Tier One Extention approved after 2 and half years

Hello
Apply for extension entrepreneur 200k alone at OCT 2016 and refused in two months because solicitor forgot to add one letter of corporation tax which I already had it, and then refused admin review and in March i submitted a fresh application, after nearly 8-month, interview had been done and panifully 11 month after interview (nearly 2 years in total) application refused only base on interview. They could not point any problem on documents but everything base of the lady officer who came to interview. some of what she wrote was not truthful. some misunderstanding because she did not know the nature of my business at all, and some was looking irrelevant. For instant, she asked about right of my employees and when I answered (for example) they have right of holidays then she asked how many days? I answered 28 days then she asked is that including bank holidays or without that, Now they worte in refusal letter, she concluded that my job creation is not genuine because I do not know the right of my employees. And some other reasons like these for rejection which I can not bring them all here.
So my question is: after they refuse my admin review, (which probably going to happen) refusing base only on interview (despite all documents are correct) Can this case be challengeable in the court?
And after more than five years lawfully been here (whiteout any traveling abroad) is there any other chance or way to finish this painful situation.
I will really appreciate for any advice because these expensive solicitors have not done any help other than misleading me.

longwaiting wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:55 pm

Hello
Apply for extension entrepreneur 200k alone at OCT 2016 and refused in two months because solicitor forgot to add one letter of corporation tax which I already had it, and then refused admin review and in March i submitted a fresh application, after nearly 8-month, interview had been done and panifully 11 month after interview (nearly 2 years in total) application refused only base on interview. They could not point any problem on documents but everything base of the lady officer who came to interview. some of what she wrote was not truthful. some misunderstanding because she did not know the nature of my business at all, and some was looking irrelevant. For instant, she asked about right of my employees and when I answered (for example) they have right of holidays then she asked how many days? I answered 28 days then she asked is that including bank holidays or without that, Now they worte in refusal letter, she concluded that my job creation is not genuine because I do not know the right of my employees. And some other reasons like these for rejection which I can not bring them all here.
So my question is: after they refuse my admin review, (which probably going to happen) refusing base only on interview (despite all documents are correct) Can this case be challengeable in the court?
And after more than five years lawfully been here (whiteout any traveling abroad) is there any other chance or way to finish this painful situation.
I will really appreciate for any advice because these expensive solicitors have not done any help other than misleading me.

Really sorry to hear that but these things have happened with so many people.
These things normally stand no chance on JR.
Be cautious when choosing a solicitor because most of them are only rip off, it happened with you already so watch it.
I’m sure you will be ok if refusals base on these stupid reason which make no sense.

longwaiting wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:55 pm

Hello
Apply for extension entrepreneur 200k alone at OCT 2016 and refused in two months because solicitor forgot to add one letter of corporation tax which I already had it, and then refused admin review and in March i submitted a fresh application, after nearly 8-month, interview had been done and panifully 11 month after interview (nearly 2 years in total) application refused only base on interview. They could not point any problem on documents but everything base of the lady officer who came to interview. some of what she wrote was not truthful. some misunderstanding because she did not know the nature of my business at all, and some was looking irrelevant. For instant, she asked about right of my employees and when I answered (for example) they have right of holidays then she asked how many days? I answered 28 days then she asked is that including bank holidays or without that, Now they worte in refusal letter, she concluded that my job creation is not genuine because I do not know the right of my employees. And some other reasons like these for rejection which I can not bring them all here.
So my question is: after they refuse my admin review, (which probably going to happen) refusing base only on interview (despite all documents are correct) Can this case be challengeable in the court?
And after more than five years lawfully been here (whiteout any traveling abroad) is there any other chance or way to finish this painful situation.
I will really appreciate for any advice because these expensive solicitors have not done any help other than misleading me.

That is unfortunate.

Did you get the transcript from the interviewer ?

On the positive side, similar cases have been overturned in AR and/or PAP/JR.

Make your point by point argument for the AR by stating
1) The interviewer has wrongly recorded the answers (if that is the case) and
2) Even if that is the case, (not knowing all the details of employee rights, for example) is not an indicator of genuineness. In this case, for example, I assume you had some HR company/consultant to do your employee contract and as a business owner, you delegate such details.

Depending on what exactly are the reasons, I would consider you have a reasonable chance of having your decision overturned.

For instant, she asked about right of my employees and when I answered (for example) they have right of holidays then she asked how many days? I answered 28 days then she asked is that including bank holidays or without that, Now they worte in refusal letter, she concluded that my job creation is not genuine because I do not know the right of my employees.

This one is gold because whether you answered including bank holidays or without that, you are still correct with the 28 days. It is up to the employer to make that call. There is no way you can claim from that you do not know the rights of your employees and then conclude that the job creation is not genuine. That is almost comedy gold In the court, it is HO that has to prove that the jobs were not genuine and such a claim is not going to hold any water. I am interested to know what other stupid conclusions they made on your case. If not overturned in AR, I hope a simple PAP will flip this decision quickly

Thank you Zimba, Marcnath and Momi. God bless you all.
As you asked more to know about this case, I wrote them for you here:
1- The Compliance Officer/Decision Maker clearly did not understand the nature of my business
and how the business operates. the business predominantly operates on
customer sites and company pays monthly rent to another company to use their
workshop for any production/design activities. this is because these Machinery are so expensive and cannot pay half million to buy them plus buy the space for them but this lady thought because my workshop is inside that company therefore my business is not genuine. moreover, there are other companies inside that company which are active but she did not want to check or to see any of them.
she appears to be totally unfamiliar with the growing trend of businesses to operate from shared
workspaces.
2- In the refusal the Compliance Officer states concern as why the company does not have it's own VAN and use other compani's van, this is the answer:
“If this was a concern then it would only have been fair and proper for the Compliance Officer to raise this and afford the Applicant and/or the other Company an opportunity to respond during the interview. To refuse on this basis is unlawful as any concerns as to the Applicant’s answers could have been addressed and cleared up by the compliance officer in the course of the interview (R (Anjum) v ECO, Islamabad[2017]UKUT406,IAC). ”
3 - the Compliance Officer/case worker states that he was not able to interview my employee who was clearly working with me at the time she arrived and she claimed that he was not doing anything, but this is not true and sadly lie. she did not ask for that and because she did not like dust and noise I had to take her to another office for interview, after 3 hours interview she came back to get picture from my workplace and my employee was working there and again she did not ask anything from him and she left, but sadly what she brought in her report was not truth.
"It is not clear why this employee was not interviewed and the Compliance Officer’s reason for
this is that “parameters of the visit would not allow it”. No further explanation is given by the
Compliance Officer as to what this actually means. It is submitted that the failure of the
Compliance Officer to gather relevant evidence that would have supported the applicant’s
case is totally unsatisfactory and cannot be sustained."
4 - I deny being unable to state what work the employees were doing or that there
was no Schedule of Works. it is impossible to work without plans/drawings.
The Compliance Officer does not understand the nature of the business. I
advised the Compliance Officer that My other employee had gone on a site visit and would not
have had a Schedule of Works/plans for that project as this is only drawn up after the initial
site visit.
5 - "Refusal on this basis is perverse given that the Applicant presented all relevant evidence
required of an employer including contracts of employment, payslips and P60s. The fact the
Applicant could not recall the exact holiday entitlement is not sufficient to state the business
activity and/or the job creation is not credible. Furthermore, the Applicant correctly stated
sickness and holiday matters were referred to his Accountant to ensure correct payments
were made according to the contract, as the Accountant is responsible for payroll matters.
This is entirely consistent with business customs and practice in many small businesses."
6 - There is no explanation why it took nearly a year after the visit for the decision to be made or why no notes of the interview were given to the Applicant at the end of the visit and/or as soon as practicable thereafter for the applicant to review.

I must add that I did answer all her questions honestly and at the end she asked me to sign the interview papers, Not in a million years did I think she could come out with such a report.
I hope this information can help others.
Please tell me you opinion and if HO want to accept the AR, will be straight forward or another year and more painful interview is going to happen ?
Thank you

Seems like an unreasonable decision to me. It looks like you already have some professional help in drafting the reply.
While I think you will eventually prevail, unfortunately it is very difficult to say how long it will take.

It seems like nonsensical and unlawful nitpicking and the HO's desire (particularly during the time of May as home secretary as well as Amber Rudd) to reduce the number of immigrants in any way possible. HO did not show in anyway that your business was not genuine so from a legal standpoint they have no grounds to stand on.

Thank you very much for your reply
Could you please just tell me: Decision for AR will be certainly within 28 days or could be more? and also could this decision lead to more interview and document asking or simply will be an answer of yes or no?
because it is already more than 2 years past and I am wondering how much resources they are going to put to waste and destroy people life.

AR will look for administrative errors only but not if the case worker's decision was clearly lawful. So they might drop/change the reasons for refusal or could even overturn it. It should take a month in most cases

Unfortunately, they refused my AR too. Now we have to go for JR and you guys were hopeful that I might win. But can you please tell me: because (Except of 14 days overstay for fresh application nearly 2 years ago) I have been legally working more than five years with entrepreneur Visa untill rejection today, and now I do not have any rights of work or anything else, do I need to keep this business and my employees (which after submit application they got payed for 19 Month) ? If I win the JR, for next step do I need to continue these bloody condition for entrepreneur? While they threaten me that they will ask banks close my accounts and DVLA going to cancel my driving license and so more horrible warnning which each one of them is a big nightmare.
I will appreciate for any advice. THank you

longwaiting wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:35 pm

Unfortunately, they refused my AR too. Now we have to go for JR and you guys were hopeful that I might win. But can you please tell me: because (Except of 14 days overstay for fresh application nearly 2 years ago) I have been legally working more than five years with entrepreneur Visa untill rejection today, and now I do not have any rights of work or anything else, do I need to keep this business and my employees (which after submit application they got payed for 19 Month) ? If I win the JR, for next step do I need to continue these bloody condition for entrepreneur? While they threaten me that they will ask banks close my accounts and DVLA going to cancel my driving license and so more horrible warnning which each one of them is a big nightmare.
I will appreciate for any advice. THank you

Sorry to hear that.
You do not have any right work. But you can carry on with your business provided you are not on payroll. But yes, they do make it difficult with the bank, driver's licence, etc.
You can of course do a new application also within 14 days of refusal. Since you have completed 5 years, you can apply for ILR directly rather than an extension. You can try to address these points in the new application (for example by adding the schedule of works).
You don't need to keep the business and employees but you need to at least register yourself as self-employed

But “Zimba” told me before that because I already had a fresh application, so now Neither I can go for another fresh application, nor apply for ILR regardless I have been here continuously for more than five years. But if I missed a point please let me know because I have very short time before 14 days finnish to go for another application rather than JR.
Thank you

You mentioned this is your second application to be refused. You already took advantage of the 14 days allowed under 39E to apply for your second application. The problem is that given you have been an overstayer for more than 14 days (since your section 3C ended), any new application will be refused automatically.

longwaiting wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:15 am

But “Zimba” told me before that because I already had a fresh application, so now Neither I can go for another fresh application, nor apply for ILR regardless I have been here continuously for more than five years. But if I missed a point please let me know because I have very short time before 14 days finnish to go for another application rather than JR.
Thank you

Zimba is right - I missed the fact that this was your second application

Thank you guys.
I just came back from solicitor and he wants to go for PAP now. but I was just wandering, is there any possibility to explain about my running business, my customers and my employees and get an injunction from the court that while I have to wait for judicial review so they allow me to work and run my business? is that Possible?

longwaiting wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:13 pm

Thank you guys.
I just came back from solicitor and he wants to go for PAP now. but I was just wandering, is there any possibility to explain about my running business, my customers and my employees and get an injunction from the court that while I have to wait for judicial review so they allow me to work and run my business? is that Possible?

You can run your business as normal, just you cannot be on payroll

Thank you but with all refusal documents there was a letter which call it "immigration Bail", it has one condition that you can not work. i showed it to solicitor and he said to ask one of your empolyer to run your company and you can not do anything there, he said this bail is bad. i don't know what is really mean to put you on bail?

Being a director does not, of itself, make that person an employee of the company. A directorship is an office, not necessarily an employment. If, however, the company enters into a service contract with the director, the terms of which make the director an employee under the usual common law test, then the director becomes an employee. As long as you are NOT on payroll and you have NOT been awarded a service contract by your company, then you are not employed.

To go for JR, we asked for “interview Note” from Home Office. HO sent it today after 3 weeks’ delay and now one month past since the final refusal. Now the solicitor wants to first obtain the barrister opinion on the merits of pursuing this option before initiate proceedings. This is a very stressful time as I do not know what HO might do in case of removal and deportation because you will hear so many story and opinion about it. Does anybody know what is a risk at the moment and if there is any way to avoid it. Thank you

All the best ...
Hi longwaiting , i have a question how you request for interview transcript ... ? Email or Post or call ? Could you pls provide the number email or adress to request the Interview questions . thanks

Hi Ali313
To be honest, solicitor did it for me and I do not know how he did it. if you have solicitor he can do it for you.
I hope you are not going through my situation. If you need any help let me know.

Zimba wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:08 pm

It seems like nonsensical and unlawful nitpicking and the HO's desire (particularly during the time of May as home secretary as well as Amber Rudd) to reduce the number of immigrants in any way possible. HO did not show in anyway that your business was not genuine so from a legal standpoint they have no grounds to stand on.

Hello Again . It is nearly 4 month after rejection since i went for PAP and Then JR, and As Zimba predicted, HO agreed to withdrawal the refusal and they want my Consent, so I do not claim any cost for JR from them and then within 3 month they are going to reconsider my case and make a decision again!
now it is nearly more than 2 painfull years since i applied for this application (EXT Tire one Entrepreneur) .
with many thanks to Zimba and other Moderators, which their advice got me to this point. God bless you all.
can you please tell me now HO is going to reconsider, what is my chance now? and also after refusal unfortunatly they removed my right of work so i had to ceased my business and let my employees go. is that going to be a problem?

The problem with reconsideration is that they can go away and waste another 6 months and then come back with a completely new list of reasons and a refusal and then you are back where you started. This may be their tactic to tire you out, hoping you just give up and leave the UK.
What is your lawyers advice at this point ?

This is the lawyer’s opinion:
Home Office has agreed to reconsider the refusal of your application which is the best outcome that we could expect at this stage. The agreement to reach a new decision (subject to special circumstances) within three months is the Home Office standard response when they agree to reconsider a matter. You should be aware that this is not a guarantee that your application will be approved. A reconsideration means looking at the matter again, you could therefore be requested to provide additional information or conceivably be subject to a new interview.

This is what layer said and apparently they do not have more than that, but the fact that application submitted in march 2017 and after 8 month they come for interview in my business premises and then after 11 month rejected by those stupid reasons, and now after 5 month which I had to stop the business, lose employees, and let down all my customers, they back off by JR and they want to reconsider???!! Which information after more than two years they want while they destroyed my work!! As you explained their Horrible Tactic to delay and tire me out, It just looks so bully and cruel which I cannot understand what they will gain by that.
The last time your help was great, now I found this opportunity, could I please have your opinion or a key so they cannot play me any more. There must be a way to come out of this.
Thank you

Unfortunately this is the best you can get at this point. I believe that as they agreed to reconsider, your section 3C continues. I hope this takes less than 3 months