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Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

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Lucilla
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Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by Lucilla » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:16 pm

I think this could be an interesting topic of discussion. Keep in mind that this is just speculation, as I do not think we have enough information to know for certain how things will work out post-Brexit. Still, I would like to hear your opinion on this issue.

As it stands, EU citizens can marry UK citizens very easily. They need to present little more than their passport and birth certificate to be allowed to do so. For non-EU citizens, there are all sorts of barriers: you must prove you have been in a relationship for a period of two years, you must submit much more paperwork etc.

I genuinely wonder what is likely to happen in the immediate future. Will those same rigid regulations begin to apply to EU citizens as well after Brexit? Will marriages that take place during the Brexit negotiation period be subject to scrutiny to ensure that they are genuine, and that UK nationals are not just getting paid to marry EU nationals to give them the right to stay, despite not even knowing them? What's your opinion?

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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by CR001 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:57 pm

Lucilla wrote:For non-EU citizens, there are all sorts of barriers: you must prove you have been in a relationship for a period of two years, you must submit much more paperwork etc.
This is not a requirement to marry. Why do you think it is? This is ONLY a requirement for an Unmarried Partner Visa and ironically, the same two year evidence is required for an EU Cit and Non-EU Cit who are unmarried partners, or in a 'durable relationship'.
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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by ohara » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:09 pm

Lucilla wrote:For non-EU citizens, there are all sorts of barriers: you must prove you have been in a relationship for a period of two years, you must submit much more paperwork etc.
Who the hell told you that? You could marry someone you have never even been in a relationship with, if you wished.

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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by noajthan » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:22 pm

Lucilla wrote:...

there are all sorts of barriers: you must prove you have been in a relationship for a period of two years, you must submit much more paperwork etc.

I genuinely wonder what is likely to happen in the immediate future. Will those same rigid regulations begin to apply to EU citizens as well after Brexit? Will marriages that take place during the Brexit negotiation period be subject to scrutiny to ensure that they are genuine, and that UK nationals are not just getting paid to marry EU nationals to give them the right to stay, despite not even knowing them? What's your opinion?
Two years blah blah... This is some sort of misunderstanding.
Although my old auntie always did used to say marry in haste repent at leisure.

There is already stringent scrutiny to winkle out marriages of convenience and sham marriage:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ons-v1.pdf
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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by Lucilla » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:52 pm

Guys, I am so sorry. I confused the unmarried partnership rules with the marriage rules. Really sorry about that! Actually, those investigative rules on marriage shams look really sensible, because they seek to prevent forced marriages, trafficking and other horrors of the sort.

Nonetheless, I wonder how many couples involving an EU citizen will get married in the next two years or so if the EU national is at risk at deportation. I would be interested to see whether some may be forced to return to their home EU country and apply for a fiance/spouse visa from there, which sounds absolutely crazy and beyond extreme, but after the Brexit vote I genuinely expect just about anything from the immigration office :lol:

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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by clawsie » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:07 pm

and that UK nationals are not just getting paid to marry EU nationals to give them the right to stay
Not sure where you got your info from, but being a EU citizen married to a UK citizen does not give the right to permanent residence! The EU spouse has to apply for PR in their own name, same as everybody else.

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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by Casa » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:25 pm

You have also missed the fact that in order for a marriage to take place which involves a foreign national (including EU citizens) the marriage has to be registered with a Home Office designated Registry Office.

The Registrar is then legally bound to notify the HO who can then extend the notification period from 28 to 70 days in order to interview the couple separately before the wedding can go ahead. If the HO believe the marriage is a sham it will not take place.
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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by Maple1 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:35 am

Lucilla wrote:Guys, I am so sorry. I confused the unmarried partnership rules with the marriage rules. Really sorry about that! Actually, those investigative rules on marriage shams look really sensible, because they seek to prevent forced marriages, trafficking and other horrors of the sort.

Nonetheless, I wonder how many couples involving an EU citizen will get married in the next two years or so if the EU national is at risk at deportation. I would be interested to see whether some may be forced to return to their home EU country and apply for a fiance/spouse visa from there, which sounds absolutely crazy and beyond extreme, but after the Brexit vote I genuinely expect just about anything from the immigration office :lol:
Policy will change for the EU and at best it will be similar to the Non-EU route at best. You cannot make EU citizen have stricter immigration law than non-EU, because at best, both non-EU or EU will be the same categories in UK's view. Therefore, no one will be deported unless the individuals haven't maintain any documentations to meet the requirements.

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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by tmonaghan » Mon May 08, 2017 6:47 am

Hello,

I am a British Citizen marrying a EU Citizen. He does not have any additional privileges when marrying a British Citizen other than not having to wait six years before applying for Citizenship. However based on the outcome of Brexit; marrying your long term EU partner in the UK will be of some value when making an appeal based on Article 8 of ECHR in case the UK Government decided to deport EU Citizen who have not Permanent Residence because they have not been exercising their EU Treaty Rights for five years.

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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by ouflak1 » Tue May 09, 2017 8:04 pm

tmonaghan wrote:...making an appeal based on Article 8 of ECHR ....
You're assuming that EU law will have any relevance in the UK whatsoever after Brexit. This will likely not be true in many many cases, if at all.

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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by secret.simon » Wed May 10, 2017 4:15 am

ouflak1 wrote:
tmonaghan wrote:...making an appeal based on Article 8 of ECHR ....
You're assuming that EU law will have any relevance in the UK whatsoever after Brexit. This will likely not be true in many many cases, if at all.
The ECHR is a separate treaty (or more accurately, a convention) from the EU, with the EU itself and all countries in Europe excepting Belarus but including Russia and Turkey, being signatories to the Convention. As it is a separate and unrelated treaty, Brexit will have no impact on our membership of the ECHR and the ECHR will continue to apply to the UK even after Brexit.

Having said that, Theresa May is not a fan of the ECHR or of the Human Rights Act, which allows ECHR claims to be made in British courts. It is entirely possible if she has a large enough majority that Parliament may repeal the Human Rights Act, which allows British courts to hear ECHR claims. UK citizens would then need to apply directly to the ECHR court in Strasbourg. That was the situation in the UK between 1953 (the signing of the ECHR) and 2000 (the coming into force of the Human Rights Act).
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Re: Marriage laws between EU/UK nationals: will they change?

Post by tmonaghan » Wed May 10, 2017 6:26 am

ouflak1 wrote:
tmonaghan wrote:...making an appeal based on Article 8 of ECHR ....
You're assuming that EU law will have any relevance in the UK whatsoever after Brexit. This will likely not be true in many many cases, if at all.

Yes ouflak1, I am assuming that EU Law would not apply anymore after Brexit. Irrespective of whether there is an agreement or not, the European Convention on Human Rights will continue to offer a means of defending the right to residence and other related rights, such as the right to private and family life and the right to private property, for as long as the ECHR remains part of UK law.

Therefore, in view of the two possible scenarios (withdrawal with or without agreement), it would always be better for the citizens on both the UK and the rest of the EU if the negotiators reached an agreement.

I found an interesting reading called "The impact and consequences of Brexit on acquired rights of EU Citizens living in the UK and British Citizens living in the EU-27"

Here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/e ... 135_EN.pdf

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