Court Hearing, Experience

Hello friends:

Today we had a court hearing experience, please read and post your valuable comments that what should I expect now?
Me and my team member both applied under 50k route as entrepreneurial team, application got refused on several issues ( legal letter properly not formatted, bank letters not having each other's names, current appointment report missing, advertisements not sufficient, Clients details with whom business contract was signed, not sufficient, no un-audited accounts).

Our barrister went through each of these issues very carefully in court and relied on the documents which we already submitted. He didn't repeatedly request the judge for evidential flexibility but focused on the authenticity of the documents already submitted. After 55 minutes of his continues presentation on all the issues one by one, providing all the relevant immigration law references and rulings, judge was very carefully listening to him and didn't ask any questions, though he continued noting down the points, references, along with the exact immigration rules raised by the barrister.
At the end judge looked at me and my team member and said following:
( Gentlemen, I am fully convinced that HO has made an unlawful decision against your application and there is no more discussion needed on this. You will be receiving my decision ASAP & I'll direct HO that they have made an unlawful decisions and they should make a fresh lawful decision on your application. Finally I appreciate the reference and the immigration rules coded by Mr (our barrister).

This was all friends, HO representative didn't turn up for hearing.
I am anxious to know that what next can I expect from HO now?
(It is not out of place to mention here that, all those refusal points raised by HO regarding missing documents were included in our fresh appellant bundle before the honourable judge).

Thanks in advance to all of you for your respected views and recommendations.

'' I am fully convinced that HO has made an unlawful decision against your application and there is no more discussion needed on this''


if judge used the exact wording as you pasted in your post,you have won the case.

congratulations...

Thanks,

I appreciate your consoling comments princess, but in addition to this the judge has also said that " I will direct HO to make a lawful decision on your application"

I guess his remarks I.e. " No more discussion is needed" were used for the court room only, may be he wanted to express that he totally agrees with my barrister and no further presentation from barrister was required on this issue in the court room.
Yeah?

Khizar wrote:Hello friends:

Today we had a court hearing experience, please read and post your valuable comments that what should I expect now?
Me and my team member both applied under 50k route as entrepreneurial team, application got refused on several issues ( legal letter properly not formatted, bank letters not having each other's names, current appointment report missing, advertisements not sufficient, Clients details with whom business contract was signed, not sufficient, no un-audited accounts).

Our barrister went through each of these issues very carefully in court and relied on the documents which we already submitted. He didn't repeatedly request the judge for evidential flexibility but focused on the authenticity of the documents already submitted. After 55 minutes of his continues presentation on all the issues one by one, providing all the relevant immigration law references and rulings, judge was very carefully listening to him and didn't ask any questions, though he continued noting down the points, references, along with the exact immigration rules raised by the barrister.
At the end judge looked at me and my team member and said following:
( Gentlemen, I am fully convinced that HO has made an unlawful decision against your application and there is no more discussion needed on this. You will be receiving my decision ASAP & I'll direct HO that they have made an unlawful decisions and they should make a fresh lawful decision on your application. Finally I appreciate the reference and the immigration rules coded by Mr (our barrister).

This was all friends, HO representative didn't turn up for hearing.
I am anxious to know that what next can I expect from HO now?
(It is not out of place to mention here that, all those refusal points raised by HO regarding missing documents were included in our fresh appellant bundle before the honourable judge).

Thanks in advance to all of you for your respected views and recommendations.

Hi there

I think you have won the case.

Congratulations

Could you please PM me your barrister's name and contact information?

Thanks a lot

my application refused today can i have ur barrister number can u pls call me 07533586390

''I guess his remarks I.e. " No more discussion is needed" were used for the court room only, may be he wanted to express that he totally agrees with my barrister and no further presentation from barrister was required on this issue in the court room.
Yeah?''

he(judge) apparently had no reasons to lie or did not say anything that he actually did not mean because such officials when they say they mean it.

anymore thinking before you receive the written determination you confuse yourself, its Friday night you should be chilling about instead of paining yourself for something that you already know about,

thanks,

Congratulations!!!! It can't be better than that! You won the case!

What about the HO barrister, was he/she there ?

therock wrote:Congratulations!!!! It can't be better than that! You won the case!

What about the HO barrister, was he/she there ?

Yes they won the case but when judge says that he will direct HO to make a lawful decision. Doesnt it mean that HO will recheck the application because judhe is not going to direct to issue the visa.

Yes, that is my concern and the basic purpose of posting this situation here, because judge is going to direct HO to make a new lawful decision on the application, which doesn't necessarily mean that HO is bound to issue visa.
I have heard through few friends that this type of judgment is called as " Appeal allowed to limited extent" and either of the following actions should be expected from HO:

A). Challenge the decision of first tier tribunal in upper court
Or
B). Ask the applicants to submit few additional or fresh documents in the support of application.
Or
C). Again refuse the application on any other grounds & give the applicant a further right of appeal in first tier tribunal.
Or
D). Issue the visas.

My question here from the valuable experts and moderators is that, considering the judgment of the court, which one from the above four expected actions is more likely to be practised.

Thanks again for your feedback and response.

What did you mean when you said,

'all those refusal points raised by HO regarding missing documents were included in our fresh appellant bundle '

Do you mean you relied on new stuff which was not submitted with your bundle?

Thanks for your post - my hearing is on Friday - I also have so many grounds of refusal - and your post has really given me some hope!

All the best to you guys!

Sorry I couldn't explain it well:
I meant to say was that: New evidence was presented there in the court but it wasn't totally new or the documents which have been sent at the HO at-all at the time of application.
All the fresh documents were correlated with the existing documents , still though barrister kept defending the documents already sent to the HO with initial application. Barrister did use the law for evidential flexibility but not with every single document.
( I think it is very important to mention here that: if any one is refused on the point that: Business contract made but clients landline number/cell phone wasn't supplied): if you read the policy guidance it says "provide the landline number or email address where applicable" , so although my barrister used the evidential flexibility here but also brought the attention of honourable judge to the point that "Where applicable" term used by policy guidance itself says that this field is not mandatory so the case work can't refuse an application on this ground or raise this ground as an refusal point along with other refusals points)
Thanks

Thank s for clearing it up.

All the best

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:21 pm Post subject: UKBA didn't attend the hearing Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
Dear All,
I had a hearing at First-Tier Tribunal earlier this week for Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) visa. We send the bundle of document only one week before the hearing.
UKBA's presenting Officer didn't show up at hearing. We were presenting our case our self. it was only me, my team-mate and Judge in the court room, as no one attended the hearing from Home office. Judge said to us that she was only given our file 10 minutes ago and had a quick flick through the bundle and given us the opportunity to add anything we may want to. Then she ask few questions about who is 3rd party, what type of business we are going to run, our qualification etc. (nothing related to refusal itself)
My question is what to expect from the court considering that UKBA didn't turn up for hearing to defend their initial decision.

Gabbs, you can't really predict that what is more likely to happen, because judges usually don't announce or show any any expressions about their judgment, specially if they don't want it to express.

Anyhow,

1) Depends on what were your refusal points & the approach you used to clear them, was the evidential flexibility used only or you have defended the already submitted documents as well?

2) Usually absence of Hopo, gives an edge to the applicant since, there is no one for grilling or asking too many tricky questions from the applicant, but this also doesn't necessarily mean that judgment could be 100% in the favour of applicant.

3) if there were more then 2/3 refusals and you are sure that, you presented your cases very well, with providing good references, laws, then judge may had a consideration to allow appeal to a limited extent and direct HO to consider all fresh evidence and make a fresh decision.

3) Since you have not received the actual determination of court yet so,It's it's quite early to be sure about anything. You will receive the first trier tribunal decision shortly so it's better to just hope for the best and don't press yourself.

Hi friends:

I have received the court judgment today and as we (I& my entrepreneurial team member) were told by judge in the court at the end of hearing in court room, we received the same determination today, which says that judge has terminated the HO decision and declared it as unlawful and directed HO to make a fresh lawful decision, till then application remains outstanding.

I am not sure, what could possibly come from HO now.

Any advice will be highly appreciated.

Looking Good mate..... Hope fully you will get the Visa now.

Thanks AUHS.
I am also hoping for the good.

It seems judges are giving the same judgments if allowing the appeal. We got same judgment appeal allowed to extent that the decision made was unlawful and now appelant awaits a new lawful decision. Appeal allowed. Ful fees awarded. I have received the letterfrom HO after a month asking bank details to get fees refund. Hope I will rreceive brp soon Inshaa Allah.

That's happening quite frequent now I guess.
Wish you best of luck with your BRP.

Things are looking good. Congrats to Khizar and appeal786.

Thank you Lola.
Waiting now for the end of these holidays ... Hopefully I will not be further trolled by HO.

Regards

its a 100% win
congrats
well i have an almost same seniro .
my visa refused as entrepreneur team
for not mention my name on my team member bank account
& my team member visa refused for not mention my name ?
my appeal date is due in 8th of January
so what u think wat are the chances?

If this is the only refusal on your application then it's not a big deal but still you need to be fully prepared.
Try to have your money in a Joint Account now and take the latest statement with you in the court.
I am sure it will be all OK.

Thanks

Just to update you friends, I have recieved the appeal fee refunded back in account yesterday on 11th of January.
Archive:
Appeal allowed to limited extent: 5th of December
Court Decission recieved : 18th of December 2013
Appeal few refunded: 11th of January 2014
_______

Can any guru advice me that, when and what is more likely to happen now with my case?

Many thanks in advance

congrats!!!! khizar
u will defintly get a visa inshALLAH...
CAN U PLEASE PM ME UR BARRIESTER NAME AND NUMBER ..OR UR NUMBER.BECAUSE I HAVE SAME REFUSAL BUT MY HEARING IS IN UPPER TRIBUNAL BECAUSE FIRST TIER TRIBUNAL REFUSE MY APPEAL AS WELL.