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Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal?

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

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Casa
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Casa » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:45 am

@Obie Personally, I'd move it to the General Discussion board...and let it continue. Interesting stuff....I blame King Alfred and the burning of the cakes. :wink:

Edit: having posted that, I see we're back to the EU-UK deal issue. :|
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by secret.simon » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:57 am

I would suggest moving all posts starting from my post at 7:12PM yesterday through till (but not including) 357mag's post earlier today into a new thread in the General Discussion section, while retaining the rest. I had suggested earlier merging this thread with the one already existing on the EU Referendum and that suggestion may be worth a revisit.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Obie » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:02 am

Casa wrote:@Obie Personally, I'd move it to the General Discussion board...and let it continue. Interesting stuff....I blame King Alfred and the burning of the cakes. :wink:

Edit: having posted that, I see we're back to the EU-UK deal issue. :|
Yes we are still on that and the impact on spouse or durable partner or Surinder singh .

I think some aspect of this thread needs to stay here.

The issue on Scotland Wales and Northernlreland could stay in another thread.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Casa » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:46 am

Obie wrote:
Casa wrote:@Obie Personally, I'd move it to the General Discussion board...and let it continue. Interesting stuff....I blame King Alfred and the burning of the cakes. :wink:

Edit: having posted that, I see we're back to the EU-UK deal issue. :|
Yes we are still on that and the impact on spouse or durable partner or Surinder singh .

I think some aspect of this thread needs to stay here.

The issue on Scotland Wales and Northernlreland could stay in another thread.
CR001 has 'volunteered' to sort this out later during her well-earned lunch break. :)
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Petaltop » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:05 pm

Simon, you're a fountain of knowledge. A well read man with a good sense of humour. I always read your posts.

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by 357mag » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:04 pm

I don't think holiday visa or even some student visas in the host nation would work. Primary residence has a tighter set of rules.

I already have long term residence card in Bulgaria with the plan for my DR partner to join me later, she's not ready yet, but this proposal is a big kick in the teeth. We cant actually get married. She's Filipino and divorce is illegal there so she's been separated for over six years and been with me for the last four. maybe that she was resident in the UK for five years till a year ago would qualify the previous living in an EEA state but I think that's a bit thin.

I can't even go live in the Philippines because we would both face a mandatory seven years jail if we were under the same roof.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by secret.simon » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:11 pm

The proposals are pretty meaningless. Don't fret.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Casa » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:13 pm

Interestingly, the Home Office originally introduced the Unmarried Partner visa for couples in your situation where in countries such as the Philippines divorce is illegal. The concession was later extended to all couples who could prove a relationship 'akin to marriage' for a minimum of 2 years.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by 357mag » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:23 pm

Yes well we cant be living together for a minimum of two years. I'm stuck here she's stuck there.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by noajthan » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:31 pm

357mag wrote:Yes well we cant be living together for a minimum of two years. I'm stuck here she's stuck there.
Mabuhay! As an aside, have you looked into annulment as an option?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 509519.stm
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... nt/396449/
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Obie » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:41 pm

secret.simon wrote:The proposals are pretty meaningless. Don't fret.
This is an offense to Mr Tusk Who has worked tirelessly to come with a proposal which will transform the UK ' S relation with the EU for good and reduce net migration and ensure UK is not part of any integration.

It is wrong to call it meaningless.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by 357mag » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:52 pm

noajthan wrote:
357mag wrote:Yes well we cant be living together for a minimum of two years. I'm stuck here she's stuck there.
Mabuhay! As an aside, have you looked into annulment as an option?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/f ... 509519.stm
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... nt/396449/
Salamat, yes we have, she's talking to solicitors now but the lowest price we can find is £2700 and an estimated two years, and if she comes to Bulgaria by some miracle then she wont be in a position to go to court in PH. She was actually granted divorce while in UK but of course it's not recognised in PH. We were in Hong Kong last year and went through the whole procedure for a wedding except the final ceremony, couldn't risk that she would face jail when she went back to PH.
Another horrible aspect of annulment is the children become bastards and it can mess up their employment and schooling opportunities.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by 357mag » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:30 pm

Sorry, now 've also deviated from the OP.

All I was going to say was the proposal does not cater for DR neither does it cater for Registered Partnership couples. All it says is must be married before going to host country.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by 357mag » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:52 pm

As a subnote I wrote to the EU committee on petitions last year while my girl was still here.
https://petiport.secure.europarl.europa ... -of-people.

Their response was to quote Diatta v Land Berlin.
And conclusion
At a general level, the Commission considers that the practical problems the petitioner described in his petition are due to incorrect application of EU law on free movement of EU citizens by national authorities.The Commission, as a Guardian of the Treaties, has taken-and continues to take-enforcement measures against Member States that act in breach of their obligations under the Directive, for example by requiring evidence of living together for two years.
I am not a forum GURU, I am often wrong
Dont take any notice of anything I post, I'm getting old and havn't the foggiest what I'm talking about.

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by avjones » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:47 am

Obie wrote: Wales was a cletic nation until it was annexed by England in the 16th Century by the English and incorporated into England, but it once was an independent nation.
I don't think that's right at all. Wales was mostly more than once principality, and was united only under a couple of Princes before King Edward I swept in and essentially helped himself to the lot in the 1270s. Thereafter, although Wales wasn't legally merged until the 1530s, it was in no sense a separate state or place. There were periodic rebellions, but none lasted very long.

So the only time Wales was an independent place was for a few decades in the 13th century, when it was a Principality. At the time there was no real concept of the "nation state" or "country" in our manner of using the terms.
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People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Petaltop » Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:01 am

secret.simon wrote:As I have mentioned in other threads, people are making a big mistake in thinking that the EU is going to remain the same whether the UK is within or without the EU.
It's not only the migrant problems, but the reverberations for the EU from Brexit

'Devastating' Brexit will consign Europe to a second rate world power, warns Deutsche Bank
"The implications of the UK not being in the EU will be truly devastating for Europe" says David Folkerts-Landau.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... -Bank.html


Brexit vote could turn UK into a 'safe haven' triggering EU disintegration, say Barclays
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... clays.html

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by secret.simon » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:10 am

Petaltop wrote:It's not only the migrant problems, but the reverberations for the EU from Brexit.
I agree. If the UK votes to leave the EU, it will effectively be the second country to vote to leave the EEA on the grounds of opposition to unrestricted freedom of movement, Switzerland being the first.

It is interesting to note that both countries are relatively wealthy nations within the EU with their wealth primarily drawn from being the base for financial institutions and services and not from manufacturing, which could benefit from cheap labour moving about the EU. That may be construed as a possible cause of the opposition to free movement of labour.

Two countries walking out on the same principle will flag to the EU that however much it is a key principle for the six founding members in the 1960s, it may not be workable now in an EU of 28 member-states or an EEA of 32.

Indeed, Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, has stated that the risk of EU breakup is real. How much of that is political posturing and how much is for real remains to be seen.

Also, some more interesting reading:
What are the UK’s options outside the European Union?

I have also posted some links to how the draft renegotiations could be implemented in law in a post on the Referendum thread here.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by ryuzaki » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:36 am

Switzerland is a good example of what the UK will be like outside the EU. They are not allowed to sell most financial products into the EU because they don't follow EU rules. They tried to negotiate something, but the EU just said "sign our rules or go away".

That may be the best outcome for us. The EU takes a hard line, doesn't give much away, and rejects these changes to immigration rules.

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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by secret.simon » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:52 am

ryuzaki wrote:The EU takes a hard line, doesn't give much away,
Actually, that is no true. The Danes and the Irish both got important concessions from the EU after rejecting treaties in 1992 and 2001 respectively.

It is not improbable that if the UK were to vote to leave the EU, the EU would concede far more to keep its third largest member in.

And it is not just the UK that is hardening its stance against free movement of migrants within the EU. The Visegard group of countries are threatening to seal off the EU from Greece, if Greece and Turkey do not manage the flow of migrants among themselves.

And while not related to the EU itself, the mood against immigration seems to be souring worldwide, with countries seeming to take the wider cost of individual migrants into account.

This just in from New Zealand: Prestigious academic to quit New Zealand after autistic son refused residency
Immigration New Zealand said in a statement that Peter was deemed to require “continuous, structured residential care”.

“All migrants are required to have an acceptable standard of health so as not to impose undue costs and/or demands on New Zealand’s health and/or special education services,” the agency said.
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Re: Non-EEA spouses excluded from EEA-route under EU-UK deal

Post by Petaltop » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:27 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Petaltop wrote:It's not only the migrant problems, but the reverberations for the EU from Brexit.
It is interesting to note that both countries are relatively wealthy nations within the EU with their wealth primarily drawn from being the base for financial institutions and services and not from manufacturing, which could benefit from cheap labour moving about the EU. That may be construed as a possible cause of the opposition to free movement of labour.

Two countries walking out on the same principle will flag to the EU that however much it is a key principle for the six founding members in the 1960s, it may not be workable now in an EU of 28 member-states or an EEA of 32.
That's some interesting reading there Simon.

How do you think Germany will cope with losing it's biggest trading partner if the UK leave?

When is it "kick the can (debt) down the road" time again for Greece? And Italy too this time it seems? Spain must be hanging on by a thread.

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