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Director's salary and investment

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

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helpingperson
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Director's salary and investment

Post by helpingperson » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:09 am

Hi

I know Tier 1 Entrepreneur Director's can be on PAYE in their own business. Their jobs won't count towards job creation requirements.

But will the expense of directors salary count towards investment?


I have spent some time on guidance but can not find any source on this.

Could you please reply on this and with some source if possible.

Thank you.

entrepreneur123
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Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:12 am

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by entrepreneur123 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:16 am

Applicants own salary/dividends/wages etc do not count towards business expenditure that UKBA consider. I phoned UKBA few weeks before, and case worker clearly said to me that you are allowed to take salary but it will not count business expenditure.


helpingperson wrote:Hi

I know Tier 1 Entrepreneur Director's can be on PAYE in their own business. Their jobs won't count towards job creation requirements.

But will the expense of directors salary count towards investment?


I have spent some time on guidance but can not find any source on this.

Could you please reply on this and with some source if possible.

Thank you.

helpingperson
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Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:13 am

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by helpingperson » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:30 am

Hi Entrepreneur123,

Thank you for your response.

UKBA has clearly stated about employment creation. In my view, they have no where stated that director salary won't be counted towards investment.
When you start a new business, how can you exclude director salary and expenses out of investment, it is coming out of that investment, business is paying for it so why it it not part of investment? It makes no sense to me.

Regarding your view conversation, I have many times experienced with UKBA phone agents, everyone has its own version of information.

I would appreciate if someone has any links, some proof where it says director's salaries won't be counted towards investment.


Thank you.

entrepreneur123
Senior Member
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:12 am

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by entrepreneur123 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:50 am

In my case the person over the phone sent email to case worker and then he phoned me after one week once case worker verfied this information. Also read following paragraph from policy guidance.

If you already have leave as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) migrant we may curtail your leave if the
funds you have used to apply cease to be available to you (unless you have spent them in the
establishment or running of your business or businesses). ‘Spent’ excludes spending on your
own remuneration.



helpingperson wrote:Hi Entrepreneur123,

Thank you for your response.

UKBA has clearly stated about employment creation. In my view, they have no where stated that director salary won't be counted towards investment.
When you start a new business, how can you exclude director salary and expenses out of investment, it is coming out of that investment, business is paying for it so why it it not part of investment? It makes no sense to me.

Regarding your view conversation, I have many times experienced with UKBA phone agents, everyone has its own version of information.

I would appreciate if someone has any links, some proof where it says director's salaries won't be counted towards investment.


Thank you.

helpingperson
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Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:13 am

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by helpingperson » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:00 am

Hi

You seem to me right now. I did not find this but you came up with source from guidance.

Thank you.

samaygrg
Senior Member
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:12 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by samaygrg » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:14 am

Yeah, agreed, that's the case.
entrepreneur123 wrote:Applicants own salary/dividends/wages etc do not count towards business expenditure that UKBA consider. I phoned UKBA few weeks before, and case worker clearly said to me that you are allowed to take salary but it will not count business expenditure.


helpingperson wrote:Hi

I know Tier 1 Entrepreneur Director's can be on PAYE in their own business. Their jobs won't count towards job creation requirements.

But will the expense of directors salary count towards investment?


I have spent some time on guidance but can not find any source on this.

Could you please reply on this and with some source if possible.

Thank you.

Satinder25
Junior Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:19 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by Satinder25 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:48 pm

Hi all,
Where can we do directors loan agreement and how much does it cost.
Passion

Dasistfact
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Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by Dasistfact » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:20 pm

Hello, would be great if you share your views.

In order to qualify for extension we need to invest 50/200 000 GBP into our companies. How do you think is it possible to invest let's say 250 000 into the company and take ie 30 000 out of it as a PAYE salary? Own renumeration is excluded from the investment, so it's 250(investment)-30(own renumeration that is excluded)=220.
Will these actions meet investment requirement? How do you think?

cancerian
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Posts: 84
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Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by cancerian » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:10 am

Guys I think the point 'money already spent' in policy guidance is referring for intial application for Tier 1 Entp; and as people who will apply for their extension theer will be different set of rules for extension applications, i think.
So in my view you can claim the directors salary in extension applicaiton as an investement.
As you can see policy guidance for enterpereur visa there is different section and in that section i have not seen any thing like this.
And as enterpreneur if you are setting up a business you as a director of a company is investing in UK economy by giving your expertise via your business why cant you claim it as an investment?

Any arguments ?

attahaas
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Location: LONDON, UK
India

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by attahaas » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:47 am

cancerian wrote:Guys I think the point 'money already spent' in policy guidance is referring for intial application for Tier 1 Entp; and as people who will apply for their extension theer will be different set of rules for extension applications, i think.
So in my view you can claim the directors salary in extension applicaiton as an investement.
As you can see policy guidance for enterpereur visa there is different section and in that section i have not seen any thing like this.
And as enterpreneur if you are setting up a business you as a director of a company is investing in UK economy by giving your expertise via your business why cant you claim it as an investment?

Any arguments ?
What kind of logic is that? Why should anyone worry about "how to spend" for INITIAL application, i.e., even before getting the visa? Whatever the guidance says about "investment and spending" is AFTER YOU GET THE VISA, and that means it is for extension.

Technically, if you claim salary as investment then it is just saying you are taking your money back in a different route, which effectively negates that amount of money as investment. Also, if it is allowed as investment everyone will "spend" the entire 50K/200K on director's salary. The expertise should generate REVENUE from outside INTO your company, that's how it is valued and not what you think your expertise should be paid by YOUR OWN COMPANY. And the UK gov has a nice reward for such revenue if it is over GBP5 Million by giving ILR in 3 years.

Moreover, only those salaries that are given to "settled" people are considered as investment, and that rules you out because you are not a settled person yet under this visa. That's how the UK gov expects you to help the UK economy.
•12-Feb-2015: Applied online (Team), 200K, India
•13-Feb-2015: Submitted documents and biometrics
•25-Feb-2015: Received email saying that they need more time
•03-Mar-2015: Interviewed separately
•05-Mar-2105: Received docs and passport with visa stamped!

MTZ510
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Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:24 am
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by MTZ510 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:48 pm

attahaas wrote:
cancerian wrote:Guys I think the point 'money already spent' in policy guidance is referring for intial application for Tier 1 Entp; and as people who will apply for their extension theer will be different set of rules for extension applications, i think.
So in my view you can claim the directors salary in extension applicaiton as an investement.
As you can see policy guidance for enterpereur visa there is different section and in that section i have not seen any thing like this.
And as enterpreneur if you are setting up a business you as a director of a company is investing in UK economy by giving your expertise via your business why cant you claim it as an investment?

Any arguments ?
What kind of logic is that? Why should anyone worry about "how to spend" for INITIAL application, i.e., even before getting the visa? Whatever the guidance says about "investment and spending" is AFTER YOU GET THE VISA, and that means it is for extension.

Technically, if you claim salary as investment then it is just saying you are taking your money back in a different route, which effectively negates that amount of money as investment. Also, if it is allowed as investment everyone will "spend" the entire 50K/200K on director's salary. The expertise should generate REVENUE from outside INTO your company, that's how it is valued and not what you think your expertise should be paid by YOUR OWN COMPANY. And the UK gov has a nice reward for such revenue if it is over GBP5 Million by giving ILR in 3 years.

Moreover, only those salaries that are given to "settled" people are considered as investment, and that rules you out because you are not a settled person yet under this visa. That's how the UK gov expects you to help the UK economy.
Not sure but i also share the same opinion of cancerian..
below is what i wrote on other thread few months back

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1087859
MTZ510 wrote:Read the words highlighted in red, it says "the funds must continue to be available to you until they are spent for business"
Now my understanding is that for extension you have to spend all funds so the case of availability of funds does not arise. Again its my opinion.

suvalike wrote:Thanks for your reply.
I am already on tier 1 entrepreneur. My extension is due in march 2016.
Why do you think that part is not related to the extension applicants.
please elaborate.
Thanks
suvalike wrote:Dear folks,
I want some clarification about the following questions.Please do advise me.Thanks in anticipation.
Q1: In the Guidance it says:
The funds must continue to be available to you until they are spent for the purposes of your business or businesses. ‘Available to you’ means that the
funds must be in one of the following:
(1) in your own possession, means in personal account..I showed funds abroad in my own account.
(2) in the financial accounts of a UK incorporated business of which you are the director, or means in my Uk Business account.I have 10k at the moment and rest is still back home.
(3) available from the third party or parties named in your application (if applicable).

‘Spent’ by your business’ excludes spending on all of the following:

(1) your own remuneration, what it means ?
(2) buying the business from a previous owner, where the money goes to that previous
owner rather than into the business,
(3) investing in other businesses, and
(4) any spending which is not directly for the purpose of establishing or running your own
business or businesses.
Always help others..... it always come back to you.
Even if i know the answer ... i have this habit of confirming from others..

GLL
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Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by GLL » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:37 pm

MTZ510 wrote:
attahaas wrote:
cancerian wrote:Guys I think the point 'money already spent' in policy guidance is referring for intial application for Tier 1 Entp; and as people who will apply for their extension theer will be different set of rules for extension applications, i think.
So in my view you can claim the directors salary in extension applicaiton as an investement.
As you can see policy guidance for enterpereur visa there is different section and in that section i have not seen any thing like this.
And as enterpreneur if you are setting up a business you as a director of a company is investing in UK economy by giving your expertise via your business why cant you claim it as an investment?

Any arguments ?
What kind of logic is that? Why should anyone worry about "how to spend" for INITIAL application, i.e., even before getting the visa? Whatever the guidance says about "investment and spending" is AFTER YOU GET THE VISA, and that means it is for extension.

Technically, if you claim salary as investment then it is just saying you are taking your money back in a different route, which effectively negates that amount of money as investment. Also, if it is allowed as investment everyone will "spend" the entire 50K/200K on director's salary. The expertise should generate REVENUE from outside INTO your company, that's how it is valued and not what you think your expertise should be paid by YOUR OWN COMPANY. And the UK gov has a nice reward for such revenue if it is over GBP5 Million by giving ILR in 3 years.

Moreover, only those salaries that are given to "settled" people are considered as investment, and that rules you out because you are not a settled person yet under this visa. That's how the UK gov expects you to help the UK economy.
Not sure but i also share the same opinion of cancerian..
below is what i wrote on other thread few months back

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1087859
MTZ510 wrote:Read the words highlighted in red, it says "the funds must continue to be available to you until they are spent for business"
Now my understanding is that for extension you have to spend all funds so the case of availability of funds does not arise. Again its my opinion.

suvalike wrote:Thanks for your reply.
I am already on tier 1 entrepreneur. My extension is due in march 2016.
Why do you think that part is not related to the extension applicants.
please elaborate.
Thanks
suvalike wrote:Dear folks,
I want some clarification about the following questions.Please do advise me.Thanks in anticipation.
Q1: In the Guidance it says:
The funds must continue to be available to you until they are spent for the purposes of your business or businesses. ‘Available to you’ means that the
funds must be in one of the following:
(1) in your own possession, means in personal account..I showed funds abroad in my own account.
(2) in the financial accounts of a UK incorporated business of which you are the director, or means in my Uk Business account.I have 10k at the moment and rest is still back home.
(3) available from the third party or parties named in your application (if applicable).

‘Spent’ by your business’ excludes spending on all of the following:

(1) your own remuneration, what it means ?
(2) buying the business from a previous owner, where the money goes to that previous
owner rather than into the business,
(3) investing in other businesses, and
(4) any spending which is not directly for the purpose of establishing or running your own
business or businesses.
It is one of the cases where UKBA has been rather clear in their guidance.
As it stands at the moment "spent" for the purpose of your business excludes remuneration of the applicant. As there is no other rule to the contrary it will certainly apply for the extension applicants.

I don't see why there are issues with this point. If your business is making profits you can take remuneration as dividends.
However you can not just set up the company, transfer £200k to the account, do nothing and pay most of this amount to yourself as a salary. This is not what this visa is designed for.

MTZ510
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Posts: 312
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Location: Leeds, United Kingdom

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by MTZ510 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:58 pm

GLL wrote:It is one of the cases where UKBA has been rather clear in their guidance.
As it stands at the moment "spent" for the purpose of your business excludes remuneration of the applicant. As there is no other rule to the contrary it will certainly apply for the extension applicants.

I don't see why there are issues with this point. If your business is making profits you can take remuneration as dividends.
However you can not just set up the company, transfer £200k to the account, do nothing and pay most of this amount to yourself as a salary. This is not what this visa is designed for.
These words were not present in the guide or immigration rules in April 2013 when i got the visa, do you think this SPENT rule applies for extension candidates who got visa at that time ?
Always help others..... it always come back to you.
Even if i know the answer ... i have this habit of confirming from others..

GLL
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Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by GLL » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:00 pm

MTZ510 wrote:
GLL wrote:It is one of the cases where UKBA has been rather clear in their guidance.
As it stands at the moment "spent" for the purpose of your business excludes remuneration of the applicant. As there is no other rule to the contrary it will certainly apply for the extension applicants.

I don't see why there are issues with this point. If your business is making profits you can take remuneration as dividends.
However you can not just set up the company, transfer £200k to the account, do nothing and pay most of this amount to yourself as a salary. This is not what this visa is designed for.
These words were not present in the guide or immigration rules in April 2013 when i got the visa, do you think this SPENT rule applies for extension candidates who got visa at that time ?

The words "money must remain available to the applicant until such time as it is spent for the purposes of his business" were in the rules at the time you received your visa. They didn't make any changes, they just clarified what is meant by "spent".
In my view this applies to everyone who obtained his visa and will apply for extension. If you have taken salary from the money you invested I suggest that you invest additional amount equivalent to the salary you have taken.

MTZ510
Member of Standing
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:24 am
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by MTZ510 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:51 pm

GLL wrote: The words "money must remain available to the applicant until such time as it is spent for the purposes of his business" were in the rules at the time you received your visa. They didn't make any changes, they just clarified what is meant by "spent".
In my view this applies to everyone who obtained his visa and will apply for extension. If you have taken salary from the money you invested I suggest that you invest additional amount equivalent to the salary you have taken.
I am not worried about Directors Remuneration i have not taken any but i am worried about buying an existing leasehold business where i have paid the Good Will. No where in the immigration rules and guide at that time says that i can't buy an existing business where money is paid to the owner of the business.
Always help others..... it always come back to you.
Even if i know the answer ... i have this habit of confirming from others..

GLL
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Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Director's salary and investment

Post by GLL » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:09 pm

MTZ510 wrote:
GLL wrote: The words "money must remain available to the applicant until such time as it is spent for the purposes of his business" were in the rules at the time you received your visa. They didn't make any changes, they just clarified what is meant by "spent".
In my view this applies to everyone who obtained his visa and will apply for extension. If you have taken salary from the money you invested I suggest that you invest additional amount equivalent to the salary you have taken.
I am not worried about Directors Remuneration i have not taken any but i am worried about buying an existing leasehold business where i have paid the Good Will. No where in the immigration rules and guide at that time says that i can't buy an existing business where money is paid to the owner of the business.
I understand. We are clarifying UKBA position on this, I will post it for everyone here ones we have some clarity. My view is if you purchased the leasehold business before the clarification was introduced they should accept your investment, as you were compliant with the rule. However if you did so after they introduced the clarification you may have issues with this. However UKBA may have a different view on this.
In the mean time I wouldn't advise entrepreneurs to apply for visa with business plan of spending £200k on purchasing leasehold businesses from previous owners.

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