UK residence card for my son

Hi,
I'm french and married with an NZ woman. But we are now separated and she's in NZ and I'm left in UK with the baby who is born in NZ.
what document do I need to apply for a residence card for him ?

Assuming that your child is also French, then there is no real value in applying for a Residence Certificate for him. He doesn't really need one.

Jambo wrote:Assuming that your child is also French, then there is no real value in applying for a Residence Certificate for him. He doesn't really need one.

I have sent a transcription of his NZ birth certificate at the french embassy in NZ, and I'm waiting for their documents.
So at the moment he only has his NZ passport with which he came with me and his mother to the UK, and a NZ birth certificate showing my name as the father.
My concern is that he came under tourist immigration rules, meaning that his NZ passport has been stamped with a permit to stay until october unless I apply for another form of visa or document (eea family permit, residence card, etc).
Now with the change of my circumstances and him being dependant on me as a lone parent, I am wondering if he'll able to stay with me until all required documents are produced.

I would not worry too much. Unless you need to travel outside the UK, just wait for the birth to be registered with the French authorities and get him a French passport. There is no need to inform the HO once he is registered as French.

Jambo wrote:I would not worry too much. Unless you need to travel outside the UK, just wait for the birth to be registered with the French authorities and get him a French passport. There is no need to inform the HO once he is registered as French.

Ok, I understand. However I'm not in contact with the mother anymore and the divorce has not been filed yet as we have to wait for 2 years after the celebration of the NZ mariage (January 2012). "you must be separated for two years before you can have a dissolution"
So at the moment I think we are still considered married, but we are living separately.

So will I need to obtain the agreement of the NZ mother to apply for a french passport for him ?

What passport does the child have right now? Are you listed on the birth certificate as the father?

Are you working in the UK? How long have you lived there?

Your child can remain forever with you in the UK and you do not have to do anything. Applying for a Residence Card is 100% optional in the UK.

Also it is likely your child is already French. I am not sure why you are dealing with the French embassy in NZ. Easier to deal with the one in London. They should be able to sort you out for a Passport/ID card/Children's ID. But again it does not really matter if the child gets these any time soon.

Note that you can also get divorced in the UK. It can be the country where either of the partners is resident.

Directive asked: What passport does the child have right now?

Famky had said: "he only has his NZ passport"


Directive asked: Are you listed on the birth certificate as the father?

Famky had said: "a NZ birth certificate showing my name as the father."

Directive asked:

Are you working in the UK?

How long have you lived there?

I see. Thank you.
The child has a NZ passport.
I'm listed on the birth certificate as the father.
I am on jobseeker allowance until I start my new job mid october (awaiting for my mandatory security industry licence (SIA) to practice to be sent to me before signing the job contract)
I have worked previously in Northern Ireland for 3 months back in 2008 and now living in UK since May 2011.
I had to deal with the French NZ embassy because the competent embassy is the one in the country where the child is born.
For the divorce, I have been told that it is only the tribunal in NZ that can deal with the matter since it is the country where it has been celebrated...? If that information is wrong, then I'll wait until my situation is settled for my son and myself before applying for it.

Famky wrote:I had to deal with the French NZ embassy because the competent embassy is the one in the country where the child is born.

Interesting. The French embassy in London told you this? Each country has its own odd ways of dealing with the formalities of citizenship...

Famky wrote:For the divorce, I have been told that it is only the tribunal in NZ that can deal with the matter since it is the country where it has been celebrated...? If that information is wrong, then I'll wait until my situation is settled for my son and myself before applying for it.

I am no expert in divorce, but I suspect that in most cases it is where either person is resident. They could not expect you to divorce in NZ if you were both living in different European countries, as an example... Would just not make sense.

I read that usually a person is able to raise a divorce action if they are resident in that country.

I knew someone who got married in the USA but petitioned for divorce in the UK, because they were living in the UK at the time of the divorce action. Their spouse was in the USA.

Scots Law and the rest of the UK divorce laws are different.

It is more complicated, and even more costly, when children are involved, as the court's first consideration will be the best welfare of the child.

Usually the jurisdiction of the divorce proceedings are decided on the basis of who petitions first for divorce.

If the divorce is likely to be acrimonious or has issues, then it would probably be more advantageous to raise the divorce action first.

If your wife raises the divorce action in NZ, you could face the situation of needing a solicitor to represent you in the UK, who will then have to deal with lawyers who represent you in NZ, so you are paying for 2 lawyers.

Then again, maybe NZ divorce law is simpler. I have no idea.

http://www.lawpack.co.uk/separation-and ... em4799.asp

Yes it is the french embassy in London who told me this.
I agree it is impossible that I have to go to NZ for it but that's what a sollicitor told when I was seeking legal aid.
Ok, I will then consider to file the divorce meanwhile as soon as I can.

I'm facing a new problem now :
This is an update of the situation
1* I have asked for a birth certificate transcription to the french embassy in NZ => they asked me for the marriage certificate to be transcripted first because the child is born within the marriage. They will then issue a family book and proceed to the transcription of the marriage + birth

2* I have sent my request of transcription of the marriage certificate to the french embassy in NZ => they ask me now for the divorce decision from the previous marriage of my wife (she had divorced few months before our mariage and it appears on the marriage certificate) to ensure there is no bigamy on her side.

I have called earlier today the french embassy in UK to explain that I go through a separation and divorce and that I have no way of collaboration with my wife, in order to receive advices.
They told me that the divorce decision that will come from my marriage could be added later and that I only need to carry on with my request.

I remember the bigamy check has been done prior to our Marriage ceremony in NZ when we made the appointement for our marriage celebration, and I know my wife has discarded the decision of divorce paper.

I have said that I don't have her divorce paper and they asked me for her to send it. I'm affraid the french embassy in NZ won't proceed until my wife faxes them the decision of divorce from her previous marriage.
Which will not happen.

I have contacted the NZ Registry Office where the bigamy check has been made in order for them to produce a proof that the check has been made, or for them to contact the french embassy in any ways to confirm it. Unfortunately, they told me that the Ministry of Justice is in charge of divorce matter and that they don't keep anything in their system.

So, I've asked the Ministry of Justice in NZ to obtain a copy of the decision, but they say that it has to be her to submit this request at the NZ Court where she got previously divorced.

Ouch. Being caught in relationship related bureaucratic hell....

I do not know if this is an option or if this will make it better, but can you register your child as a french citizen in France? Will that be an easier process? If you are IN France, I doubt they will force you to make it through the NZ embassy. It may be that it is a simpler process. You may have to temporarily register an address (temporarily "live" with your parents or friends) in France.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Ouch. Being caught in relationship related bureaucratic hell....

I do not know if this is an option or if this will make it better, but can you register your child as a french citizen in France? Will that be an easier process? If you are IN France, I doubt they will force you to make it through the NZ embassy. It may be that it is a simpler process. You may have to temporarily register an address (temporarily "live" with your parents or friends) in France.

...

I was curious about your situation and so emailed the NZ justice system and here is their response:

"If the divorce/dissolution was in New Zealand the records would be held with the Family Court, however as a non-party to the file you will not have a natural right to search the Court records.

If you were married in New Zealand you would have been required to produce evidence of the previous divorce/dissolution when filing your Notice of Intended Marriage.

In is the case then the correct contact would be Births, Deaths and Marriages at Internal Affairs who would be able to provide a copy of your Marriage certificate (on which details of previous divorce/dissolution should appear).

The link to Internal Affairs, Births, Deaths and Marriages in below:
http://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Births- ... enDocument

Kind regards"

nonspecifics wrote:I was curious about your situation and so emailed the NZ justice system and here is their response:

"If the divorce/dissolution was in New Zealand the records would be held with the Family Court, however as a non-party to the file you will not have a natural right to search the Court records.

If you were married in New Zealand you would have been required to produce evidence of the previous divorce/dissolution when filing your Notice of Intended Marriage.

In is the case then the correct contact would be Births, Deaths and Marriages at Internal Affairs who would be able to provide a copy of your Marriage certificate (on which details of previous divorce/dissolution should appear).

The link to Internal Affairs, Births, Deaths and Marriages in below:
http://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Births- ... enDocument

Kind regards"

Hi everyone, I hope my case will help others in their issues.
What you said was right, the previous mariage dissolution decision had been shown on the day we applied for an intended marriage at the Registrar office, and we wouldn't have been able to celebrate the mariage without this proof of decision.
It was a requirement for them in order to receive our booking for the celebration.
So yes, an original certificate of marriage issued by Births, Deaths and Marriages at Internal Affairs and with the detail of the previous dissolution is enough to prove the validity of the marriage.
My case is solved and thanks to all of you guyz for your precious help.