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UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

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secret.simon
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UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:03 pm

UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

I would advise caution for planning any visits abroad in the last two weeks of October and the following few months, especially for people in the UK on the EEA Routes (including Surinder Singh and Zambrano routes). Things may move very fast and they may have issues with returning to the UK.

And my working assumption would be a No Deal Brexit.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Zerubbabel
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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:09 pm

I spoke with an Immigration Officer in Ireland (ROI) and I asked him specifically about non-EU citizens travelling with EEA Family Members cards.

He said that they are waiting for official instructions but as they are getting close to the October 31st, it will become critical. These card issued in the UK under EEA regulations may suddenly cease to be valid in EU countries.

Even if I promised to not to do it again, I am traveling for a few days to Ireland with my wife in September (she has EEA Permanent Residence). That would be our last trip under that scheme as she will apply for citizenship as soon as we are back.

I agree that in the weeks leading to the Brexit and after, you have to be cautious if you travel on these cards.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by bamby322 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:51 am

What about non eu citizen pre booked the holidays and are going with their eu family abroad. :?

If both of them (Non eu citizen with eu wife) have got their pre settle status and settle status? :(

I have got my UK resident card and pre settle status too?

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:59 am

If your trip is planed far ahead, just go and apply for a Schengen visa to avoid disappointment. Because if we crash with no deal on October 31st as the news seem to indicate, they can give a brutal halt to freedom of circulation in both directions.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by bamby322 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:42 am

I don't need visa as i am going to visit my back home country with my wife (Eu Citizen).

Our return date to the UK is 2nd Nov 2019. I am just confused but hope Govt will draw the possible polices soon as there could be a lot of people in millions coming back from holidays or business trips!

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by mkhan2525 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:33 pm

EU law still applies to the UK until Brexit day and there should be no problem as long as the return is before 31st October. I hope this will be the case as we have a planned holiday to Portugal at the end of September and Mrs is relying on her EU residence card for entry.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 pm

mkhan2525 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:33 pm
EU law still applies to the UK until Brexit day and there should be no problem as long as the return is before 31st October. I hope this will be the case as we have a planned holiday to Portugal at the end of September and Mrs is relying on her EU residence card for entry.
Same here, we are traveling to EU in September. It will be last time we do it. Even early October we won't try in case they receive instructions to stop letting people in.

At one point they will do it and it will be possibly before 10/31. Because if they allow someone on 10/31, the next day that person is illegal in the EU. So they might start enforcing the rules before.

But bamby322 is going to his home country and will be back to the UK. So I don't think this issue would be a concern for him as he doesn't seem going to EEA.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by bamby322 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:13 am

I think there would not be any problem even after Oct 2019 as the set deadline is Dec 2020 incase of No Deal.

The govt is only scaremongering the people across the both channels and trying to put the pressure on EU to renegotiate the Brexit deal.

No one is above the law and the govt policy clearly states on Homeoffice website

" If the UK leaves the EU without a deal
You will need to be living in the UK before it leaves the EU to apply. The deadline for applying will be 31 December 2020."

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:51 am

But it seems that there are massive discrepancies between what Theresa May said / promised and what Boris Johnson is doing at the moment.

I have no idea where we are going.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by bamby322 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:47 am

I agreed with you Zerubbabel,

The question is if he want to do something different than what ex PM has improved in the past,
He will need to pass the bill in the house of common which means he will face a big failure and if he try to by pass the bill then he will face constitution crisis. So it will be interesting to see this govt will dare to repeat an another scandal like windrush and hope it will be a knockdown game for them. finger crossed!

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by bamby322 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 am

By the way, I have found this news and it was last updated on 15 August.

It explains the govt policy about the Eu nationals and their family legal status and it cleary states in the

bottom what we were discussing above,



" Deal or no deal, EU citizens and their family members will have until at least 31 December 2020 to apply. The figure of one million people having been granted status has been obtained from internal management information and is not part of the published statistics. "

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/one- ... ent-scheme

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by kamoe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:07 pm

bamby322 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:13 am
I think there would not be any problem even after Oct 2019 as the set deadline is Dec 2020 incase of No Deal.
This deadline refers to one being legally in the UK. Doesn't say anything about attempting entry back into the UK (and being admitted).

This is similar to the advice given when a non-EU family member of a EU citizen loses their EEA RC: the official notice says it is not necessary to replace it, and one will not not be penalized for not replacing it. This is all fine and good if you never leave the UK. But obviously, if you want to travel abroad you need it to come back in. They don't say this. Up to you to deduce the obviousness of it.
The govt is only scaremongering the people across the both channels and trying to put the pressure on EU to renegotiate the Brexit deal.
Now, onto serious and logical things: Not sure what the Government is doing.

To end free movement they will need to, for instance, block all e-gates at international airports from accepting EU passports. Is this feasible? Maybe. But even if this is doable, I cannot imagine the size of the immigration queues at Heathrow, where they are able to manage EU queues of people that don't use e-gates (usually families with children and non-EU family members) only because there is absolutely no check necessary for these people besides showing their passport or EEA card, average time per person is less than 30 seconds. This queue can easily be three times the size of the international queue, but moves faster. With free-movement gone, I imagine the average time on the Eu queue will double/triple, maybe more, if not stall at all. There will be thousands of EU people with no physical proof that they are settled/pre-settled in the UK (I'm reasonably assuming only a handful actually have a blue EEA PR or QP card and only a fraction of these would actually come prepared to show it). A simple half-day trial of no e-gates and any kind of checking the EU queue will be sufficient enough to prove this is not sustainable, at all.

In my opinion, complete nonsense. And yes, I agree it's best to avoid being part of that first day hell of a trial.
My posts express my personal opinion, formed with the best of my knowledge, about the topics discussed in this forum. They do not constitute immigration advice.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by kamoe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:10 pm

Update email from the HO today (not surprisingly completely avoiding the central issue of border control):


21 August 2019


This is the latest information on the EU Settlement Scheme for EU citizens living in the UK. You are receiving this because you have requested email updates from the UK Government.

Update on the EU Settlement Scheme

There have been reports in the media and on social media regarding plans to end freedom of movement after we leave the EU, as well as what this means for EU citizens resident in the UK.

We want to reassure all EU citizens and their family members in the UK that you still have until at least 31 December 2020 to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme, even in the event of a no-deal exit. Furthermore, if someone who is eligible for status is not in the UK when we leave the EU, they will still be free to enter the UK as they are now.

Those who have not yet applied to the EU Settlement Scheme by 31 October 2019 will still have the same entitlements to work, benefits and services. Those rights will not change. EU citizens will continue to be able to prove their rights to access these benefits and services in the same way as they do now.

Further details can be found in our free movement factsheet, but please feel free to contact us in writing by clicking here.

Kind regards,


Home Office Communications
My posts express my personal opinion, formed with the best of my knowledge, about the topics discussed in this forum. They do not constitute immigration advice.

kamoe
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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by kamoe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 pm

To the above, I just sent the below as follow up question using their suggested method of contact:
My EU partner and I have received Settled and Pre-Settled status respectively. I have just received an update from the Home Office regarding the end of free movement that offers little clarity on the provisions regarding border controls after October 31st.

One one hand, it states that deadline for applying for Settled Status is at least December 2020, and that people not having applied by October 31st still are entitled to the same benefits and services. It does not address, however, what happens at UK border controls if these citizens travel abroad before they have a status. Both the email circulated today and the Media factsheet published earlier this week deliberately avoid this question, which is a central point of concern for EU citizens.

The factsheet, also says that "EU citizens will still be able to come to the UK on holiday and for short trips, but what will change is the arrangements for people coming to the UK for longer periods of time and for work and study." Again, the obvious question of how are border control officials going to make the difference between EU holidaymakers and UK residents is also absent. Are the e-gates at UK airports going to be able to tell the difference between EU nationals having applied and obtained a status, and those who haven't? If so, are EU holidaymakers not going to be allowed through e-gates anymore? Last but not least, what provisions are in place to guarantee that queues on the officer-staffed EU queue (used by EU families with children and non-EU family members) do not become a bottleneck? Processing times in this queue are usually less than 30 seconds, because currently there is no differentiation between holidaymakers and residents. How will the government guarantee the its speedy processing?

Bottom line is, no adequate information pack is currently available anywhere that explains this in detail. No wonder " inaccurate reporting" are spreading across the media. There is room for it.
I encourage anyone to do likewise.
My posts express my personal opinion, formed with the best of my knowledge, about the topics discussed in this forum. They do not constitute immigration advice.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by bamby322 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:34 pm

Hello Kamoe,

Thank you for your swift response and brief reply.

It is really very helpful advise, especially to read the Home Office media facesheet.

Btw, What is Home Office media facesheet url address so i can bookmark it to get an updates?

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by kamoe » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:04 pm

bamby322 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:34 pm
It is really very helpful advise, especially to read the Home Office media facesheet.

Btw, What is Home Office media facesheet url address so i can bookmark it to get an updates?
Since the url to the factsheet is linked on the quoted message above, and since you seem to have read it, I take you mean how to subscribe to their email update list? For that, use this form.
My posts express my personal opinion, formed with the best of my knowledge, about the topics discussed in this forum. They do not constitute immigration advice.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by The Station Agent » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:40 pm

Your original post is fine; don't want to contradict that at all.

But if EU nationals were really to be subject to work visas, CoS, etc. as of November 1, I find it hard to believe there are systems in place to deal with that.

For example; adding EU nationals into the countries who need work permission to work here would add to the workload of the border staff, to UKVI, and to employers (sponsors). The CoS (Certificate of Sponsorship) system is already creaking under tens of thousands of sponsors (a far higher number than UKVI expected when the system was introduced in 2008). Thousands, or tens of thousands, more sponsors would need to get licensed, or request higher CoS allocations before November 1, in order to employ EU nationals. UKVI told me in a meeting that they don't have the systems in place, or coding of their websites etc., to deal with EU nationals needing CoS and work visas - in their words it would take until mid-2020 to put the infrastructure in place. That's why the transition period was required.

Secondly, EU nationals currently routinely use the E-gates. Employers will struggle to know whether an EU national was here before October 31 or not; because they don't have a passport stamp to prove it. Unless they have settled status they will be in a kind of limbo. I can't see EU nationals being treated the same as non-EU (work permission-wise anyway) from day one.......it's not going to be practical. I think it's the current PM trying to play hard-ball without really appreciating the technical minutiae.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:08 pm

I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by Obie » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:16 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:03 pm
UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

I would advise caution for planning any visits abroad in the last two weeks of October and the following few months, especially for people in the UK on the EEA Routes (including Surinder Singh and Zambrano routes). Things may move very fast and they may have issues with returning to the UK.

And my working assumption would be a No Deal Brexit.
I understand your sincerety and your desire to protect the interest of forum members, but I am not convince what the government is saying on this is right or hold water.

The nonsense that the government has been saying are for political purpose. There are no legal basis to it. The Tories thrive on chaos, disorder and fear. They must be seen to be antagonising migrant, instilling fear into EU national, making them feel vulnerable, be seen to be showing hostility to anything EU related.

For the avoidance of doubt FREE Movement cannot end on the 31-10-2019 without a primary legislation, as the law to facilitate that has not yet come into effect. Free Movement was originally protected by the EU treaties and the Immigration Act 1988. Section 8 of the EU withdrawal Act 2018 provided for secondary legislation for minor matters, is not intended for major policy change, it scope was far lesser. If the government uses it to bring in Secondary legislation to End Free Movement, then the matter will almost certainly enter the court for a declaration that it is ultra vires.

Therefore the protection that was moved from the 1988 Immigration act and transfered into section 2-4 of the withdrawal Act 2018 from exit day, will continue to be in place until primary legislation is implemented to end free movement.

As this coward of a government is frightened to bring legislation before Parliament, it is unlikely that the nonsense they are talking about ending free movement on 31-10, "come what may" , "do or die" , will never standup to reality. It is simple political posturing. I have really stopped listening to this autocratic government.
Seasons greetings to everyone and a prosperous 2020

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Re: UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:33 pm

Obie wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:16 pm
There are no legal basis to it.
And you were right.

Steve Peers: Sunday Times reporting that government plans re newly arriving EU citizens in the UK post Brexit day are postponed for legal reasons

Couldn't find the article on the Sunday Times website though.
Obie wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:16 pm
I understand your sincerety and your desire to protect the interest of forum members
I work on the principle of an abundance of caution :D
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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