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Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

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FXR_1340
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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by FXR_1340 » Fri May 11, 2018 5:00 pm


Obie
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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Obie » Fri May 11, 2018 9:24 pm

Another extremely fearful report, which sets out the extremely dreadful situation in the UK.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Page ... 3&LangID=E

It address the situation in the UK post brexit and the windrush scandal.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by vinny » Sat May 12, 2018 1:14 am

Obie wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:24 pm
Another extremely fearful report, which sets out the extremely dreadful situation in the UK.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Page ... 3&LangID=E

It address the situation in the UK post brexit and the windrush scandal.
Some info on the author of the report.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Obie » Sat May 12, 2018 10:24 am

After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by vinny » Mon May 14, 2018 10:47 am

Richard W wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:40 am
There's also the issue of whether a dead man can satisfy the Home Secretary that he is the father of his illegitimate child. I have not heard a reassuring "of course he can" or even "yes, if he did so while alive". Must we await case law on this issue? Thank goodness a passport application is retrospectively construed as an application for registration.
Here's a recent case.
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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Richard W » Mon May 14, 2018 8:39 pm

vinny wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:47 am
Richard W wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 8:40 am
There's also the issue of whether a dead man can satisfy the Home Secretary that he is the father of his illegitimate child.
Here's a recent case.
This has no bearing on whether a dead man can satisfy the SoS that he is somebody's father. Indeed, paternity was not an issue.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by vinny » Mon May 14, 2018 10:52 pm

Wasn’t the father dead at the time of the DNA tests (10, 26)?
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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Obie » Tue May 15, 2018 5:41 pm

After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Richard W » Tue May 15, 2018 11:12 pm

vinny wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:52 pm
Wasn’t the father dead at the time of the DNA tests (10, 26)?
So? The question is whether a dead man can satisfy the Home Secretary of anything, not whether he can be shown to be related to someone, or else if the judges have effectively changed the wording of the regulations.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by vinny » Tue May 15, 2018 11:50 pm

In this case, the Home Office's position seems to be that if the father is dead, then the DNA tests are inconclusive. The Courts would be the arbiter.

Windrush descendants may have faced similar problems.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Richard W » Wed May 16, 2018 10:34 pm

vinny wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 11:50 pm
In this case, the Home Office's position seems to be that if the father is dead, then the DNA tests are inconclusive.
I see no evidence of that view. The problem seems rather that to be that the claimant seems very closely related to one alleged full sibling, but not so closely related to another. This case was a dispute as to the facts.

What bothers me about the establishment of paternity for nationality is that is not just a matter of the biological facts, but the need for the father to satisfy the SoS. That is a worrying formality.

The Windrush issue is that the best evidence of British nationality is descent in the female line from someone born in the UK before 1983. Fortunately, unaltered birth certificates before some recent date can serve as evidence of paternity without the father needing to satisfy the SoS of anything.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Obie » Wed May 16, 2018 10:54 pm

The problem with you Richard, you are reading this legislation literally as opposed to establishing its underlying purpose and reading it based on that. An applicant seeking to apply for a passport, will on a balance of probabilities seek to establish their citizenship. If a person applies when they are adult, their parent from whom the derive citizenship will play little role in that.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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EU citizens at risk from May's 'hostile environment' after Brexit, warns former UK civil service chief

Post by rooibos » Sat May 19, 2018 7:52 pm

EU citizens at risk from May's 'hostile environment' after Brexit, warns former UK civil service chief

http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-citize ... ake-2018-5

EU citizens living in the UK risk becoming the next victims of Theresa May's "hostile environment" policy after Brexit, the former head of the UK civil service has told Business Insider.

Lord Kerslake, who led the civil service between 2012 and 2014, told BI that the combination of May's anti-immigration policies and the Home Office's inability to cope with the huge numbers of EU citizens applying to remain in the UK, meant EU citizens were now at risk.

"I think it is a real issue, because of a combination of a very hostile policy and uncertain systems that are uncertain as we know and put the onus on the individual to prove their position rather than the other way round," Kerslake said.

"The Home Office has improved, but Windrush has shown that significant issues about its systems still remain."

The Home Office faces the huge administrative task of processing the applications of nearly 4 million EU nationals in the near future, as well as trying to prepare and implement a post-Brexit immigration policy which does not currently exist.

Concerns about the future of EU citizens in the UK were amplified in April following a series of damning Guardian reports revealed that the Home Office had targeted numerous "Windrush" immigrants, who moved to the UK legally from the Caribbean from 1948. The resulting scandal ultimately forced the resignation of Home Secretary Amber Rudd.

Kerslake told BI that the Home Office needed to reassure European citizens living in the UK that they would not be similarly targeted.

"Given what happened with Windrush, the onus is now on the government and the Home Office to reassure us that it isn't going to be a problem [for EU citizens]" Kerslake said.

"In other words, I won't believe it until somebody shows me it isn't going to be a problem," he added.

[...]

A Home Office spokesperson told Business Insider: "We are developing from scratch a new streamlined, user-friendly scheme for EU citizens to safeguard their right to stay in the UK after we leave the EU.

"Every EU citizen resident in the UK on the day the transition period ends in December 2020 will be eligible for some form of leave to remain, subject to criminality checks. We have committed to ensuring that applications will not be refused on minor technicalities and that caseworkers processing applications will exercise discretion in favour of the applicant where appropriate.

"We will be setting out further details before the summer and EU citizens will have plenty of time to make an application. But we have also been clear that we will exercise discretion if there are good reasons why someone has not been able to make an application before the June 2021 deadline."
Please note "some form of leave to remain".

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Obie » Sat May 19, 2018 9:43 pm

After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by rooibos » Mon May 21, 2018 8:00 am

Unfortunately the average British voter wants this and we'll see more of that. Let's just give up to it.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by Mojojojo00 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am

I don't think it's that bad :p Nazi era was very extreme and barbaric.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by vinny » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:00 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by FighterBoy » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:46 pm

vinny wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:27 pm
Who's next may be the UK-born children to an ILR parent who subsequently naturalises. When an ILR BRP holder naturalises, they are threaten with fines if they do not return their ILR BRP to be destroyed. This leaves their UK-born children without the proof of their automatic British citizenship!
I'm in this situation obie, as are 100s of thousands I suspect. Born in UK to settled father and he had to return/destroy ILR after becoming BC.

Why isn't this scandal mainstream yet and will any provision be made, as with windrush? I am trapped in the UK and unable to prove my nationality due to this catch 22. Do I need to go to court?

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by secret.simon » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:17 am

FighterBoy wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:46 pm
I'm in this situation obie, as are 100s of thousands I suspect. Born in UK to settled father and he had to return/destroy ILR after becoming BC.
I doubt there would be many people in this position.

The requirement to destroy BRPs (which only started getting issued in the past ten years) only came in in the past three-four years.

The policy only adversely affects children born after one parent acquired an ILR BRP, but whose parent subsequently naturalized in the past three-four years. That is a relatively narrow field. While certainly in the hundreds, and possibly the low thousands, I'm fairly certain that it would not impact hundreds of thousands of applicants.

If your father acquired ILR in the 1980s, that would have been stamped into his non-British passport. Passports are the property of the government that issue them and it is highly unlikely that the British government would have damaged or destroyed any part of a non-British passport. Therefore, the proof of your British citizenship by birth in the UK to a settled parent would your father's non-British passport with the ILR stamp or vignette dated before your birth and have nothing to do with the BRP destruction point made by Vinny and Obie.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Is May's 'Hostile Environment Reminiscent Of Nazi Germany

Post by secret.simon » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:19 am

We should be very worried.

UK poised to embrace authoritarianism, warns Hansard Society
when people were asked whether “Britain needs a strong ruler willing to break the rules”, 54% agreed and only 23% said no.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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