FXR_1340 wrote: ↑
Wed May 02, 2018 5:47 pm
There is a lot about "rights" here and nothing about responsibility.
Wow, now that is an innovative, yet very old-fashioned thought. Individual rights are balanced by responsibilities (what my brother calls "obligations")!!!
In the Western world, states and corporate entities (the BBC, your local council, the local school) have duties and individuals have rights to exercise against the tyranny of those corporate bodies and against each other. Individual duties??? Don't be silly. You obviously have not assimilated sufficiently into the Western liberal worldview.
A discussion that starts with a Reductio ad Hitlerum
may require moderation and help to be well-rounded and analyse all sides.
Nobody observed that it is ironic that the "hostile environment" (now renamed the "compliant environment") is an import from that most liberal of places, Europe. I will make abundantly clear that it has nothing to do with the EU. But there is an expectation in most countries in continental Europe
for people to carry papers
that prove their right to reside in that country. Within Europe, the British Isles and Scandinavia are the main exceptions to this rule, primarily because it seems to be a civil law tradition and not a common law one. Indeed, part of the reason for the difference in behaviour between the UK, Ireland and Scandanavia on the one hand and the rest of the European countries on the other is likely that none of the former were conquered by that great unifier of Europe, Napoleon.
That far-right rag the Grauniad
observed in 2015 that "On one point refugees and aid workers agree – it is easier to live under the radar in Britain because we do not have ID cards. In France and every other European country with a Napoleonic code, you cannot access public services or find work without a card. In common-law England, you can just about muddle along." (link
It is also worth noting that it was not Theresa May who originated the idea of people in the UK being required to possess documentation. Indeed, at one time, she campaigned against the idea. So she can be accused of hypocrisy, but not of its origin.
Not everybody on these forums will recall that it was during the previous Labour government, the Blair years, that the Identity Cards Act 2006
was passed, which would have required everybody in the UK to have a biometric card and be registered on the National Identity Register. That such a requirement would apply to even British citizens was exploited by the Conservatives during their 2010 electoral campaign and when the Coalition took power in 2010, that Act was repealed. But the idea had already gestated by then.
It is worth noting that David Lammy
was a minister in that government (though not in the Home Office) and would have voted for the Identity Cards Act 2006 (under the principle of collective responsibility). So, if Theresa May can be accused of hypocracy, so can he.
Citizenship has been called "the right to have rights". If one is exercising a right (such as the right to reside or work in the UK), surely it is reasonable to ask one to prove whether they actually have the right to exercise that right.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.