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Point system for citizenship???

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Papafaith
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Point system for citizenship???

Post by Papafaith » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:42 am

An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

RobinLondon
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Post by RobinLondon » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:29 am

This is probably going to be a big deal. Watch this space.

Siggi
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Mr Brown & Mr Byrne would like your blood too!

Post by Siggi » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:11 am

Last night the BBC announced that Mr Brown,Ms Kelly & Mr Byrne are now proposing further requirements for migrants wishing to become British.

Ideas like, volunteering for civic duties or substantial new investment into the UK or maybe donations to Mr Browns Club too.?
This is all under the banner of "Clearer fairer path for new migrants to earn citizenship"

Guess what again, non EU citizens are the target whilst all time they(HO) talk of mass migration from Eastern Europeans putting strain on NHS, schooling, housing.

Yes I think we need to brace ourselves for a raft of new hoops and costs, before we are allowed to join that exclusive club of EC citizens

Rog
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Post by Rog » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:18 am

The ministers are always talking about schools under strain from non English speaking children, these are mainly children of East European migrants, whereas HSMP holders and their family members are capable of speaking in English. We will have to continue to pay the price of opening the doors to European Nationals even though deporting HSMP visa holders will do nothing to solve the Home Office's immigration problems caused from other mass migrations.

AlexCh
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Post by AlexCh » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:50 am

I completely do not understand how making getting citizenship more difficult and forcing people staying on ILR will help to decrease the load on schools, NHS, etc?

It will just a create a huge numbers of non-citizens permanently living in the UK - it only will make problems worse.

olisun
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Post by olisun » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:57 am

AlexCh wrote:I completely do not understand how making getting citizenship more difficult and forcing people staying on ILR will help to decrease the load on schools, NHS, etc?

It will just a create a huge numbers of non-citizens permanently living in the UK - it only will make problems worse.
Looks like the next step will be to introduce "fees" at every level for anybody not having BC.

This was expected considering the "immigrants" have taken the liberty to take the govt. / HO to court on almost every decision the govt. / HO makes and the govt. / HO are finding ways to give it back.

It will interesting to see who takes the govt. / HO to court this time...

sowhat
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Post by sowhat » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:32 pm

I wonder if they manage to introduce it before next spring. I am going to apply for the British citizenship next May.

Christophe
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Post by Christophe » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:22 pm

AlexCh wrote:It will just a create a huge numbers of non-citizens permanently living in the UK - it only will make problems worse.
This is something that needs to be borne in mind. Making a citizenship relatively inaccessible (by whatever means) can, of course, produce the situation where people have their home in a country but find themselves unable to become citizens of it. This can be particularly true if the children of parents who are permanent residents are not citizens at birth - as is the case in a number of European countries, but not the UK - because you then have a possible situation where there can be generations of people residing perfectly legally in the country without becoming citizens.

Anyway, none of what is being reported at the moment is government policy or even proposed policy: it is just politicians talking, notably in the run-up to a change of leadership in the government. Something might well come of it all, but it is unlikely to be along the precise lines being talked of now. One thing that one could hope that the past 10 years have taught the government is that, when it comes to legislative changes, the idea of "less haste, more speed" is usually appropriate. Have they learned that lesson? Who can say...

maveli62
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Post by maveli62 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:58 pm

Christophe wrote: Making a citizenship relatively inaccessible (by whatever means) can, of course, produce the situation where people have their home in a country but find themselves unable to become citizens of it.
This could be a blessing for all the countries from people are migrating to UK. Once the migrants to UK feel that they are never going to get citizenship, they will start sending more of their earnings back to their home country. This is exactly what happens in the middle east Oil rich countries. Most of them don't offer citizenship and everyone works there send all their earning back to their home countries, boosting the local economy in their home country.

On the other hand it is un-ethical from the UK government side to attract people to UK while they are young and econimically active and then send them out when they reach their pension age.

But unfortunately the only way to richness is to exploit someone else

Christophe
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Post by Christophe » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:16 pm

maveli62 wrote:But unfortunately the only way to richness is to exploit someone else
I think that's probably a little harsh and cynical - at a personal level, anyway!

maveli62
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Post by maveli62 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:29 pm

Christophe wrote: I think that's probably a little harsh and cynical - at a personal level, anyway!
Agree. intentionally did so

patrickmacgill
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Post by patrickmacgill » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:35 pm

I read that these proposals will include EU migrants, even ones in the country for a couple of months. I'm sure these volunteering schemes and " good citizen" contracts will all be accompanied by a hefty fee that will double every two or three years ( see visa fees). Hopefully these volunteering schemes involve spending my bank holidays picking up rubbish in Peckham or learning British History ( even though I have a Masters in it). Meanwhile illegal and unskilled migrants will continue to arrive and make no effort to integrate regardless of what Ruth Kelly says or does.

global gypsy
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Trashy news

Post by global gypsy » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:20 pm

I can visualize the news item: "Man denied citizenship because he didn't dispose of his trash properly."
:D
Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans

tvt
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Post by tvt » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:45 pm

It all boils down to fees ... more fees.
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<<<N. N. - G. N.>>>

British
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Post by British » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:26 pm

I liked this comment from one guy who posted his comment in the times online :-) in regard to this news item as link referenced in the OP's post above.

Of course, he is referring to British passport here, but i am sure he did mean British citizenship though! :-)

Anyway, his view point is absolutely a gem!
So the government intend to make it harder for law-abiding immigrants to get British passports but will continue to hand them out freely to the drunken scum who drag down the name of Britain abroad, just because they were born here of British parents.
I would prefer to see well-behaved Poles and Lithuanians having British passports. Have them taken off the people wearing Union Flag t-shirts fighting and throwing up on the streets of Majorca and Ibiza.
Well said! Mr! :-)

RobinLondon
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The document on the points system for citizenship

Post by RobinLondon » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:25 pm

Here is the link to A Common Place, the document authored by Ruth Kelly and Liam Byrne that addresses their ideas about further immigration and citizenship reform:

http://fabians.org.uk/fsblob/174.pdf

maveli62
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Post by maveli62 » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:16 pm

After all the new proposal is not at all bad

Page 35 of the above document

If a highly skilled migrant proved to be a great
success in the labour market (demonstrated by high wages and
therefore larger tax payments) or could show they set up a
flourishing business, or brought into the UK substantial new
investment, they might earn credits at a rate that would allow them
to settle after two years, instead of the five years we set as standard.

RobinLondon
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Post by RobinLondon » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:21 pm

Then you should by all means comment on this in the related consultation on the issue.

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/6 ... nsultation

Siggi
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Post by Siggi » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:40 pm

Quote:
If a highly skilled migrant proved to be a great
success in the labour market (demonstrated by high wages and
therefore larger tax payments) or could show they set up a
flourishing business, or brought into the UK substantial new
investment, they might earn credits at a rate that would allow them
to settle after two years, instead of the five years we set as standard.

So if you pay more to the HO/Goverment you can become a BC in two years and if you make a even bigger donation a Lord too!

This is a disgrace and typically Labour Party bull!

maveli62
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Post by maveli62 » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:00 pm

Siggi wrote: This is a disgrace and typically Labour Party bull!
I beg to differ. I do like the new proposed rule. Other than genuine asylum seekers all others seeking to settle in must be valued on the economic/cultural or other positive contribution (sports,academic etc) they can make to their new home. This will result in the HO treating people on their merits rather than the current blanket treatment HO is providing where everyone is treated like an illegal immigrant.

Siggi
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Post by Siggi » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:24 pm

Maveli62
Sure the new proposals may have some merits, but the idea of some people becomming BC before other on grounds of financial contributions is outrageous!

Rog
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Post by Rog » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:52 pm

This is just an extension of peerage for cash. The Labour product portfolio is expanded to include the fast tracking of the maroon passport for a price too. Meanwhile the East Europeans, Asylum Seekers etc will continue to come in unabated as they are not affected by these proposals.

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