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I think you would need to fulfil the new requirements, but I am not sure if there are many people that know an exact answer to that question.shnooks1 wrote:What do you suppose would happen to me if I receive a family permit before the referendum but we both couldn't move until after June? In order for me to stay my spouse would still need to fulfill the new requirements because he was not exercising treaty rights before the new law was created correct? I'm mostly just desperate to know if we would be affected by the changes at all in my (what seems to be) a rare situation. (See above post)nyabs wrote: I also don't think that those families currently exercising their rights under the current free movement will suddenly be asked to fulfill the new requirements).
I think it is all conjecture at this point until we witness the final results of the referendum. Looking at this line:shnooks1 wrote:We haven't found a flat yet so I highly doubt we would be able to apply for the RC in time and it would be a huge risk we aren't willing to make. I just don't understand why I wouldn't be allowed to exercise treaty rights if my EU spouse has never lived in the UK or EU.
Because the UK is full of xenophobic UKIPers and Tory voters who are hell bent on setting some arbitrary figure on immigration numbers as a way of keeping dirty foreigners out.shnooks1 wrote:We haven't found a flat yet so I highly doubt we would be able to apply for the RC in time and it would be a huge risk we aren't willing to make. I just don't understand why I wouldn't be allowed to exercise treaty rights if my EU spouse has never lived in the UK or EU.
Think it's more the constant abuse of the rules and the system by migrants that's the real issue behind this tightening up, just look in the Tier 1/2 forums at all the tax fidders who thought they'd got away with it being caught out now.ryuzaki wrote:Because the UK is full of xenophobic UKIPers and Tory voters who are hell bent on setting some arbitrary figure on immigration numbers as a way of keeping dirty foreigners out.shnooks1 wrote:We haven't found a flat yet so I highly doubt we would be able to apply for the RC in time and it would be a huge risk we aren't willing to make. I just don't understand why I wouldn't be allowed to exercise treaty rights if my EU spouse has never lived in the UK or EU.
At this point, I think it's time to abandon ship. The UK has made it clear that it doesn't want its citizens to marry foreigners. Maybe we can claim refugee status in the EU somewhere. Only half kidding. How would a British person claiming asylum on human rights grounds (right to a family) in the EU get on after a Brexit?
The best option seems to be to get out of the UK as quickly as possible, before the referendum. No matter what the result is, you will be better off if you are covered by existing rules than whatever they bring in afterwards.
I think so too. That is what I meant when I said that the deal was negotiated in bad faith.ohara wrote:I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about so go easy on me, but is it possible that the other 28 member states agreed with Cameron's renegotiation proposals because they knew they'd never hold up in the European court?
The rule that first entry is determined by national rules seems fairly robust, even if it may need to be tweaked. A lot of states were opposed to Metock. It's more a case of Cameron pushing on an open door.ohara wrote:I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about so go easy on me, but is it possible that the other 28 member states agreed with Cameron's renegotiation proposals because they knew they'd never hold up in the European court?
Other than Denmark and Ireland and to a lesser extent UK, can you please enlighten me on the rest of these many countries that opposed Metock are?Richard W wrote: A lot of states were opposed to Metock.
any ideas?robsters wrote:Hello
read most of this thread we were in Dublin and re entered the UK in september last year using the SS route, we claimed for the UK EU residence card and got it by december 2015, my wife also gave birth in uk the same month as well so our new born son is registered british citizen now as well. my question is my wife was given the 5 year residence card now whatever the outcome of the referendum could they take this card away from my wife? my concern is if we have exit vote i fear they will say i need to be earning the 22.5k a year which for me i would fail to meet at this point but looking for the job paying that or more just incase. this has started to worry myself and my wife. any information or ideas would be helpful, either way i am glad we got in before this kicked off but i feel we are not completely safe yet. sadly my wife never be able get british passport without giving up her nationality as her country of indonesia does not allowed dual nationalship she has no intension to give up her own passport in 5 years so either way i can see at some point the future things will get complicated to stay in england for the long term.
Possibly I'm reading too much into the list of those who submitted observations in the Metock case, but the list reads: Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland and the UK. According to Wikipedia, the judgement caused law changes in at least Austria, Cyprus, Czech republic and Slovakia, Denmark, Germany, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania and the United Kingdom.Obie wrote:Other than Denmark and Ireland and to a lesser extent UK, can you please enlighten me on the rest of these many countries that opposed Metock are?Richard W wrote: A lot of states were opposed to Metock.
what happens if its BREXIT vote to leave the eu will the 5yr residence card issued in the uk be taken away?Richard W wrote:As to Robsters case, he may be safe. He's in his second EU state, so he's not definitely targeted. The issue is whether what we face is the change as described in the declaration or the more specific change that national law should apply for the first member state resided in. The latter makes most sense, but we just don't know how the law will be worded, or how member states will transpose it.
Member states are allowed to be more generous than the directives require. For example, family members of dual British/Irish citizens who were already wrongly benefiting from the directive were allowed to continue to benefit.
On a matter of detail, note that the financial requirement depends on the number of non-British family members, so the birth of children in the UK does not at present increase the requirement. This would not necessarily be so if unsettled EU nationals were allowed to bring family members into the UK, though EU-citizen family members are exempted by the current directives.
It's very, very unlikely, conceivably possible, but if we get to that point I'm not even sure the UK is a country I would want to live in.robsters wrote:.........
what happens if its BREXIT vote to leave the eu will the 5yr residence card issued in the uk be taken away?
Unfairness does not come in. It is a rule of the club. Just like a British in Denmark , Netherlands or Germany will not need to do integration.ohara wrote:I am somewhat in support of stopping the practice of people who are in the UK illegally using the EEA family permit to legitimise their stay. It does seem absurd. I believe it is also unfair that EEA citizens can sidestep UK immigration law to bring their non-EEA family members in to the UK much easier than British citizens can, although this is probably more a fault of the UK laws than the EEA ones. It is clear that the UK government do not want people to bring their non-EEA family into the UK.
I agree with you absolutely. I was talking more about people who are using relationships of convenience to abuse the system.Obie wrote:I believe the immigration status of the family member is immaterial, so long as the relationship is genuine.
Well, my wife's RC was refused as they said there was not much proofs of me exercising my treaty rights, but a hint was made if there is a new application, to expect to attend a marriage interview, because our is a convenience one,( they say ) because in April 2014 a visit visa for her was refused, to what I had to change all my plans, went to pick her up to her country, we flew to mine, got married in August 2014 and got into the UK in September that year.ohara wrote:
I agree with you absolutely. I was talking more about people who are using relationships of convenience to abuse the system.
If the US spouse has never lived in Europe, there would be no reverse discrimination. The movement would be made under local immigration law. Now, if there is no change in local law, and the EU spouse had never lived in Europe, there would be nationality-based restrictions for the couple to move to the EU directly. For example, a Frenchman moving with his non-EU spouse spouse to the UK would have to come in on the points-based system, and an Englishman moving to France would need a work permit. Essentially, an EU citizen exercising his free movement rights does not necessarily initially have any right at all to family reunification with a non-resident, non-EU family member. After a period of residence (5 years in the UK), the EU citizen may often bring non-EU members over under local law.shnooks1 wrote:Please clarify how the supposed changes would affect an EU citizen who lives in the US and married an american. The EU spouse has never lived in Europe. Would the couple still be able to move together to any EU country (in our case Ireland) under movement rights?
There are no changes to free movement for the EU spouse - it's the non-EU partner would have to comply with local laws.Richard W wrote:If the US spouse has never lived in Europe, there would be no reverse discrimination. The movement would be made under local immigration law. Now, if there is no change in local law, and the EU spouse had never lived in Europe, there would be nationality-based restrictions for the couple to move to the EU directly. For example, a Frenchman moving with his non-EU spouse spouse to the UK would have to come in on the points-based system, and an Englishman moving to France would need a work permit. Essentially, an EU citizen exercising his free movement rights does not necessarily initially have any right at all to family reunification with a non-resident, non-EU family member. After a period of residence (5 years in the UK), the EU citizen may often bring non-EU members over under local law.shnooks1 wrote:Please clarify how the supposed changes would affect an EU citizen who lives in the US and married an american. The EU spouse has never lived in Europe. Would the couple still be able to move together to any EU country (in our case Ireland) under movement rights?