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norway .38% growth

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amzad
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norway .38% growth

Post by amzad » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:35 pm

if norway';s population growth is only .38% why are they making it so difficult to imigrate into norway? it seems they need people to go in there to maintain the population

joesoap101
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Post by joesoap101 » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:40 pm

This situation is occuring in many countries in the EU and Japan for example. They will wake up and panic when their pension and welfare systems take a hit!

Morten80
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Post by Morten80 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:38 pm

joesoap101 wrote:This situation is occuring in many countries in the EU and Japan for example. They will wake up and panic when their pension and welfare systems take a hit!
Hmmm.. Well, some part of that is true.. But I don't think it's the biggest issue..

The Government Pension Fund - Global (Norwegian: Statens pensjonsfond - Utland) is a fund where the surplus wealth produced by Norwegian petroleum income is put. The fund changed name in January 2006 from its previous name The Petroleum Fund of Norway. The fund is commonly referred to as The Petroleum Fund (Norwegian: Oljefondet). As of the valuation in June 2007, it is the largest pension fund in Europe and the second largest in the world [1] with a value of NOK 1.939 trillion, although it is not actually a pension fund as it derives its financial backing from oil profits and not pensioners.

The purpose of the petroleum fund is to invest parts of the large surplus generated by the Norwegian petroleum sector, generated mainly from taxes of companies, but also payment for license to explore as well as the State's Direct Financial Interest and dividens from the partial ownership of StatoilHydro. It is predicted that revenue from the petroleum sector is now in its peak period and will decline over the next decades. The Petroleum Fund was established in 1990 after a decision by the legislature assembly Storting to counter the effects of the forthcoming decline in income and to smooth out the disrupting effects of highly fluctuating oil prices.


The fund is administered by Norges Bank Investment Management (NBIM), a part of the Norwegian Central Bank. It is currently the largest pension fund in Europe and similar in size to the California public-employees pension fund (CalPERS), the largest public pension fund in the United States. NBIM forecasts that the fund will reach NOK 3.044 trillion by the end of 2009. Since 1998 the fund has been allowed to invest up to 50% of its portfolio in the international stock market.

joesoap101
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Post by joesoap101 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Morten80 wrote:
joesoap101 wrote:This situation is occuring in many countries in the EU and Japan for example. They will wake up and panic when their pension and welfare systems take a hit!
Hmmm.. Well, some part of that is true.. But I don't think it's the biggest issue..

The Government Pension Fund - Global (Norwegian: Statens pensjonsfond - Utland) is a fund where the surplus wealth produced by Norwegian petroleum income is put. The fund changed name in January 2006 from its previous name The Petroleum Fund of Norway. The fund is commonly referred to as The Petroleum Fund (Norwegian: Oljefondet). As of the valuation in June 2007, it is the largest pension fund in Europe and the second largest in the world [1] with a value of NOK 1.939 trillion, although it is not actually a pension fund as it derives its financial backing from oil profits and not pensioners.

The purpose of the petroleum fund is to invest parts of the large surplus generated by the Norwegian petroleum sector, generated mainly from taxes of companies, but also payment for license to explore as well as the State's Direct Financial Interest and dividens from the partial ownership of StatoilHydro. It is predicted that revenue from the petroleum sector is now in its peak period and will decline over the next decades. The Petroleum Fund was established in 1990 after a decision by the legislature assembly Storting to counter the effects of the forthcoming decline in income and to smooth out the disrupting effects of highly fluctuating oil prices.


The fund is administered by Norges Bank Investment Management (NBIM), a part of the Norwegian Central Bank. It is currently the largest pension fund in Europe and similar in size to the California public-employees pension fund (CalPERS), the largest public pension fund in the United States. NBIM forecasts that the fund will reach NOK 3.044 trillion by the end of 2009. Since 1998 the fund has been allowed to invest up to 50% of its portfolio in the international stock market.
So essentially Norway will be a country full of pensioners and the population will keep declining. The petroleum fund also will not last indefinitely and the north sea is running dry- in fact Britain has become a net importer of crude due to large decrease in production in the north sea.

The petroleum fund is good in that it saves something for a rainy day but unless the Norwegians, Japanese and Russians for example start having a lot more babies there will be problems in the future, immigrants can potentially solve part of this problem, if they are selected properly.

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Post by Morten80 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm

joesoap101 wrote: Immigrants can potentially solve part of this problem, if they are selected properly.
Indeed.

I am not saying Norway can live forever on this, but it will last longer than our lifetime.

As long as the number regarding population growth is in +, how can you predict a country with only pensioners??
Last edited by Morten80 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Platinum » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:54 pm

Given a choice between a huge influx of immigrants, or having the people simply dying out, maybe those countries have chosen the latter. Nothing wrong with that.

(I believe Japan, and a few of the Scandinavian countries, are setting up lots of programmes to encourage the native population to have bigger families.)

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Post by Administrator » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:10 am

.

I love this website:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/no.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/ja.html

Scroll down about two or three pages for a nice set of statistics on the populations.


Consider that a growth rate of 0.38% is still growth.

Japan has a different problem .. it is actually in decline at -0.088% growth.

A country/population that has approximately 2.1 births per woman (the 'fertility rate') generally has a sustainable birth rate, given other factors are fairly normal. Japan has about 1.2 & Norway has about 1.7. I don't know why Norway is experiencing growth, but I'd guess a superior medical system and generally one of the healthiest lifestyles are leading factors.

So, their death rate is very close to their birth rate, thus growth. An increasing pensioner population ... the same problem as many other countries in the westernized world. Japan being a notable example, and a country that has reached a critical point where not enough young people are around to replenish the population.

Norway doesn't need much adjustment to keep sustainable, and the government is paying close attention to proper management of Norway. Other countries are in a more precarious position.

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Post by Wanderer » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:48 am

I know Russia has a problem with this, more people leaving than being born. An on top of this, all the ones leaving are the fit women to Russian Bride Seekers, leaving only mingers for the Russian men.

Putin even gave a 'cash for babies' incentive before he moved on.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

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Re: norway .38% growth

Post by thirdwave » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:23 pm

amzad wrote:if norway';s population growth is only .38% why are they making it so difficult to imigrate into norway? it seems they need people to go in there to maintain the population
The answer is that most countries are now looking for the 'right kind' of immigrants'(highly skilled) as many a lesson has been learned from the experiences of countries like France, UK and Holland with large scale low skilled immigration of the 'wrong kind'..

Look around and you'd soon realise that no country in the world promotes immigration just in order to boost birthrates!!

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Post by pierre75 » Sun May 25, 2008 5:19 pm

Reality is that France, UK, Holland ... want both highly skilled migrants from the full world and low skilled migrants only from white east Europe ...

The irony is that now Romania, Poland ... will have to import massively low skilled workers from non-white countries and the kids of these migrants will have the right to migrate to west european countries ...
New forum in french for binationals Europe/third country couples and families :
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joesoap101
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Post by joesoap101 » Sun May 25, 2008 7:46 pm

pierre75 wrote:Reality is that France, UK, Holland ... want both highly skilled migrants from the full world and low skilled migrants only from white east Europe ...

The irony is that now Romania, Poland ... will have to import massively low skilled workers from non-white countries and the kids of these migrants will have the right to migrate to west european countries ...
It is more likely that Poland Romania Bulgaria will import massively low skilled workers not from non-white countries but from Ukraine, Belarus even Serbia, Macedonia.

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Post by pierre75 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:00 am

I totally agree but it is not the only possibility.

I read somewhere that Romania is sending delegates in India and China in order to negociate workers inquite huge figures (few tens of thousands).

It should be easy to find more about in the web.
New forum in french for binationals Europe/third country couples and families :
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Post by Spark » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:39 am

pierre75 wrote: The irony is that now Romania, Poland ... will have to import massively low skilled workers from non-white countries and the kids of these migrants will have the right to migrate to west european countries ...
What do you mean "will have to" they already do and have been doing so for a few years.

They've got North Koreans working there as welders believe it or not, basically acting as slaves for the Polish and DPRK governments.
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pierre75
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Post by pierre75 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:09 am

I wrote that the East European countries are preparing to mass importation of workers from Third World because of recent articles i have read in the press from India and China on the arrival of European delegations preparing these transfers. But I do not have precise figures. I would be very interested to get some and this subject of immigrationboards could be the place where everyone would present which European country is importing how many workers, of which origin and for which work. Little by lttle, we could have detailed figures.

My feeling is that West European Countries subcontract to Eastern Europe to import mass of workers from developing countries whose entire Europe needs. The reason for this subcontracting in Eastern Europe seems to me twofold: firstly, it must relocate factories from Western Europe in matters of cost and profitability. On the other hand, we can not massively import these workers in Western Europe because they would benefit from rights (family reunification, the equivalent salary of local workers, freedom of movement and freedom to change employers ...) that West European countries do not want to give them. Therefore, subcontracting to Eastern Europe is convenient for not having to respect these rights.

Is it that someone is in agreement? Disagree? What to add to prove or to contradict this ?
New forum in french for binationals Europe/third country couples and families :
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pierre75
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Post by pierre75 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:22 am

Who knows about good books or studies related to this issue ?

Thank you
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