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Post Brexit Discussion

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

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Amber
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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by Amber » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:41 pm

There is no race war, a few people making dearly beloved comments doesn't speak for 17 million.
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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by O_Relly » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:11 pm

Obie wrote:
Children being told they need to go home, people in hijab being told we are going to send you is Isis.

Situation is bad. Having won, a proportion of the Vote leave people have decided to take laws into their own hand.
This is exactly what is very worrying and very surprising at the same time! What was seemingly a tolerant, friendly and welcoming place for hard working contributing immigrant (the question of skilled/unskilled is non-differential now) population, suddenly is reporting such incidents at what appears to be "a flick of a light switch" result of the referendum ? !!

I and my friends/family have had the privilege and good fortune to work and live in friendly and welcoming local communities in the 5+ years we have lived in the UK. So, obviously the intention is not to generalize just by a few incidents (10 s ?) , but surely this can't be brushed aside just because the numbers aren't huge ?

Immigration is just one aspect of the referendum, but unfortunately a section (albeit how small) of the voters appear to have mis-understood that the referendum was all about only that !

To me it doesn't matter if they were leave or remain voters! It's just sad to see the outcome of the referendum is reflecting like this.

Anyway, onwards and hopefully it all unfolds for the betterment of the UK, Europe, EU, whatever...

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by lurli » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:40 pm

Funny how some immigrants, who perhaps after becoming British citizen feel very entitled, and consider themselves so British that they think of themselves as becoming an inseparable part of the British culture. Fact is you are all viewed in the same way as a refugee in the eyes of the true British people, and if and when they begin to lynch anyone with foreign looks, you can be assured that they would not be asking you for your status before they lynch the goofy out of you lots.

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by Obie » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:03 pm

Even some famous sellers are going through buyers remourse now , sad.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/k ... 3?w51dobt9
Seasons greetings to everyone and a prosperous 2020

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by Richard W » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:30 pm

I think we're heading for enough evidence of swallowed lies and misunderstandings to dismiss the referendum as invalid.

1) In so far as we can understand the pronouncements, there was no intention of removing lawfully present immigrants - but many seemed to assume that would be the effect. It's not just the xenophobic actions that are evidence, but also the fears of East European immigrants.

2) Even if there were such an intention, it would have little effect on South Asian or Moslem immigrants. Or have I underestimated the number of ethnically non-European immigrants in the UK who have benefited from the EU Free Movement regulations? Some people seem to have thought they were voting to get rid of 'all' immigrants. Perhaps the UKIP posters of Syrian refugees are to blame.

3) Some leading Brexiteers are now speaking as though the only effect on immigration would be the exclusion of those who would be excluded under public policy, most notably criminals.

4) People didn't understand the riskiness of a protest vote.

5) The '£350m' a week for the NHS.

I wonder how many 'leave' voters thought we were heading for the Norwegian model. I must admit I thought the examples of Norway and Switzerland given by the 'Leave' side were dishonest, but perhaps they honestly meant them.

It bothers me that 'control of our borders' should have been seen as code for 'chucking out immigrants'. Euphemism has made phrases too hard to interpret.

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by avjones » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:43 pm

Richard W wrote:I think we're heading for enough evidence of swallowed lies and misunderstandings to dismiss the referendum as invalid.
I think that would be absolutely wrong. It's impossible to say what people had in mind when they voted, but 1.3 million votes as a margin is a definite decision, if not an overwhelming one.

If someone now says, "I voted leave, because I was mislead about xxxx" how on earth do you know if they are telling the truth about whether they even voted "leave"? You can't. Nor can you know that they were mislead. And certainly, you can't extrapolate from that

Above all, all the things people are *now* saying (not including you) about how the Referendum should have required a certain turnout, or that it ought to have a majority of X %, or that Parliament ought to ignore the result, or have a General Election / Second Ref, any of that, it's just too late. All of those things were set out in the European Union Referendum Act 2015, which was passed with a large majority in Parliament.

It's a deeply dangerous idea, too, to decide somehow that the electorate "didn't mean it". What on earth do we say next time some maniac narrowly loses an election in some nasty part of the world, and he decides that the voting public was "misinformed" and that it needs to be "dismissed as invalid". We'd be setting an absolutely appalling precedent.

Nothing that was said that people are now describing as lies / misunderstandings etc happened only at the time of the referendum. The time for challenge of ANY kind was before the result was announced.
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People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by vinny » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:20 pm

avjones wrote:It's a deeply dangerous idea, too, to decide somehow that the electorate "didn't mean it". What on earth do we say next time some maniac narrowly loses an election in some nasty part of the world, and he decides that the voting public was "misinformed" and that it needs to be "dismissed as invalid". We'd be setting an absolutely appalling precedent.

Nothing that was said that people are now describing as lies / misunderstandings etc happened only at the time of the referendum. The time for challenge of ANY kind was before the result was announced.
What if the winning campaigners said - "didn't mean it"?

It may be an even more dangerous precedent to allow a victorious side to win when they admitted misinforming the public after the referendum result was announced.

For example, a pledge to spend £350 million of European Union cash on the NHS after Brexit was apparently admitted to be a "mistake" after the referendum result was announced.

I'm surprised that there seems to be no adequate safeguards against false statements that the voters may have relied on. Compare this to the Immigration rules. Under 320(7B), applicants making false statements may be banned from entering the UK for at least 10 years.

If a side is able to make promises or statements which later turns out to be false, then this appears to be a mockery of democracy.
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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by Obie » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:58 pm

It really sad.

Prior to Election I will look at what is on offer on the menu, know what policies different sides hold, study them well and make a choice.

It was clear that leave never had a viable policy from which one can make an informed choice. It was clear fraud from the outset.

These people were told by expert who are professional in their fields that Vote leave views and policies don't add up , but they went for them . Now we are in this position.

Now Johnson said Brits will continue to live, work , buy home and settle in Europe. Clearly he will not be delusional to think these people will not be able to do the same in th UK.

These people have taken these people for a Mug .

Told them we will stop Syrian, when the number of Syrian refugee is far less than in mainland UK.

Now we are where we are. People being attacked, homes and cultural centres bein vandalised.


We are really in perilious times, whiless Johnson was saying this evening that everything is stabilise.

I personally believe there wI'll be a problem in the UK if the views of these 51.8 people is not effected.

They have to taste the effect of leave. Many people have always been told by tories that EU is a disease, a cancer, a cash drainer, it needs to be cut off, that German is not going to stop trading to us, they need us more than we need them..This crisis will probably open their eyes to reality.

I believe many EU states are possibly relieved to see one of their most ackward member go.
Seasons greetings to everyone and a prosperous 2020

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by noajthan » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:20 am

This sad state of affairs (that has, arguably, turned into a wholesale betrayal of Athenian-style ideals of people power and the voice and will of the people) may quite possibly only be remedied by one of the most undemocratic and reactionary institutions we have, namely Parliament;
the British electorate could be saved from themselves if Parliament collectively refuses to facilitate and enact the UK exit.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by Obie » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:38 am

These politician will pay a heavy price at the polls if they did that. It will lead to riots .

These people like their jobs and status. They may not do that. Although if things continue like this and we see this continued pattern of buyers and sellers remorse, then the deal implemented may be closer to what we have, but at present UK is leaving the EU and only Article 50 stands between uk and the EU..
Seasons greetings to everyone and a prosperous 2020

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by DFDS. » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:42 am

lurli wrote:Funny how some immigrants, who perhaps after becoming British citizen feel very entitled, and consider themselves so British that they think of themselves as becoming an inseparable part of the British culture. Fact is you are all viewed in the same way as a refugee in the eyes of the true British people, and if and when they begin to lynch anyone with foreign looks, you can be assured that they would not be asking you for your status before they lynch the goofy out of you lots.
Can moderators get rid of this please? Whoever you refer to yourself "lurli", grow up!
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by Casa » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:35 am

lurli wrote:Funny how some immigrants, who perhaps after becoming British citizen feel very entitled, and consider themselves so British that they think of themselves as becoming an inseparable part of the British culture. Fact is you are all viewed in the same way as a refugee in the eyes of the true British people, and if and when they begin to lynch anyone with foreign looks, you can be assured that they would not be asking you for your status before they lynch the goofy out of you lots.
lurli you're already on 'thin ice'. I suggest you desist from posting further ignorant and distasteful comments like this if you want to remain on the forum. It won't be tolerated.
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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by vinny » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:22 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by vinny » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:46 am

Perhaps the leave campaigners should have focused more on this?
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Re: Post Brexit Discussion

Post by Amber » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:12 am

If the conversation continues as it is, not only will other threads be locked but this entire forum area will be locked.

If you attack or bash a Moderator you will be banned.
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