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EU Freedom of Movement statistics

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

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secret.simon
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EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by secret.simon » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:35 pm

Came across some very interesting statistics on freedom of movement in the EU. I'm placing them here for for the sake of completeness of information, not for taking sides.

15 million EU citizens live in another EEA country (Page 23 of the EU Citizenship Report 2017), up from 8 million in 2013 (Page 3 of EU Citizenship Report 2013).

While there are no official statistics for EU citizens in the UK, it has been estimated to be about three million EU citizens resident in the UK and about a million UK citizens resident in the EU.

So, at least (not taking into account EEA citizens moving to the UK and moving back out again & excluding TCN family members) about a quarter of all intra-EU freedom of movement passes through the UK. That is quite impressive for one country out of 28.

I would love to know the equivalent stats for France and Germany as well, but I could not locate them. If anybody else can locate them, please update this thread.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

secret.simon
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by secret.simon » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:11 pm

Does immigration harm the job prospects of the UK-born?
Research on the impact of immigration to the UK has detected no negative effects on the average wages of UK-born workers. There may even be slight positive effects, albeit with losses at the bottom of the wage distribution and gains at the top
...
But one group that does seem to suffer from the arrival of new immigrants is the stock of pre-existing immigrants
...
If the implementation of Brexit introduces restrictions on EU immigration in a way similar to the visa scheme currently in place for immigrants from outside the EU, the effects of cuts in EU immigration are mostly going to be noticed in sectors and professions in which immigrants are concentrated – towards the top and the bottom of the job ladder.
...
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Obie
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by Obie » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:09 am

secret.simon wrote:
So, at least (not taking into account EEA citizens moving to the UK and moving back out again & excluding TCN family members) about a quarter of all intra-EU freedom of movement passes through the UK. That is quite impressive for one country out of 28.

I would love to know the equivalent stats for France and Germany as well, but I could not locate them. If anybody else can locate them, please update this thread.
I am not sure 3 million as a fraction of 15 million in fraction is a Quarter, it is a fifth.

In any event, there are 6.5 million EU migrant living in Germany, and Germany is the not twice the population of the UK. German Population is only 17 Million more than the UK.

Also worth nothing that Germany is the 2 most immigrant absorbing country in the world after America.
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secret.simon
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by secret.simon » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:17 am

Obie wrote:I am not sure 3 million as a fraction of 15 million in fraction is a Quarter, it is a fifth.
I added both the 3 million in and the million out. Thus four million EU citizens exercised freedom of movement in relation to the UK, either to enter or to exit the UK. That comes to a quarter of the total movement within the EU.

Even assuming your take of only the 3 million entering the UK, for one country to take a fifth of all freedom of movement in a 28 country bloc is quite significant. Taking your statistics as regards EU migrants in Germany, that suggests that just two countries (Germany and the UK) have received just over half (60%) of all people moving within the EU. That is not an unsubstantial movement of people.
Obie wrote:In any event, there are 6.5 million EU migrant living in Germany
Could you point me to the source of the statistics in your statement? That is purely for the purposes of analysis.
Obie wrote:Also worth nothing that Germany is the 2 most immigrant absorbing country in the world after America.
Well, the US has turned, and rather sharply at that. Given the rise of the AfD, it is not improbable that the Germans may also look for a slowdown in the absorption of immigrants.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Obie
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by Obie » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:29 am

It makes little sense and logic to count migration and emigration in the same manner .

But i respect you desire to do it in a way that will make little sense to the ordinary person.

I appreciate that those 1 million can be added to the total figure, but you cannot add them as the total EU citizen that UK absorbs, which was my reading of your post.

SEE IMMIGRATION TO GERMANY
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rooibos
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by rooibos » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:15 pm

What's the point of splashing all these statistics right now? The UK as it is (with Scotland and NI in, for the time being) will definitely leave the EU and most likely leave the common market.

Simon, I believe you were a Brexit supporter. Are you having second thoughts or are you trying to prove a point?

noajthan
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by noajthan » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:28 pm

The facts surely/simply speak for themselves; they don't know the date nor status of Brexit.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

secret.simon
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by secret.simon » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:36 am

rooibos wrote:Simon, I believe you were a Brexit supporter.
Errr, No. I, unlike others on these forums, am ambivalent about the EU. I believe that the EU is a force for good, but as a trading bloc, not as a country or federation. I disagree with extremists/absolutists on both sides of the debate, whether it is those arguing for closing the borders completely or those arguing for no borders. I am repulsed by Juncker's and Verhofstadt's vision for the EU, but fascinated by the good and interesting work done by Eurocrats behind the scenes, whom I met as a part of my academic studies. Most people here don't know just how much of their day-to-day life is influenced by decisions taken in Brussels - everything from the charging socket on your phone to your choice of browser in Windows to the shape of your carrots.

I believe that the UK has significant cultural differences, especially in the legal and political fields, with continental Europe. There are historic differences between the UK and continental Europe and I think that the EU needed to make significant adjustments and allowances for it. It was that lack of willingness to compromise that, in my opinion, led to Brexit.

The purpose of most of my posts in this forum is to attempt to inform and moderate the debate, which is at risk of being completely one-sided and ill-informed/ignorant.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Obie
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by Obie » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:08 pm

Simon in all honesty, i am not sure your position is ambivalent. It was very clear, and left no doubt in the minds of reasonable person, as to what it was.

As i observed on your previous post, something i have expressed with you candidly on many occasions, your position has been very crystal clear on immigration, EU citizens, UK's entitlement to be given a special status in the EU, position on Refugees, German hospitality in welcoming the 1 million refugee.

One is entitled or at the least , will be excused for making reasonable inference of your position based on your postings, even if you were not explicit in setting our your positions.

Your position on how the other EU state should threat the EU, is not realistic or sustainable. As the french state, you go into a football match and play football for 90 minutes, you can't say at half time we will change to Rugby or cricket it will be outrageous and chaotic.

When UK joined the EEC in 1972, Free movement of workers existed, Regulation 1612/68 was in existence, and the right of EU citizen workers to move was known to the UK. That position has not changed much. EU cannot be expected to make accommodation for UK empire mentality, surely. Afterwards France has empire, even Germany until after world war 1, had empire. Imagine if they all asked for a special status.

It is absurd for any reasonable and rational minded person to suggest it ought to be changed for the UK.

Imagine an indispensable country like Germany, making the same preposition. It simply will not work, as other country like the Netherlands and Denmark or France, can request the same thing, and it create wholesome chaos.

I do not agree with such approach and do not think it is feasible.

I think the most sensible option is for the UK to leave and goes its own way.

Ken Clerk is right, the UK was on its knees when it joined the EC, and had lost its empire and links to former colony, and was a laughing stock in the world. The EU assisted the UK in getting a status in the world, and make it a force to be recon with.

Therefore the EU has been a force of good for the UK.

My position is very clear on this, there is no ambivalence on my part. The EU is a force of good for the UK, and the price for leaving will be hard felt. I do not think it is appropriate for any further concession to be given to the UK.
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BClassBritish
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by BClassBritish » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:53 pm

I agree with Obie here but I would also like to say that the British govt of 2004 should have had the vision to calculate the possible impact of unrestricted migration from the new(poorer) member EU states. There was a reason why most other members of the EU put a freedom of movement restriction on these new joiners for 7-10 years.

Whats done is done. I sincerely hope that it doesnt but realistically UK will suffer because of brexit.

dapto10
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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by dapto10 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:12 pm

The maximum length of the so called Transitional Controls period has been 7 years, imposed by the UK and just a few other countries on Bulgaria and Romania between 2007 and 2014.

In EU8's case (the wave of countries joining the EU in 2004), most of the 'old' EU countries imposed a 2-year transitional controls period with the exception of France (5 years), Hungary (7 years reciprocal limit).

Countries that imposed the 2-year TC: Denmark Finland, Portugal, Spain, Belgium, Greece and Luxembourg.
Countries with flexible bilateral quotas: Austria and Germany

All restrictions for EU8 nationals were dropped in early 2008.

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Re: EU Freedom of Movement statistics

Post by Rolfus » Wed May 10, 2017 4:55 pm

https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/1281393#inter4
This is study from which the EU immigrant population in France can be estimated at 2.5 million.
If there are a total of 15 million EU migrants, 2.5 in France, 3 in the UK, 6.5 million in Germany, then the three countries account for 12 out of 15 million. That feels about right.
civis europeus sum

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