everything and get heavily fined for not getting it right.

The onus must be on the employee to prove he/she has the right to work, where ever they are from, immigrant/EU/local - not for the employer to jump through hoops to find out.

One of the reasons I don't employ anyone now - I sub it out.....
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

rooibos
Member of Standing
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:02 pm
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by rooibos » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:59 pm

Wanderer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:42 pm
rooibos wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:07 pm
Wanderer wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:53 am
It''s not discrimination it's due dilligence.
Are you serious or are you just trolling? The HO itself has insisted that nothing changes at the moment and nothing is required from either the employees or the employers. So what would be the point of making a register or EU employees and pushing them to justifying their immigration status?
As an (ex)employer I feel that too much onus is put on employers check everything and get heavily fined for not getting it right.

The onus must be on the employee to prove he/she has the right to work, where ever they are from, immigrant/EU/local - not for the employer to jump through hoops to find out.

One of the reasons I don't employ anyone now - I sub it out.....
OK, given the context, you are definitely trolling!

Obie
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Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:34 pm

It is clearly illegal.

These people are clearly lawfully residing here, and employer has no right to ask them to apply for something which is not even in law.

There is no right to ask them to apply for residence documents. They derive their right to live here by virtue of the treaty and not domestic law or domestic residence document.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

rooibos
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Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by rooibos » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Obie wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:34 pm
It is clearly illegal.
Is there anything that can be done about it? I mean not just political pressure.

Can this be reported to some authority? Surely now some employers will have the perfect excuse to deny a job or sideline existing employees.

Obie
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Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by Obie » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:09 pm

They should simply resist any attempt to interfere with their Treaty rights.

With the wave of Europhobia engulfing England, one could hardly be surprised by these horror story.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

Richard W
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Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by Richard W » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:23 pm

The audit looks like a bad idea to me, at least as far as part-time and young Scandinavian workers are concerned. At the moment, employers can mostly just relax because they've provided the employer an allegedly permanent excuse by presenting their EEA passports. If employers start digging, they will find a few part-time employees who have no right to work via the EEA regulations because they don't have the relevant history or appropriate EEA family members and they themselves don't work long enough, and they will find a few people who have lost their Scandinavian citizenship. (Scandinavian citizenships can expire at the age of 22!) If they don't act promptly, the employers, and more particularly HR personnel, will be liable to criminal prosecution for employing people without the right to work!

There also seem to be a great many EEA family members whose sponsor no longer qualifies them to work. Inquiring as to evidence of employee's immigration status is a dangerous activity for employers. If the employee can provide the statutory excuse, the employer would be well advised to stay in blissful ignorance.

Stranded1
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Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by Stranded1 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:39 am

How come no one is talking about British citizens living in an EU country. It's time for the British government to start looking after British Citizens living in EU countries. I refuse to fill forms & apply for permits & will be returning home after Brexit. I left the country because I couldn't afford rent even with a British degree or find a decent job. I want my life & standard of living back in Britain not anywhere else.

Obie
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Re: EU employees are already being actively discriminated against

Post by Obie » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:36 am

Stranded1 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:39 am
How come no one is talking about British citizens living in an EU country. It's time for the British government to start looking after British Citizens living in EU countries. I refuse to fill forms & apply for permits & will be returning home after Brexit. I left the country because I couldn't afford rent even with a British degree or find a decent job. I want my life & standard of living back in Britain not anywhere else.
We really cannot blame that on the Europeans, we have to blame this on our compatriots who voted for brexit and imposed this very horrible plague upon us all.

Brexit is a disaster entirely of our making, and we need to take a good look at ourselves before blaming the Europeans. They have done nothing to us, it is the UK seeking to mess up their well structured system of rules and regulations.

The UK leaders have taken the step of compounding the mess of brexit, and now everyone suffers.

The EU did not seek to divorce the UK, it was the UK that sought to divorce the EU, we need to ensure that thought is at the centre rather than the periphery of our mind.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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