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HSMP: The Future Tier system??

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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rsathish
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HSMP: The Future Tier system??

Post by rsathish » Tue May 15, 2007 10:32 am

Hello Ppl,

I guess you must be aware of the proposed Tier system to be introduced in the beginning of April 2008. (Similar to that of Aussie immigration)

How do you think this would affect the HSMP extension that many of us will be going for 2007 end onwards?

I am really worried that this might turn out to be one of the "skills-shortage-list" kind of immigration.

Refer the following links:
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 6967756153

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2007_04_ ... ounced.htm

You inputs would be much appreciated...

Thnx,
Sathish.[quote][/quote]

save
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Post by save » Wed May 16, 2007 8:51 am

Guys,

Can you please advise if the changes due in 2008 would have an impact on the HSMP visa holders as well.

aprilhsmp
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Post by aprilhsmp » Wed May 16, 2007 11:09 am

yes. the first tier is HSMP. I think it will impact the existing HSMP holder's visa extension as well.

they say engineers are tier 2 (skilled and not highly skilled) :x

save
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Post by save » Wed May 16, 2007 11:18 am

Ok. what about banking roles then. Would their definition also change from highly skilled to skilled?/???

Is there any website where we can look up, info on this.... please do let me know....

Filipinas
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Tier I and Tier 2

Post by Filipinas » Wed May 16, 2007 2:44 pm

Dear Save,

Banking related positions would most likely be placed on Tier 2 as the definiton of Tier 1 is for enterpreneurs, doctors, scientists. Tier 2 covers the white collar jobs. Most likely, the basic requirement for this is that you are under an employment at the time of your application- since it would totally be ruthless of HO if they would have to get a currently employed HSMP holder to be kicked out simply because there's no high demand for UK to fill in such position... I JUST HOPE I WILL NOT BE WRONG.

Filipinas

baskey
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Post by baskey » Wed May 16, 2007 3:22 pm

Hi,

Its highly threadening the existing HSMP holders. It seems , Tier 1 point based system will be similar to Australian Immigration system.

Does any one know, what is the difference between UK- HSMP and Austrailan Skilled Visa? Atleast we get some clue :oops:

Regards,

Baskey

hsmpTry
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Post by hsmpTry » Wed May 16, 2007 4:09 pm

good thought Filipinas ....

but this Tier system I have some doubts ....

1. will it be possible for HSMP holders to come under Tier-2 ???? since HSMP belongs to Tier -1 now..
2. I think there will ve a point system as well In Tier-2 which will can be difficult for existing HSMP holders ....

I think the main story is that even after getting HSMP people are so insecure as they are not sure where they gonna land up after 2 years time. This Tier system will start from 2008 and I think its will make sure that it gets difficult for HSMP holders.....

Lets hope for best though

Cheers!!
Twisha

LondonBlonde
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Post by LondonBlonde » Wed May 16, 2007 4:36 pm

I just don't get it. Byrn has announced a change, but hasn't yet defined what it means to existing hsmp holders. Shouldn't they wait until all is worked out before announcing?! Otherwise, they could be needlessly worrying everyone.

Unfortunately, we can only guess right now how all will be effected.

I am nearly finished with all of this, but can't imagine how difficult things will be for all else.

LondonBlonde

EdgeHillMole
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Post by EdgeHillMole » Wed May 16, 2007 8:17 pm

IMHO, my reading so far of the 2006 rule changes and what they mean:

1. HO intends to apply any new rules, including anything such as a new Tier system, to all existing HSMP applicants WHO NEED TO MAKE ANY EXTENSIONS. We can perhaps also infer they will make the new Tier system apply to extensions for all existing Work Permit holders.

2. HSMP/Tier 1 Visa holders have to RESIDE in the UK at least 5 years (4 years, 11 months) before they can apply for ILR. If an HSMP/Tier 1 visa holder has not been RESIDING in the country for 5 years, they will have to apply for an additional HSMP extension instead of ILR;

3. HSMP/Tier 1 Visa holders who later move from HSMP/Tier 1 to Work Permit/Tier 2 will NOT qualify for ILR after RESIDING in the UK for 5 years.
To get ILR, one must be 5 years solely working on a Work Permit, or 5 years on Work Permit + HSMP where the last part of the 5 year period MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE HSMP/Tier 1.

4. HO can change the rules at any time on extensions without a moment's notice, affecting people applying for extension tomorrow. Therefore, today the rule for Tier 2 may be to obtain X number of points, but tomorrow the rule could change so that only occupations on a "skills-shortage-list" will qualify for a Tier 2 Extension. Another example: HO may change the ILR qualifying period from 5 years UK residence to something really long like 10!

It is for these reasons, especially this last item of hurdles changing to anything at a moment's whim for long-standing, settled UK residents, that we need to support the Judicial Review for HSMP extensions.
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SpiderKing
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Post by SpiderKing » Wed May 16, 2007 9:46 pm

Hi EdgeHillMole,

Could you pls clarify following:

3. HSMP/Tier 1 Visa holders who later move from HSMP/Tier 1 to Work Permit/Tier 2 will NOT qualify for ILR after RESIDING in the UK for 5 years.
To get ILR, one must be 5 years solely working on a Work Permit, or 5 years on Work Permit + HSMP where the last part of the 5 year period MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE HSMP/Tier 1.


From where you get this information? How authentic it is?

Taking my case as an example, I have already lived 2.3 yrs here and Now I have got HSMP approval. If I switch to HSMP now will my WP period be counted for ILR in the new system?

Also, if I fail to qualify for extention after 2 yrs due to further rule changes in the future and in such situation if I moved back to WP again then do you think I will be able to qualify for ILR?

Regards
SK

EdgeHillMole wrote:IMHO, my reading so far of the 2006 rule changes and what they mean:

1. HO intends to apply any new rules, including anything such as a new Tier system, to all existing HSMP applicants WHO NEED TO MAKE ANY EXTENSIONS. We can perhaps also infer they will make the new Tier system apply to extensions for all existing Work Permit holders.

2. HSMP/Tier 1 Visa holders have to RESIDE in the UK at least 5 years (4 years, 11 months) before they can apply for ILR. If an HSMP/Tier 1 visa holder has not been RESIDING in the country for 5 years, they will have to apply for an additional HSMP extension instead of ILR;

3. HSMP/Tier 1 Visa holders who later move from HSMP/Tier 1 to Work Permit/Tier 2 will NOT qualify for ILR after RESIDING in the UK for 5 years.
To get ILR, one must be 5 years solely working on a Work Permit, or 5 years on Work Permit + HSMP where the last part of the 5 year period MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE HSMP/Tier 1.

4. HO can change the rules at any time on extensions without a moment's notice, affecting people applying for extension tomorrow. Therefore, today the rule for Tier 2 may be to obtain X number of points, but tomorrow the rule could change so that only occupations on a "skills-shortage-list" will qualify for a Tier 2 Extension. Another example: HO may change the ILR qualifying period from 5 years UK residence to something really long like 10!

It is for these reasons, especially this last item of hurdles changing to anything at a moment's whim for long-standing, settled UK residents, that we need to support the Judicial Review for HSMP extensions.

save
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Post by save » Thu May 17, 2007 6:17 am

Hi,

I understand about the impact of the new regulations on new applicants for HSMP or people wanting extension. What about those, who are applying for visa just now. If they get visa for two years, could the new policy be a threat to them too. Would they be asked to reapply in jan'08 once the new policy comes up again? any ideas....thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!

simar
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Post by simar » Thu May 17, 2007 8:07 am

save wrote:Hi,

I understand about the impact of the new regulations on new applicants for HSMP or people wanting extension. What about those, who are applying for visa just now. If they get visa for two years, could the new policy be a threat to them too. Would they be asked to reapply in jan'08 once the new policy comes up again? any ideas....thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh Yes, All new applicants who may enter in UK on hsmp visa for 2 year based on present rules better be prepare for changes in 2008.
Anyway now it is clear in FAQ that HO can change rule at any time so all new applicants must have read these FAQ.
In our time (2 years back), in FAQ it used to be written that future new rules change will have no effect present applicants. But now that is not the case. .

rsathish
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Refer this

Post by rsathish » Thu May 17, 2007 9:40 am

From the consultation document prepared for this purpose, it is clear that they are trying to abolish the 80-odd entry routes of UK Immigration and make it simpler.

There would be only 5 Tiers. The ones which would interest us would be 1 & 2.

The workpermit route is being scrapped and will be clubbed with the Tier system.

More focus will be on skill level, work experience, age and english ability.

In a nutshell,
a) If you are employed in the occupation in shortage list - you would come under the Tier 1 (no sponsor or job offer reqd).

b) Your occupation not in the shortage list but you have a job offer - you would normally come under Tier 2. (I guess many HSMP holders & Workpermit holders)

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ ... -migration

The document can be found in this URL. I feel the criteria for selection would more or less be in the same pattern.

LondonBlonde
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Post by LondonBlonde » Thu May 17, 2007 10:26 am

SpiderKing wrote:Hi EdgeHillMole,

Taking my case as an example, I have already lived 2.3 yrs here and Now I have got HSMP approval. If I switch to HSMP now will my WP period be counted for ILR in the new system?

Also, if I fail to qualify for extention after 2 yrs due to further rule changes in the future and in such situation if I moved back to WP again then do you think I will be able to qualify for ILR?

Regards
SK
SpiderKing,

You may be better off staying put under WP scheme. As the rules stand now, you can take time spent on WP with you to upgraded HSMP. However you will lose ALL time on HSMP and WP if you get downgraded to WP from HSMP. In other words, if you fail your HSMP extension, the ILR clock will restart if you are successfull in getting a WP within the 90 days given. If this isn't enough time, or you no longer qualify for a WP, you will be deported.

And, since it's anyone's guess what the new criterea will be next year, you very well may not qualify for extension under the new rules, even though you have been accepted recently.

LondonBlonde

EdgeHillMole
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Post by EdgeHillMole » Thu May 17, 2007 4:06 pm

SpiderKing wrote:Hi EdgeHillMole,

Could you pls clarify following:

3. HSMP/Tier 1 Visa holders who later move from HSMP/Tier 1 to Work Permit/Tier 2 will NOT qualify for ILR after RESIDING in the UK for 5 years.
To get ILR, one must be 5 years solely working on a Work Permit, or 5 years on Work Permit + HSMP where the last part of the 5 year period MUST HAVE BEEN ON THE HSMP/Tier 1.


From where you get this information? How authentic it is?
Unfortunately, I'd have to call the information very authentic. I got it directly from the Home Office websites and documents. Here are my references:

Reference 1: Home Office Border & Immigration Agency, Law and Policy:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/lawand ... ules/part5

Requirements for indefinite leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant (My emphasis):

135G. The requirements for indefinite leave to remain for a person who has been granted leave as a highly skilled migrant are that the applicant:
(i) has spent a continuous period of 5 years lawfully in the United Kingdom, of which the most recent period must have been spent with leave as a highly skilled migrant (in accordance with paragraphs 135A to 135F of these Rules), and the remainder must be made up of leave as a highly skilled migrant, leave as a work permit holder (under paragraphs 128 to 133 of these Rules), or leave as an Innovator (under paragraphs 210A to 210F of these Rules); and


Reference 2: Home Office Highly Skilled Migrant Programme: Guidance for Applicants, Version 4.0, Valid From 30.03.07:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... pril07.pdf

Page 11: Indefinite Leave to Remain (My emphasis)
If you have been granted permission to stay in the United Kingdom as a Highly Skilled Migrant for a total of five years and wish to remain in the United Kingdom on a permanent basis you can apply at the end of the five-year period for permanent residence…In addition to those applicants who are currently participants in the HSMP, and are applying for permanent residence as a Highly Skilled Migrant, can amalgamate leave granted under HSMP with other continuous leave from previous work permit employment or from periods under the Innovator category .


Reference 3: Home Office Work Permits (UK) FLR(HSMP) Valid from 30 March 2007:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... pril07.pdf

Page 20: Applications for Settlement/Indefinite Leave to Remain under HSMP (My emphasis)

Once an individual has spent a period of at least 5 years in the UK under HSMP, they should be eligible to apply for settlement/indefinite leave to remain here. Moreover, in certain circumstances, previous periods of leave to enter/remain in the UK spent within categories other than HSMP may be amalgamated with subsequent periods under HSMP, for the purposes of meeting the qualifying period for settlement

Reference 4: Home Office Border & Immigration Agency, Application for Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK in one of the Employment or Other Categories Listed in this Form Set(0), Version 4/2007:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... (o)may.pdf

Work Permit: If you look at the SET(O) form for ILR, on page 10, the box 8b should be checked if you’ve completed 5 years on work permit.

HSMP: Box 8F on page 11 should be checked if you have 5 years under HSMP or 5 years of Work Permit + HSMP leading to HSMP (“You may have been given leave to enter or remain in other categories leading to settlement before being granted permission to stay under HSMP. If you would like this stay to be considered in connection with your application for indefinite leave to remain, you should provide details of the categories involved and periods of time spent in each of these categoriesâ€
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guly3
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What about people who have already got an HSMP Extension

Post by guly3 » Fri May 18, 2007 10:29 am

Hi,

Could you tell me what would be the effect on me? I came to the country in 2003 on WP, then moved to HSMP in 2005 and then got a 4 years extension in 2006. As it stands now, I am entitled for ILR next year?

Thanks
Gul

EdgeHillMole
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Post by EdgeHillMole » Fri May 18, 2007 10:03 pm

Gul,

As the rules currently stand, and since you moved from WP -> HSMP with no gaps, I'd say you would be OK to apply for ILR next year. :)
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BostUS
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Post by BostUS » Sat May 19, 2007 1:08 am

so it seems like a really bad news for me.

I just got my HSMP petition granted (approved 04/05/2007). My education, experience, etc. in finance/accounting area. So if I move to the UK next month and, say, find a job by the end of August/September, I will lose it next April after the new system is introduced. I am concluding it based on the fact that finance/accounting jobs are not on the skills shortage list.

Am I understanding correctly what is going to happen? Or will they let me finish 2 year term and then when I apply for an extension, I will have to qualify under new rules?

Thank you in advance
BostUS

hsmp.paul
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Post by hsmp.paul » Sat May 19, 2007 10:56 am

As I understand it, Tier 1 is independent of your profession. The points are scored based on 4 criteria as it is presently under HSMP. Tier 2, on the other hand, will be dependent on a job offer and whether that occupation is within a shortage occupation list or not.

Reference: Pages 23 and 26 of http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ ... iew=Binary

guly3
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Thanks

Post by guly3 » Sat May 19, 2007 12:37 pm

Hi EdgeHillMole,

Thanks for your reply. I hope they don't change the rule further :)

Regards
Hamid

EdgeHillMole
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Post by EdgeHillMole » Sat May 19, 2007 1:21 pm

BostUS wrote:My education, experience, etc. in finance/accounting area.
BostUS,

If I were you, I'd look very carefully at UK salary levels for your sector and industry by geographical region. Also look at the cost to live in each geographical region.

I've heard salaries in London are higher than in most other parts of the UK (Partly due to the higher cost of living there). The HO does not make any allowances for geographical region (Or cost of living) when evaluating salaries for points.

As hsmp Paul has said, Tier 1 is independent of your profession, so in order to survive under Tier 1, it becomes extremely important to find a UK location (e.g., London) where you have higher living costs, and therefore a reasonable chance of expecting a high salary.
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guly3
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What the fuss is all about?

Post by guly3 » Sat May 19, 2007 2:10 pm

Have read the document http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/ ... iew=Binary

(Pages 25-26) it's quite evident that Tier 2 migration also leads to settlement. I wonder what the fuss is all about ?

-Gul

EdgeHillMole
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Re: What the fuss is all about?

Post by EdgeHillMole » Sun May 20, 2007 6:05 pm

guly3 wrote:I wonder what the fuss is all about ?
I think quite a few of us are concerned when it comes time for extension we may not be able meet either the Tier 1 or Tier 2 criteria and will face deportation.

A further concern we have with moving from Tier 1 to Tier 2 is that ILR will take up to 9 1/2 years residency instead of the 4-5 years we had previously anticipated under HSMP.

I will try my best to meet the new rules by the time of my next extension. However, if the HO continues to change the rules, I may once again find myself having laboured hard and long towards the wrong target.

Ultimately, I think we're safe to say that the fuss is about trying to reach an ever-changing goal post, which has a habit of suddenly shifting just before one's next extension or ILR application. :shock:
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HSMPGUY
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Post by HSMPGUY » Mon May 21, 2007 7:58 am

EdgeHillMole wrote:Gul,

As the rules currently stand, and since you moved from WP -> HSMP with no gaps, I'd say you would be OK to apply for ILR next year. :)
I have already got the HEMP visa in Feb 2007. and i have to apply for extension in feb 2009.

Is new Tier system will apply on my extension application (FLR)???
If yes then will it be Tier 1 or Tier 2, under which I have to apply for my extension.

Please also explain is there occupational requirement for each tier. means only certian specific occupation can be include in Tier 1. or any one who is eligiable for this tier can apply for this.

UKbound
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Post by UKbound » Mon May 21, 2007 11:17 am

If I read the link correctly (page 23), it basically looks like Tier 1 will be what it is now with the changes made in December. I hope they don't tweak it any more.

It also looks like they're leaving open the possibility that they will reduce ILR for Tier 1 to something less than the 5 years. That would be good, as long as we all still qualify.

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