Sponse VAF1 refused. Help

Hi my sponse had her VAF1 (non settlement) visa refused on the grouds that they didn't beleive 1) genuinely wanted to live with me in the UK and 2) she may overstay.

The reasons for this where she asked the interview to be in Russian but told them she talked to me in English. She told them her English was not that good. Although we talk on the phone for an hour or more every day and have phone records to prove this. She was being honest, but her English is actually good enough for him to understand her. I also know what words shes likely to know and not know. The interviewer asked her a question in English, she understood the sentence but not one word. Probably something like "what are your interets", she won't know "interests", but if i said to her "what do you like to do" she'd understand. She didn't submitt all the photos of our marriage (since she didn't think they would be needed and there were a lot!), which didn't help!! We were married and all her friends and family were present and know her and know she is genuine. She also has a 2 year old son in her country. We were planning on getting her a visa first and then applying for her son. She didn't know the name of the city i live in, although i've told her its an hour away from london (it doesn't been much to her as she hasn't lived here).

Basically she had a bad interview and was sick as well when it took place.

She also overstayed a visa 3 years ago. But it wasn't something she had control over and has changed since then. We were upfront about this in the interview.

There was no problem with accomodation or funds.

I've know her 3 years and visited her 7 times in the last 1 and 1/2 years.

Should we appeal or re-apply? how to prove she is genuine? Obviosuly photos of us, including marriage (also have a DVD of the marriage). What about letters from her and her family? Should i go to her country when she applies.

anyone have advice? Anyone been in this position before?

Thanks
Brett

Brett why is the application being made on form VAF1 for a visitor visa, rather than on VAF2 for a settlement visa?

Surely that is the problem here?

Hi John

I am on a UK ancestry visa

It might have been useful to say that.

Can you post the actual details .... the "reason(s) for rejection". It might be easier to comment upon the actual words of the ECO, rather than your interpretation of them.

We were planning on getting her a visa first and then applying for her son.

Why? Why not apply for both visas at the same time?

I am not satified on the balance of probabilities that you meet the Requirements of paragraph 194 in thr immgiration rules in particular

+ each of the parties intends to live with the other as his or her sponse or civil partners during the applications stay and the marriage subsisting

+ the applicant does not intend to stay in the UK beyond any period of leave granted to your sponse.

BECAUSE

You have stated that you wish to go to the UK to join your husband XXXX. I have taken into consideration the evidence your sponsor has submitted and i have no reason to doubt his intentions.

In the interview you have stated that you first met your husband in XXX in 2003. You have also admitted that you were working in XXXX illegally.

You have also stated that you met your husband on 7 occassions since you left XXX and that you communicate in English, however I have taken into consideration that you asked for the interview to be conducted in Russian with the aid of a translator an also that you were unable to understand simple questions put to you slowly in English. This undermines your overall credibility.

I have also taken into consideration that you were asked a few questions about your husbands life in the uk, but you know very little detail, including where he lived, what his hobbies and interests are. undermines your overall credibility.

In view of the above, your previous travel history and the overall credibility of your application, I am not satisisted on the balance of probablities that you intend to live with your sponse during the stay and the marriage is susbsisting or that you do not intend to stay in the UK beyond any period of leave granted to your sponse.

We tried to apply for both at once but she doesn't have the fathers name on the birth certificate and apparently needs some document to say i guess the father is not involved in her/his life. Rather than wait we thought it was better to make hers now and while it was being processed or she was in the UK get the correct paper and then submit her sons. She was going to come her for 1-2 months.

also i can get an irish passport..would that make it easier?

i can get an irish passport..would that make it easier?

Yes, it would enable your non-EEA family members to apply for EEA Family Permits .... easier to get than visas.

But why, if you can get an Irish passport, did you bother to get a UK ancestry visa? Surely better to have an Irish passport.

yes true, my grandmother was born in northern ireland, i assumed that was britian, but they can have both passports.

Ok maybe i should look into that. i assumed there was no difference

maybe i should look into that. i assumed there was no difference

Well ... applications for EEA Family Permits are free! And as already said, such permits are easier to get than visas.

Accordingly if you are able to get an Irish passport, well do do that.

Thanks John.
I applied to have my birth registised in Ireland (as you have to do) a month ago and they said it takes 2-3 months, then i can get a passport, so its a little bit of a wait. I'm not too worried about saving 75 pounds but its interesting you say its easier. Why is that? Surely if they don't beleive she will return I'll have the same problem? I assume you would apply to the uk embassy in her country?

If you are Irish you have Treaty Rights and that includes the ability to live and work in any other EEA country, including the UK.

Under EEA/EU law those Treaty Rights extend to your non-EEA family members. But they need an EEA Family Permit in their passport in order to prove those rights are held.

Accordingly, unless there are reasons of State Security or Public Health, an EEA Family Permit must be issued unless the British Mission feels that the marriage is a "marriage of convenience". All in all, that is easier to satisfy than the discretion allowed under UK immigration rules.

Also, under special arrangements for Irish citizens only, an Irish Citizen living in the UK is deemed to be "settled" here. Accordingly another possibility would be for your wife to apply for a 2-year spouse visa on form VAF2. However that would be a paid-for application ... about £260 for each application ..... and there would still need to be the need to satisfy the requirements of the immigration rules.

But an advantage of going the spouse visa route would be the ability to get ILR in 2 years, rather than the 5 years that will apply going down the EEA Family Permit route.

Irrespective of which type of application is made, your wife needs to be far better prepared! She needs to know much more about you ... where you live .... house or flat? .... your hobbies .... what you do in your spare time .... your favourite football team .... your work .... when you are out of the house/flat when you are working .... leave at about what time ... return at what time .... etc etc etc..

We tried to apply for both at once but she doesn't have the fathers name on the birth certificate and apparently needs some document to say i guess the father is not involved in her/his life.

Proceed to get whatever the British Embassy need. But if the father's name is not on the birth certificate, doesn't she already have Sole Custody of the child? If necessary do clarify that with the Embassy in Moscow.

Thanks John for the quick replys.
This is really useful information. I didn't realise they would be handled differently. Not having to prove she will return for an EEC family permit solves one of the two issues.

You are right about her need to know more about me. Actually she knows alot but i think on the day she was quiet in the interview. Normally shes very talkative. I'll tell her to ask for the interview in English next time but with a translator if required. She would be ok. And actually take the photos next time!! Also I'll take up a hobby and tell her what it is. Actually her answer was that i work and visit her in my spare time is actually what i would have said. But I think she was far to over confident.

As for her son, this is what the lady at the from desk told her, so it may not be true. Yes we should ask, i assume its a letter stating that the father is not involved signed by a notary public. I assumed without a name on the certificate is enough but it probably isn't.

So i guess the best idea is to wait for the Irish Passport and apply for a EEA family permit and make sure we can prove the relationship.

So i guess the best idea is to wait for the Irish Passport and apply for a EEA family permit and make sure we can prove the relationship.

Indeed yes, and also be in a position to submit both applications at the same time ... mother and child. Doing that will give more credibility to both applications ..... that the whole family do intend to live together in the UK.

Well we applied for the family permit and they issued it (in a week as they had to make enquiries) without an interview or looking at photos. We still gave them the same 2 years worth of phone calls and records of 7-8 trips I took to her country just in case. Thanks John for the advice of applying for a family permit. As much as i read about visas I probably won't have thought of doing this. I actually got my Irish passport to make it easier for me to travel to her country without thinking it would help her come here.

I think its really crazy that because my gran was born in northern ireland its so much easier for me to get my wife here than a person born in the UK. I really thought the first time we had a good application but under UK law they have more room for interpretation and probably have to reject a certain % who knows.

Congratulations, glad it worked out.

When you say "EEA Family Permit", you have got that just for your wife, or for her child in addition?

Anyway, for your wife, the EEA Family Permit in her passport confirms that she has the same Treaty Rights as you, subject to you continuing to exercise your Treaty Rights in the UK, for example by living and working here. So she is fully able to work, if that is what she wants to do.

It was just my for wife. She will go back and apply for her child after 4 weeks and probably get a few papers legalised at the same time. We wanted to do all together, at least that was the plan but we wouldn't have been able to do that until the last day I was there (she waited until the last minute for the paper she needed and it took a week not a day like she thought). Like you said it would have been better to apply together. But thanks again. I owe you one John.