abc

abc

Hmm, that article is over a year old and far from granting any sort of amnesty the Government has recently announced plans to considerably tighten up the rules for employers employing illegal workers.

In short, the world is just about to get much tougher for illegal immigrants.

abc

Hmm, that article is over a year old and far from granting any sort of amnesty the Government has recently announced plans to considerably tighten up the rules for employers employing illegal workers.

Yes, it's a shame politicians put personal expedient above the best interests of the country.

I havent got patience to read through the entire article.
however I do not support illegal immigrants.
I believe that this country should encourage more people to come here and from all background and race. not only high proffessionals but also people with low wages. however I do not support illegal immigrants.
One should obey the law of the land.

I'm against granting a blanket amnesty to all illegal immigrants and would not vote for any politician who proposed such a move. I don't have too much of a problem if illegals who work and can support themselves have their position legalized, provided they have a clean criminal record, but I'd rather not increase the number of people who live on state benefits at the expense of those who work (in fact I'd rather abolish all state benefits, but that's another story). I think it would be good if people who are granted settlement, or even citizenship, were not eligible for any kind of benefits until they paid a certain sum in taxes/NI contributions, or to have a system like in the US, where each prospective immigrant needs a financial sponsor who has to refund the state for any benefits claimed by the immigrant (at least for a time).

however I do not support illegal immigrants

Here we go again. I've pointed out in other threads that "illegal immigrant" is used for hundreds of thousands of people in this country who have done nothing illegal. But it's a good lynch mob call to arms and works to whip up public frenzy. Politicians use the term because the gullible - like you - fall for the misleading impression it creates.

I'd rather not increase the number of people who live on state benefits at the expense of those who work

That's a perfectly reasonable preference. Except that there are some genuine cases. Very few of them. But they do exist. I agree that the benefit system is too lenient, too cumbersome, and not fair.

One should obey the law of the land.

Some people have one set of morals for others and a different one for themselves.

For the record I, too, am against a blanket amnesty for all those who are genuinely illegal. Even the most avid supporters of a "blanket amnesty" have several exceptions they would name. There will always be categories like terrorists who would not qualify for the amnesty. Nobody in their right minds anywhere is in favour of a blanket amnesty for everybody who's illegal. In fact, a blanket amnesty cannot be done. Further, a blanket amnesty has never even been discussed.

You may want to stop drinking that free Kool Aid.

Jing Wu wrote: "It is inconceivable that these people will all be deported, even in the wildest fantasies of the anti-immigration right. The Immigration Service has more than enough on its hands policing our borders and removing newly arrived failed asylum-seekers. To go round the country finding, detaining and then deporting up to half a million people who don't have regular status simply will not happen."

[/i]The end of the article

If you calculate overstayers, failed asylum seekers, illegal entrants and their children. Add legacy cases which stand at about 450,000 which majority of those cases would be more likely to be turned down because of the threshold required to be meet and change of circumstances after so many years waiting for decision some of them would have started family as well by the time they get round to deal with the case. So the number will be well over 1m. I think what is needed is to put all the facts on the table from both sides of arguments.

It will take over 50 years to deport these people on today figure 18,000 a year at the cost of 11bn. If that was posible. If you think about olympic , Wembley stadium cost that figure would likely to rise massively.

By that time majority would have be able to qualify on long residence rule. (If they are still alive).

Jing Wu wrote: I also agree that there aren't any sign of amnesty at this moment. The reason is quite obvious, no politician want to take risk because it's considered a plitical suiside. But hey, if everyone knows the great advantage about an amnesty, it wouldn't be long before we see the real action.

A lot more people are become aware of the issue. Slowly but surely. Eventually people would have to discuss this issue. By the way there are about 67 Mp so far supporting the regularisation the number is small but will continue to increase. http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetai ... ESSION=885.

Why don't come up with something like what US is trying to do?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/1/hi/w ... 676581.stm

Look I feel bad for these people and I agree they do need some sort of help. But during the course of my LEGAL immigration to the UK I will shell out the best part of 1800-2000 quid just for the right to live and work in the UK on a more permanent basis with my British wife. Why should anyone get a free pass and be allowed to avoid all of the bureaucratic and financial hassle I've dealt with?

patrickmacgill wrote:Look I feel bad for these people and I agree they do need some sort of help. But during the course of my LEGAL immigration to the UK I will shell out the best part of 1800-2000 quid just for the right to live and work in the UK on a more permanent basis with my British wife. Why should anyone get a free pass and be allowed to avoid all of the bureaucratic and financial hassle I've dealt with?

Of course the regularization of course will come with string attached like no serious criminal records, some sort of fine or penalties can be agree say £3000, No allowed to claim benefits for say 3 years or so. The details can be discussed and agreed.

patrickmacgill wrote:Look I feel bad for these people and I agree they do need some sort of help. But during the course of my LEGAL immigration to the UK I will shell out the best part of 1800-2000 quid just for the right to live and work in the UK on a more permanent basis with my British wife. Why should anyone get a free pass and be allowed to avoid all of the bureaucratic and financial hassle I've dealt with?

Ditto except I am not married to a British citizen.

abc

Jing Wu wrote: I have seen english people on benifit yet go to the bookie everyday.

That's not an excuse for you becoming an illegal immigrant or is it?

Jing Wu wrote:I have seen a employer bully a illegal immigrant in real ; I have seen the sham marriage and been asked to do the same...... I have seen the real dark side of this society, but I still believe the justice exist, it's just that the politicians didn't bother to search a proper one for us all.

Who is to be blamed for all this??? Do you mean people coming here illegally should be welcomed with a red carpet???

abc

Jing Wu wrote:

olisun wrote:

Jing Wu wrote: I have seen english people on benifit yet go to the bookie everyday.

That's not an excuse for you becoming an illegal immigrant or is it?

Jing Wu wrote:I have seen a employer bully a illegal immigrant in real ; I have seen the sham marriage and been asked to do the same...... I have seen the real dark side of this society, but I still believe the justice exist, it's just that the politicians didn't bother to search a proper one for us all.

Who is to be blamed for all this??? Do you mean people coming here illegally should be welcomed with a red carpet???

It won't be you who put the carpet down to welcome us, that's for sure. But nobody asked you to welcome us, just like nobody welcomed you when you made your entrance clearence. I am not here to ask you to give me an education as though who should be blamed.
I think it's a very good website and I enjoyed communicating with most of the poeple here.

Well you are putting your case forward by giving examples which are in no way related to you becoming illegal or are they?

Jing Wu,

Yes I do sympathise with you and your position.

But you must understand that on average most legal immigrants have paid +/- £4000 over five years, a very high price to live and work legally.

So you can understand the resentment towards illegal's and rightfully so!

olisun wrote:

Jing Wu wrote:

olisun wrote:

Jing Wu wrote: I have seen english people on benifit yet go to the bookie everyday.

That's not an excuse for you becoming an illegal immigrant or is it?

Jing Wu wrote:I have seen a employer bully a illegal immigrant in real ; I have seen the sham marriage and been asked to do the same...... I have seen the real dark side of this society, but I still believe the justice exist, it's just that the politicians didn't bother to search a proper one for us all.

Who is to be blamed for all this??? Do you mean people coming here illegally should be welcomed with a red carpet???

It won't be you who put the carpet down to welcome us, that's for sure. But nobody asked you to welcome us, just like nobody welcomed you when you made your entrance clearence. I am not here to ask you to give me an education as though who should be blamed.
I think it's a very good website and I enjoyed communicating with most of the poeple here.

Well you are putting your case forward by giving examples which are in no way related to you becoming illegal or are they?

Yeah, I don't buy the whole 'benefit scroungers' argument immigrants of all statuses use. At the end of the day everyone, even The Sun (we love it!) hates these people and want rid of them, and think the system is totally abused. We all dislike them so...

Also, this argument about amnesties and immigrants...seems like old win in new bottle. We keep going back to the same issues as the other 3 or 4 or 5 other threads. At the end of the day no political party wants to grant or even support an amnesty. The US is a totally different issues because a lot of these 'illegals' or 'overstayers' or whatever actually have US-citizen children who cannot be deported from their own country so that is why they are more likely to be allowed to stay. Here, meanwhile, not all of these people's kids are British (yet), even if they have 'ties' it is not 'strong' enough.

Anyhow, no point discussing something when there is less impetus. I have always argued that it is not a dichotomy- either deport all or regularise all (who qualify), but just leave them as 'illegal' or 'overstayers' because, at the end of the day, they are working in industries and sectors who need cheap labour, and with things like minimum wage, minimum holiday or pensions, there's no way some economies in the UK can survive. And I really do think that is the stance of the UK, whether or not they want to admit it. Think of the cleaners, for example, or those cockle pickers...Every country has illegals/overstayers, even 'poor' countries like Thailand, China, which are more developed than their neighbours Cambodia, Laos. They are there to fill a certain vaccuum, and governments the world over (except maybe Australia! ) tend to turn a blind eye as long as they are kept working and quiet. When one commits a murder then you stamp that out quick, or when one is on benefits then you stop it quick, show the others you're serious but don't actually arrest anyone (or many) when someone reports an overstayer..just send them a text message!

That is what happened in some ways in the US. You can't miss the 10m+ odd 'illegals' and 'overstayers', yet the government only paid attention when they started to DEMAND things...they have a voice! Then they thought 'wow these illegals are getting too cocky..let's kick em out!', but of course they helped the US economy grow, helped businesses stay afloat, but now that they want to stay legally is only when they are concerned about them. Just goes to show what governments are like, really.

For more about this, we might want to go back to that other long thread?

But you must understand that on average most legal immigrants have paid +/- £4000 over five years, a very high price to live and work legally.

One of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard. Are you saying that "+/-£4000" it's a "high" price? It's peanuts! Or are you saying that because you've paid tax (?) illegals shouldn't be put on the system and be made to pay taxes too?

Or are you saying that all "illegal immigrants" pay less than you? I'm an undocumented migrant and I can assure you businesses I own pay shovel-loads more tax than a large majority of native British people.

That's not an excuse for you becoming an illegal immigrant or is it?

I don't believe he's making excuses. He may be pointing out the moral background. It's ironic that a country as morally bereft as this one, a country where the average person is more likely to talk to his neighbour than help him, a country where taking care of self takes precedence over any social, community, moral or even familial obligations... has such a large population of people preaching to others about not doing anything illegal. Even when many (admittedly not all) of those "illegal immigrants" have broken no law in becoming "illegal" (like children of asylum seekers).

OL7MAX,

Well if £4000 is peanuts to you,as you call yourself a undocumented migrant ( in other words illgal)

Maybe you should pay for all my costs to became legal!

Why should I pay and you get away with living in UK illegally without your entrance fees?

Get real, dont think you are the only person in the UK who is taxed at the top end.

Maybe you should pay for all my costs to became legal

Most undocumented migrants would be happy to do that. Give them a PAYE number and start collecting the installments. But it would be even better if you took some pride in paying for it yourself.

dont think you are the only person in the UK who is taxed at the top end

Do grow up! The point is that it does not automatically follow that if someone is not documented they are paying less than the quoted £4,000.

in other words illgal

If I have done anything illegal to get into my current position I'd happily spend the rest of my life in jail. It is ignorance that causes many people see "illegal immigrant" and think someone who jumps the ferry at Calais i.e. intentionally breaks into the UK.

OL7MAX,

Your arrogance leaves me cold, how dare you tell me to grow up!

OL7MAX wrote: If I have done anything illegal to get into my current position I'd happily spend the rest of my life in jail. It is ignorance that causes many people see "illegal immigrant" and think someone who jumps the ferry at Calais i.e. intentionally breaks into the UK.

And have you made any attempts to sort out your status, like for e.g. going back home and sorting out your visa?

OL7MAX wrote:
Here we go again. I've pointed out in other threads that "illegal immigrant" is used for hundreds of thousands of people in this country who have done nothing illegal. But it's a good lynch mob call to arms and works to whip up public frenzy. Politicians use the term because the gullible - like you - fall for the misleading impression it creates.

Sorry didnt read the the thread so can you please cut and paste the summary here by what do you mean by "illegal immigrant" is used for hundreds of thousands of people in this country who have done nothing illegal

Illeagal is always illeagel.
If you are btalkking of people like tabloid who calls even Doctors and IT proffessionals as illeagal then I pity on them but technically an illeagal is illeagal.
Right that there are few people who have to leave country to save their lives and have to come illeagaly I will have sympathy with them but understand that theer are thousand time more people come with that excuse while they have no threat in their country.

However I might be missing your point totally apologies for that but if you could write the summary again here we can discuss on that.
End of the day it is individual's view isnt it?

And have you made any attempts to sort out your status, like for e.g. going back home and sorting out your visa?

LOL, for lots of you people it really is very black and white, isn't it? You assume that any "illegal immigrant" can just go back if he wanted. Part of the problem with being undocumented is ...being undocumented.

To answer your question directly, olisun: Yes. For the first two years I was here I worked full time to try to get out of this country. And I can't do it easily now either. I've been married to a British citizen for a decade now and if I could have gone back I could have become "regularised" a long time ago.