As mentioned previously, I am no apologist fir the Tories. I was 20 years old when Thatcher came to power and I lived thru the decimation she, Tebbit, Joseph et al brought to this country. As a Scot we suffered very badly in our own country.Obie wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 3:59 pmWell it is difficult to go into the mind of those ministers that came to the decision to burn those cards, but one can lay out some theory and let you guys make up your mind.FXR_1340 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:49 pmThis subject becomes more confusing with each post.
In order to help understanding, what are the reasond behind the so called "hostile environment"?
In the event of it beginning, or at least possibly having its roots, back in mid 2000s what were the drivers?
On the 20-04-1968, there was a very prominent and respected Tory MP ( within the Tory party circle and their constituents at least) who gave a speech in Birmingham. This April marks half a century since he gave the speech.
He complained about the windrush people and the fact that the government must not allow them to come in, his speech was titled the river of blood. His views were well supported in the UK at a time when there was not much migration to the UK.
The Tories have always thrived on vilification of migrant. It is a policy that unites and binds them as a party, and a policy that enables them to rally their base in England. This nativist, cultural and anti-globalisation approach is what mobilises the conservatives. Lets face it, without migrant the Tories will have difficulties to make in roads especially in middle England. They have nothing to offer the poor and middle class. All they can give is tax cuts to the rich.
In 2005 Election i remember coming from school with my friends, and seeing this poster of Michael Howard, with the caption," Immigration is too high, are you thinking what we are thinking",It is 13 years ago but i still remember it, that was from a man whose parents came to this country running away from the Nazi, seeking to vilify migrant just for political gains to unite his party and their base. From that day, i made a decision that i shall never vote for these people. The billboards was put right at the entrance to my school, in inner London school with 38% children from ethnic background. Why did the Tories felt the need to put it infront of our school?
We know the story of Peter Griffiths, how he scapegoated Smethwick black voters. We know some of the despicable things he said when voters were surging to vote for his opponent, they are so abhorrent that i will not repeat them on this forum. That 1964 election happened in the Period of Windrush, when UK was begging these people to come in, and getting ship to bring them, when net migration was in the Negative.
To call windrush scandal 2018 as a mistake, demonstrate either a very high degree of ignorance, border line naivety of how the Tories operates and how they have operated for over a century, and how they will continue to operate in the future.
It is not an accident by any stretch of the imagination, it is their modus operandi. Hostility to migrant is in the Tories DNA and nothing will ever change that . They never make a mistake when it come to migrant. It is their football, they have always had to play it to maximum effect.
They have taken onboard what Mr Powell said in 1968, they have to make right, what they perceive in their minds as historical injustice caused as a result of ignoring one of their most respected MP's views on these people. As they approach the 50th anniversary of his speech they needed to do something spectacular. They had to make right the wrong that Mr Powell told them was being perpetrated in letting these people in, they had to burn these landing card that was acting as an obstacle to their endeavour, they had to then ask these people to prove the unprovable, they had to detain them and refuse them cancer treatment, they had to stop those who had left from returning, they had to refuse the advise from those who complained about the wrongness of their practice, they had to make the UK an hostile environment. They have to make windrush people go, they have to take on board the advise given in 1968, they realised it may have been a mistake to ignore it. The windrush migrant had to go, it was a mistake to let them In in the first place. As wanderer correctly stated, the UK was too full to accommodate them. It was a well calculated and executed policy
The same Tories at the 1964 election, who supported Peter Griffiths with all the means at their disposal, same Tories who supported Enoch Powell, the same Tories who said are you thinking what we are thinking, and we clearly know what they were thinking then and now, it is the same Tories we have today in power, the only difference is that in the 60's they do these things overtly, and in 2018 they are doing it covertly. They use dog-whistles ,nuances, words like hostile environment, use those annoying buses around London to intimidate.
I do not believe , when it comes to immigration that anything the conservatives do can ever be described as a mistake or accident.
They are showing regret because they were caught, and their reputation took a hit from people around the world. There is not an ounce of contrition on their part as far as i can see.
It is a wrongful approach to view these events in isolation as a one of event. One has to assess historical events, data, study the working of the Tories, their past practices, things that have said or done, acts they have supported implicitly or explicitly, then come to a conclusion as to the Windrush people, in the event of evidence to the contrary.
David Lammy speech hit the nail on the coffin, he may seem angry, but the Tories understand fully well what he was saying to them.
So to my point, you frequently mention the Tories and what they did. I understand your reluctance to vote Tory. However subsequent govts at WM have done little and not nearly enough to chance the immigration situation if this country. ALL govts in my life time (59 years) have chosen to conduct their politics using immigration as a political points opportunity.
IMO the problems surrounding Windrush, immigration etc are due to the mindset of the British Establishment. Its not a Tory thing its an acceptable way of thinking. Trust me. It will never change!
That brings me to the point of why does this country attract immigrants like a magnet? Lets face it, the only thing it has going for it is the NHS, Social Security system and the likes. That is an attraction for immigrants from many countries around the world.
Dont think for one second that the outlook towards immigration to UK is going to change. The doctines which have been adopted for decades will not change. The may fiddle about at the edges but they will not change sufficiently to make much difference. Its an Establishment thing. Establishment will never change.
......just my take on things