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New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, Zimba, Administrator

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chaoclive
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New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by chaoclive » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:03 am

"The agreement confirms measures to deny free-movement rights to nationals of a country outside the EU who marry an EU national, as well as action to tackle the use of sham marriages to gain residence rights."

Does this mean that the EEA route is now, effectively, closed?

secret.simon
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by secret.simon » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:21 am

Don't worry. The ECJ/CJEU will throw it all out. The negotiations are worthless and blatantly in bad faith.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

silverpearlz
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by silverpearlz » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:24 am

The deal is not clear yet. This will probably be applied along with legislative change. Also may be after UK decides to stay in EU after referendum. I am not sure if these politicians decisions abide by law. Could be a political gimmick to make people think UK achieved something. But UK has to be in EU for business. It is turning in to a business deal and disrespecting people's freedom. This should be challenged by all people through petitions or something like that. Just my opinion. I am still not clear about what the exact regulation change will be.

secret.simon
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by secret.simon » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:04 am

BBC Radio 4 has a few programmes about the EU deal. The Week in Westminster is live now.

The World at One is also covering this topic today.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Remawirah
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Remawirah » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:10 am

This is very disappointing news. Does anyone know approximately how long this would take to be applied to uk law?
Would this also affect people on residence cards about to apply for PR?
Thanks.

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alex1128
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by alex1128 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:36 am

Did anyone have access to this drafted deal yet ,?
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COA: 29/07
Received Questionnaire: 09/11
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ryuzaki
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by ryuzaki » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:53 am

"In accordance with Union law, Member States are able to take action to prevent abuse of rights or fraud, such as the presentation of forged documents, and address cases of contracting or maintaining marriages of convenience with third country nationals for the purpose of making use of free movement as a route for regularising unlawful stay in a Member State or address cases of making use of free movement as a route for bypassing national immigration rules applying to third country nationals."

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meeti ... /02/18-19/

It looks like they want to shut it down. The only question now is what the timeline will be, and when the cut-off date is. Cameron is trying to rip our families apart.

Obie
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Obie » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:04 pm

The deal is not bad. Cameron has got the most he could have hoped for. I don't think a lot may change .

The deal will only come into effect if UK vote to stay in and the commission is informed of this.

alphagear
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by alphagear » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:10 pm

Wonder what the case will be with people who have already done the route and returned to uk.

I will be applying for eea2 in april after wife gives birth.

noajthan
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by noajthan » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:15 pm

ryuzaki wrote:"In accordance with Union law, Member States are able to take action to prevent abuse of rights or fraud, such as the presentation of forged documents, and address cases of contracting or maintaining marriages of convenience with third country nationals for the purpose of making use of free movement as a route for regularising unlawful stay in a Member State or address cases of making use of free movement as a route for bypassing national immigration rules applying to third country nationals."
Questions of abuse have always been a component of EU law.

See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/abuse-o ... der-singh/
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

secret.simon
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by secret.simon » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:01 pm

Michael, Lord Forsyth made an absolutely valid point on the Week in Westminster that I had not thought of earlier.

This is not going to be just one referendum, but the first of several. The European Union Act 2011 provides for a referendum for each EU treaty change that provides for a transfer of power. There is a good chance that we will be seeing EU referendums on a regular basis now.

Mind you, our brethren across the Irish Sea and other EU countries such as Denmark have had that provision for quite a while now. So, it is not innovative, but it certainly is likely to be disruptive.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Sincejune
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Sincejune » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:07 pm

Hi.
What your opinions on the people who are still waiting for EUTR visas to issued by the embassies.

Do u thing they will never complete Surinder Singh route route even if they get the type c visas from now on ?

ryuzaki
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by ryuzaki » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:14 pm

noajthan wrote:Questions of abuse have always been a component of EU law.

See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/abuse-o ... der-singh/
It's the second part where they talk about people circumventing the home country's immigration laws. That's the main reason people go this route, and would seem to talk to pretty much everyone wanting an EEA visa for partners from outside the EU.

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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:23 pm

There was a long thread at the start of the month on this topic, but it's effectively gone missing - by accident, not deliberately.

For the best analysis I can find - though the logic is not the best - see Professor Steve Peers' EU law blog. The actual text is at European Council conclusions - there's also an introductory web page. The relevant text is in Annex VII.

The killer provision, to be implemented in new legislation, is
The Commission intends to adopt a proposal to complement Directive 2004/38 on free movement of Union citizens in order to exclude, from the scope of free movement rights, third country nationals who had no prior lawful residence in a Member State before marrying a Union citizen or who marry a Union citizen only after the Union citizen has established residence in the host Member State. Accordingly, in such cases, the host Member State's immigration law will apply to the third country national. This proposal will be submitted after the above Decision has taken effect.
However, I don't have any hope that we can kill this proposal by voting to leave the EU. It has supporters, perhaps as misunderstood, in other members of the EU.

This will affect people who have already settled in the EU using a national route. For example, because my wife has not naturalised, I, a British citizen, won't automatically be able to take her with me if I go to work on the continent. My wife only arrived in Europe after we married. I don't see why, instead of the red text, they couldn't have been satisfied with "spouses who are third country nationals who have no current lawful residence in a member state". That was part of the British 2006 regulations. The legal change is going to need work anyway, unless they're saying that certain spouses can't enter under the directive, but their children can. This discrepancy would have some attractiveness for long-term Surinder Singhing in - get the step-children in via Surinder Singh, and their parent via the national law.

It is possible that the ECJ will modify the new directive so that purely national law will only apply to initial entry, or perhaps entry for settlement, and that subsequent movement around the EEA will be as before. However, Steve Peers expressed doubts as to the ECJ's commitment to justice over public interest considerations.

Obie
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Obie » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:34 pm

My personal and legal view is that people should not be over concern about these proposed changes.

David Cameron has got what he want and the referendum is well and truly in earnest .

British people will go to the polls on the 23rd.

I believe it will be business as usual on the 24th June.
Black life matters.

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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Richard W » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:50 pm

Obie wrote:I believe it will be business as usual on the 24th June.
What about 24 June 2017?

Obie
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Obie » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:54 pm

I did not say 24 June 2017 , I said 24 June 2016 .


A day after the referendum.
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Casa
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by Casa » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:57 pm

Business as usual maybe...apart from these new conditions. :|
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mkhan2525
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by mkhan2525 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:06 pm

It's likely to be business as usual for those that have already moved to the host member state and have applied for their Article 10 residence cards. That is if transitional arrangements are in place.

We will have to see what happens in the coming months.

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alex1128
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Re: New EU deal: Free-movement rights gone?

Post by alex1128 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:16 pm

Obie wrote:My personal and legal view is that people should not be over concern about these proposed changes.

David Cameron has got what he want and the referendum is well and truly in earnest .

British people will go to the polls on the 23rd.

I believe it will be business as usual on the 24th June.
You think those laws will not go into effect after the referendum?
Application sent: 25.06
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COA: 29/07
Received Questionnaire: 09/11
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