Thinking about moving to Germany using directive 2004/38/EC

Hi,

I have recently been reading up on the 2004/38/EC directive, and have a couple of questions. I would really value any input.

My wife is a Brazilian citizen, and is currently living in the UK with me on a UK spouse Visa. I am a UK citizen.

She is eligible to apply for ILR in December 2011. However, due to various circumstances we are going through at the moment, we are considering moving to Germany via the 2004/38/EC route. Next week to be precise.

At the moment, we are undecided on our exact plans. One option would be to travel to Germany to live with friends, while we are both looking for work, and then to work in Germany for a couple of months. After this, we would travel back to the UK to live there again, and my wife would apply for ILR in December. (she is allowed to be outside of the UK for a few months under the UK immigration rules, as long as she can prove that the UK is still her home)

The other option we are considering is to travel to Germany next week, initially living with our friends while we are looking for work, and then once we find work, we would rent our own place, and would not return to the UK for maybe six months or more. (we are aware that by doing this, my wife would lose her rights to apply for ILR under the UK spouse visa route)

We don't have time to apply for a Schengen visa before we leave, so we will just be turning up at the port of Dover in our car, on our way to France, before driving to Germany.

so my questions are these:

1) Can my wife just turn up at the border crossing without a Schengen visa? i understand that this is possible in theory according to the directive, but how does this work in practice?

2) When we turn up at border controls in Dover, we will have my wifes UK marriage certificate with us, and a copy of the 2004/38/EC. Bearing in mind my wife already has a UK spouse visa, do we need to explain to the immigration official that we are not sure at this stage whether we will just be visiting Germany for a short working holiday or that we may decide to stay longer, and relocate there?

3) Usually, when we travel, the immigration official just takes a look at my wifes spouse visa, and then lets us through. What I don't want to happen is for the guy to see my wifes spouse visa, and to allow us entry, but to give her the wrong kind of visa (visitor visa) meaning that she will not be allowed to work when we arrive in Germany. Do I specifically need to say to the official that my wife will be travelling with me under the 2004/38/EC directive?

4) If the immigration official asks how long we are staying in Germany, would it be sufficient to simply respond that we do not know how long we will be there, and that we would be looking for work?

5) Once in Germany, and looking for employment, is there any documentation that my wife will need to show to prospective company's to prove that she is entitled to work?

Sorry for the long post. I hope I have made everything clear, and I appreciate any help. I have read through the directive, but am still unsure on the above points.

Thanks,
Andy

Good questions.

Instead of trying to answer them all, let me do this differently.

As you likely know, Brazilians do not need a Schengen visa. So just pack your car.

I doubt anyone will ask you anything when you take the ferry across. But if they do, tell them you are off to explore the beauty of Germany and consider living there. You should have no problems. Carry a copy of the Directive, but most likely it will only be useful for your reading pleasure. Make sure you carry your marriage certificate so you can, if ever needed, prove the relationship.

For the first 3 months, there is no requirement that you or your wife work. You can work easily by showing your passport. You wife will need to get the Aufenthaltskarte referred to below to prove to employers that she can work. I think you can get that immediately after arriving.

After 3 months you need to be working, other otherwise be exercising your treaty rights.

4) If the immigration official asks how long we are staying in Germany, would it be sufficient to simply respond that we do not know how long we will be there, and that we would be looking for work?

Yes. Or you can refuse to answer if you really feel like it. You do not have any particular or firm specific intent. Don't have to have any money. You just have to have an EU passport!

I do not know how good your German is, but this describes the requirements for your wife to get a Residence Card, which the Germans call an "Aufenthaltskarte"
http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/kvr/ausl ... erger.html

4. Familienangehörige und eingetragene Lebenspartner aus Drittstaaten
Familienangehörige oder eingetragene Lebenspartnerinnen und Lebenspartner von freizügigkeitsberechtigten Unionsbürgerinnen und Unionsbürgern, die nicht selbst Unionsbürger sind, benötigen grundsätzlich ein Einreisevisum. Nach der Einreise erhalten sie in der Ausländerbehörde eine Aufenthaltskarte.

Bitte bringen Sie folgende Unterlagen mit:

- vollständig ausgefülltes Antragsformular [ a completed application ]

- gültiger Nationalpass oder Personalausweis [ both passports ]

- ein aktuelles biometrietaugliches Passfoto (Fotoautomaten befinden sich in der Ausländerbehörde) [ a recent passport photo - there is a machine in the Munich office it points out ]

- Heirats- bzw. Partnerschaftsurkunde [ your marriage certificate ]

Have fun! It is a lovely time to be in Germany!

thanks for the amazing reply, so helpful.

just a couple of things. I was reading a lot online about member states requiring resident permits. Is this no longer the case?

We are both hoping to start part time work when we arrive (my wife may already have a possible job lined up). I will get her to apply for the aufenthaltskarte (or something similar in hamburg) as it seems straight forward, with no health insurance initially required. Hopefully they could complete this process on the same day, so she wouldn't have to wait ages before being able to work. (I read online somewhere that this could take weeks. I'm hoping that info was incorrect!)

During our first three months in Germany, would my wife be allowed to work, even when I (the eu citizen) might still be unemployed and searching for a job? her right to work doesn't basically depend upon me finding a job first?

thanks

So, how this works, is that initially you (UK) have no conditions on your stay in the first 3 months. You can work or not work or enjoy the sunshine or whatever. You are legally in Germany no matter what you do for the first 3 months.

After that you need to be working or looking for work or otherwise exercising your treaty rights. If you are doing this, you are legally in Germany.

Through this whole time, as long as you are legally in Germany, then your wife is also legally in Germany. She can, at any time, work if she wants. You on the other hand are required to work (or otherwise exercise your "treaty rights") after 3 months.

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/05 ... a-citizen/ explains this a slightly different way of looking at this.

I should mention that the rules are (or certainly should be) the same no matter where you go. But in Germany the office you go to is run by the local municipality.

If you are living locally with your friends, you may need for first "register" your address with the city. Your friends can tell you where to go, but it is often in the same building as the place to go for the Residence Card. Everyone in Germany is required to do this, locals and foreigners alike.

Finally please update us if anything goes oddly or you are confused or the city is confused.

thank you for all your help. we are now much more educated

I will keep you updated with how things go when we arrive there. hopefully, all smoothly!

Just one last thing:

According to the embassy website in London, when you register your residence in Germany, there is a requirement to produce a rental agreement or lease etc.

Registration of your residence

For this registration please contact the local Einwohnermeldeamt (Residence Registration Office) within a week of finding permanent accommodation, i.e. not a hotel, you will need to register your address at the local Residence Registration Office (Einwohnermeldeamt), usually located in the town hall. Each subsequent change of address must also be registered with the relevant local authority. This rule applies to everyone, including German nationals. To register you need to present your passport, a copy of the lease or rental agreement and a completed registration form, which is usually available at the registry office.

http://www.london.diplo.de/Vertretung/l ... seite.html

As we will be staying with friends, in their house for the first couple of months, we will obviously not have any kind of tenancy kind of agreement.

I will of course be phoning the embassy, but as their visa section is not open until next monday, do you know off hand if an EU country can insist on seeing a tenancy agreement for proof of residence? I could always ask our friends to write a letter if necessary.

Thanks

Andy

In my experience, I do not think I needed to provide proof of where I was living. It is probably an offense to give the wrong information, but I don't think I needed proof. Under EU law there is no need for you to be renting or own a place, unless Germans are also required to be renting or own a place. You can just as well be sleeping rough on the streets or in the mountains.

Get your friends to write you a very short letter saying you are living with them.

http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/kvr/buer ... ulare.html is the site in Munich.

Oh, and be very sure that you do NOT disclose your religion to them on the form. There is a Church Tax if you are of certain religions, like Catholic or Protestant or... It is none of their nosy business! You can always donate money voluntarily to the church of your choice!

Your wife doesn't need a visa but keep a proof of marriage in hand in-case she needs to prove it. EU nationals do not need give proof of address.

Marcus Samuel wrote:EU nationals do not need give proof of address.

What do you mean?

Quick update:

Arrived in Germany last night. No immigration checks whatsoever at Dover port, just waved through.

All in all, with traffic delays, was a long drive to Germany!

Probably early next week, we will go to the local Town Hall and register.

Will let you know how we get on.