My son and "she" are the EEAs.But not me...

Can some1 help me ?

Well, my scenario is really out of usuall scope and after several weeks
googling and googling...I'm giving up and it's time to start to bother
someone.Sorry to bother.

Me, 37 years old, experienced software engineer living in Brazil , I
support my whole family and my wife don't need to work because my salary is enough for me, her and our 4 years old son.

And she and my son, both EEA citizens (Hungary) .We want to live in Europe,specially in Ireland because the market of IT is missing ppl with my profile and this will be good to me, my family and for the economy of
Ireland with some how.

However as I said..we live all in Brazil and we are not exercing treaty
rights becase we don't live in europe.Yes, we can move to Ireland, but only my wife will be able to work because she is the EEA citizen, not me.This is bad because she is subject to grab a job from someone that's really need to feed himself.Second objection is: I can easy find a job in any country because I am experienced software engineer.But she never worked anywhere else before and considering the high level of unemployment sounds like something impossible for us.

What we are supposed to do ? Any hint ?

ty in advance !

You are 100% in the usual scope.

Your wife is an EU citizen from Hungary. You can move together to any EU member state (except initially Hungary).

She can either work or, if she has enough money, can be self sufficient. What she does is the important thing.

And you can work if you want.

You do not need to already live in Europe. As soon as you arrive you have these rights.

Are you Brazilian?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You are 100% in the usual scope.

Your wife is an EU citizen from Hungary. You can move together to any EU member state (except initially Hungary).

She can either work or, if she has enough money, can be self sufficient. What she does is the important thing.

And you can work if you want.

You do not need to already live in Europe. As soon as you arrive you have these rights.

Are you Brazilian?

Yes, I am Brazilian and TYVM !!!

Btw...She don't have money because usually I work and my salary is enough for me , her and our 5 years old son.She never supported me - Always I supported her and I hope to keep this scenario as it seems.

I read that she need to perform your threaty rights or be self-sufficient.That's my concern.

My plan is: Move to Ireland and work there while my wife stay at home.In other words: Just me will be the jobseeker and after all, just me will be responsible for household incomings.

Understand my concern ? Govern say that the EEU citizen must be perfirming his threat rights or be self sufficient to support the non EEA family member

I submitted this question for UKBA and there they solved my question..check this...

"Spouse means "wife or husband"and the rules regarding the EEA Family Permit does not require the EEA National to be financially responsible for the dependant.
If you need further clarification about immigration rules, please contact the Office of Immigration Services-OISC at www.oisc.gov.uk where you can find a list of qualified immigration advisers."

Thank you again for contacting WorldBridge.

Very sincerely yours,

WorldBridge Service

Not that it matters, but are you planning to go to Ireland or the UK?

So from a strict legal perspective, it is the EU citizen who is the key one. They can work. Or they can be self sufficient.

Self sufficient can be from whatever sources the EU citizen wants to rely on. It can be their savings from working previously, or from rich Aunt Milly, or from money their non-EU spouse makes from working.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Not that it matters, but are you planning to go to Ireland or the UK?

So from a strict legal perspective, it is the EU citizen who is the key one. They can work. Or they can be self sufficient.

Self sufficient can be from whatever sources the EU citizen wants to rely on. It can be their savings from working previously, or from rich Aunt Milly, or from money their non-EU spouse makes from working.

Ohhh !!! Now I really got the point !!!! TYVM !!!!!

The EU citizen is better off if they indicate that they are working.

They do this by registering as self employed. Is there any type of self employement that you could do as a couple? (You could have a full time job yourself as well).

If you and your wife were able to design websites on a self employed basis, this chould be registered as the work and income of your wife. This gives her the rights of an EU migrant worker (work includes self employment).

It is not strictly necessary, but it gives your wife rights to things like maternity benefit (money to female workers who give birth to a child, paid to the mother only if she is working). It also means that she is contributing to an old age pension scheme in her own right, so it can be useful. It may also mean paying less tax, as her tax free allowances can be applied to the income from self employment.

Brigid from Ireland wrote:The EU citizen is better off if they indicate that they are working.

They do this by registering as self employed. Is there any type of self employement that you could do as a couple? (You could have a full time job yourself as well).

If you and your wife were able to design websites on a self employed basis, this chould be registered as the work and income of your wife. This gives her the rights of an EU migrant worker (work includes self employment).

It is not strictly necessary, but it gives your wife rights to things like maternity benefit (money to female workers who give birth to a child, paid to the mother only if she is working). It also means that she is contributing to an old age pension scheme in her own right, so it can be useful. It may also mean paying less tax, as her tax free allowances can be applied to the income from self employment.

Yep...I tought something like this...I can "hire" my own wife and pay a salary to take care of my son So, she pay the taxes and it's done

Or as you said...Well, she is good with photoshop

My only concern is: We don't have intention to grab a job from someone that's really need a job to support your family just to accomplish government rules.It's not fair with Irish people.

We want to move to a place and contribute, not take.

Brigid from Ireland wrote:They do this by registering as self employed. Is there any type of self employement that you could do as a couple? (You could have a full time job yourself as well).

If you and your wife were able to design websites on a self employed basis, this chould be registered as the work and income of your wife. This gives her the rights of an EU migrant worker (work includes self employment).

It is not strictly necessary, but it gives your wife rights to things like maternity benefit (money to female workers who give birth to a child, paid to the mother only if she is working). It also means that she is contributing to an old age pension scheme in her own right, so it can be useful. It may also mean paying less tax, as her tax free allowances can be applied to the income from self employment.

What exactly are the requirements for applying for a Residence Card as a self employed in Ireland?

I'm Irish. I have worked as an employee and as a self employed person.

With regard to the self employment, it was as simple as phoning the revenue (tax) office, and asking them to send me out the self assessment form. The tax office sends you this form, you fill in your details of worldwide income and assets, and post it back to them. You can do it yourself for the cost of a postage stamp, or pay an accountant. Obviously if you earn money you will also get a tax bill, in respect of the income from self employment.

Your wife should declare sufficient income to ensure that she is required to pay prsi - this starts her old age pension and covers her for maternity benefit.

If you hold an EU passport, the only difference is that you would also need to go to the social welfare office and get a pps number (you are entitled to one of these free of charge, there are some requirements like having a passport/birth cert, and proof of address).

The spouse of an EU citizen can also get a pps number - you just apply at the same time as your EU citizen spouse. The child should also apply for a pps number - parents need a number for each child to claim child benefit money.

Brigid from Ireland wrote:I'm Irish. I have worked as an employee and as a self employed person.

With regard to the self employment, it was as simple as phoning the revenue (tax) office, and asking them to send me out the self assessment form. The tax office sends you this form, you fill in your details of worldwide income and assets, and post it back to them. You can do it yourself for the cost of a postage stamp, or pay an accountant. Obviously if you earn money you will also get a tax bill, in respect of the income from self employment.

Your wife should declare sufficient income to ensure that she is required to pay prsi - this starts her old age pension and covers her for maternity benefit.

If you hold an EU passport, the only difference is that you would also need to go to the social welfare office and get a pps number (you are entitled to one of these free of charge, there are some requirements like having a passport/birth cert, and proof of address).

The spouse of an EU citizen can also get a pps number - you just apply at the same time as your EU citizen spouse. The child should also apply for a pps number - parents need a number for each child to claim child benefit money.

So what about the proof requirements for applying for a Residence Card as the spouse of a self employed EU person?

This paragraph is taken from welfare.ie
'Pay Related Social Insurance (PRSI) for the self-employed was introduced in 1988. All self-employed people aged between 16 years and 66 with earnings more than a specified amount (currently €5,000 per annum) must pay PRSI. The class of PRSI contribution paid by self-employed people is Class S.

When you commence self-employment, you must first register for the self-assessment system with Revenue as a self-employed person. Under self-assessment, at the end of each tax year you will submit your annual end of year returns to Revenue who will assess your liability for income tax, PRSI and Health Levy based on the information supplied by you and any amounts owing are paid directly to Revenue.'

The sentence in bold basically means phone or e-mail revenue and tell them you are self employed. That is the sum total of the requirement. Obviously you also need to be an EU citizen or have a right to work in Ireland.

Revenue will then send you the paperwork - just complete it every year in October.

If you mean proof of employment - just keep a record of the work done and the money earned - you need this to pay tax anyway.

eg

1. Painted house at 4 O'Connel Street on 1/1/13 at €600 (cost of paint €50)
2.Rebuild garden wall for Mrs Smith 9 O'Connell street on 3/1/13 at €500 (cost of blocks/cement €250, profit €250).

Brigid,

That is helpful but does not answer my question.

What about the proof requirements for applying for a Residence Card as the spouse of a self employed EU person?

PS It is not a good idea to say you pay your wife to mind her own child - this is considered 'housekeeping money' not employment.

You could pay her to do your secretarial tasks/accounts if you are self employed, as these are not usuallly considered part of the wife/mother deal.

To the best of my knowledge, if the EU citizen registers as self employed with revenue, and keeps a record of their work from self employment, this is sufficient to allow the non-EU spouse to obtain a residence card. I am open to correction, but this is my opinion.

In addition, the original poster may have rights to work in Ireland under the Zambrano judgement - I am not sure if this applies, but he could check it out, as I assume the EU citizen child will travel with him. (I would advise getting the EU passport for both the wife and child, if possible).

Brigid from Ireland wrote:To the best of my knowledge, if the EU citizen registers as self employed with revenue, and keeps a record of their work from self employment, this is sufficient to allow the non-EU spouse to obtain a residence card. I am open to correction, but this is my opinion.

In addition, the original poster may have rights to work in Ireland under the Zambrano judgement - I am not sure if this applies, but he could check it out, as I assume the EU citizen child will travel with him. (I would advise getting the EU passport for both the wife and child, if possible).

ty so much Ok...I can put my wife to photoshop some images and get paid Sometimes I ask this to her but for free

Regarding Zambrano...nope...Can't invoke Zambrano.It's the 1st question of the FAQ at http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000038

That makes sense re Zambrano - the child has Hungarian citizenship, and does not have Irish citizenship.

Your wife could also get paid to mind other people's children in her own home - she would need to register with revenue for this, the first ten thousand she earned from this is tax free (she might not want to do this type of work, but it is an option).

The family needs to earn enough money to be over the welfare limit. This is currently 186 euro per week for husband, 125 for wife, 30 for each child. This amount could be from your work as an employee, your wife's self employment, or a mixture of both.

PS I would advise your wife to declare a minimum income of five thousand from self employment. It does not matter what type of self employment - IT, childminding, photoshopping... - but five thousand is the minimum needed to be contributing towards old age/maternity benefits.

That may not seem important now, but if she has another child/when she is retired, it may be important.

Brigid from Ireland wrote:PS I would advise your wife to declare a minimum income of five thousand from self employment. It does not matter what type of self employment - IT, childminding, photoshopping... - but five thousand is the minimum needed to be contributing towards old age/maternity benefits.

That may not seem important now, but if she has another child/when she is retired, it may be important.

Wait, Wait...We have plans to have another son this year or the next one.
So, she will need to pay a private hospital to have a baby ?

I hope Ireland is more cheap then USA....25k USD there to have a baby

Brigid from Ireland wrote:The family needs to earn enough money to be over the welfare limit. This is currently 186 euro per week for husband, 125 for wife, 30 for each child. This amount could be from your work as an employee, your wife's self employment, or a mixture of both.

This is not true.

Totally the opposite.

The cost of giving birth in a public hospital is free. (You can pay for private, but I don't recommend it, as public hospitals provide better medical care.)

Maternity benefit is money paid/given to employed or self employed women who give birth. They must have been employed or self employed for a certain period of time before becoming pregnant - rules are on welfare.ie This is why I am saying she should declare an income of at least five thousand from self employment - this is the minimum income needed to qualify for this money.

You also get child benefit - 130 euro/month.

Education is also free - you pay for uniform clothes and books and lunch.